Expansion of gocivilairpatrol.com

Started by jimmydeanno, October 01, 2008, 03:25:26 AM

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FlexCoder

gocivilairpatrol.com - appearances can be deceiving, has anyone looked at the view source....whoever they paid to develop the site, has no clue about code syntax.   They are lucky they are even picked up by Google or any search engine since it isn't even coded correctly.   It violates several key coding rules that Google has implemented for sites.     GoCivil... has 2,660 external links according to Google data, meaning it is considered a "virgin" in regard to other websites.  cap.gov isnt coded correctly as well only achieving 36,200 external links in its lifetime - quite bad for a major organization of 60+ years.   GoCivil...is  basically a typical, premade template with some flashy graphics.  It mainly promotes CAP and repeats the same boring message that CAP has been conveying for decades.  It is typical early 2000's style and look.   It is definitely a step up from previous interfaces but still outdated though.  Just my two cents worth.  I dont mean to offend anyone since this is my first post but been in CAP for 24 years, as a Cadet & as a Senior.    I just wish CAP would get with the times.

A.Member

#21
Quote from: KyCAP on October 19, 2008, 09:10:51 PM
If the plan is to really "park" cap.gov from the domain perspective that is a HUGE mistake.  Having over a decade in website design and software engineering experience - I can tell you that there are some big bucks exchanged to get three letter domain names like "CAP.GOV".    I have one client that was offered $250,000 for their 4 letter .com domain.   "gocivilairpatrol.com" as the ONLY domain is a NO NO.   

Just try to tell some where to go on the phone "Well Mr. newbie cap member "go to ' gocivilairpatrol.com'".   Mr. New says.. "Where do I go?  Civil Air Patrol.com? Say what?".

Now, if the plan is to keep cap.gov for member only and use gocivilairpatrol.com for the recruiting site, then I can buy that.  But....   .COM anything to a government agency and you're no longer one of us you commercial site operator vermin.

With the transition of the cap.gov domains mail host (MX) record to GMAIL and Google, all members could easily be given cap.gov email accounts.   Then you have the CAP.GOV email address looking snappy and professional but then the www.gocivilairpatrol.com domain.

If it aint broke, then don't fix it.

;)

think army.mil (day to day work) and goarmy.com (please see our recruiter and sign up)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.mil

http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc920

Agree x1000.   

Hopefully someone at NER can relay this concern - the discussion needs to start somewhere.  This is very poor site management and obtaining a .gov address takes a little more effort.  National now has official, public sites with the following top-level domain names:
   .gov (appropriate use)
   .org (appropriate use)
   .com (while technically not incorrect, it's not the best choice)
So, of the three, we're moving to the one that is most marginal?  ???  In addition, how about developing a standardized approach?  Will Wing sites also become .com? 

NHQ needs to re-evaluate this change pronto - stop and actually put some thought in this.  There are plenty of members they can leverage that have a great deal of knowledge on this stuff.   NHQ also needs to start communicating intent/vision.
"For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

heliodoc

^^^^^

Better get it together CAP

If you lose forms and pubs thru your myriad of being "web proficient" you are going to lose precious safety of flight items

get ahold of yourselves for the sake of the rest of the apprx 60,000

KyCAP

Trying to remain constructive..  if anyone from CAP NHQ actually lurks.. 

If you receive Federal Funds then your website also has to be Section 508 compliant for accessibility for the handicapped.   In otherwords, images in the page have to have tags attached to them that let software packages assist with navigation.

If you use this free tool: http://www.contentquality.com/ then you see that www.gocivilairpatrol.com fails repeatedly.

I suggest they purchase a professional testing tool: http://www-01.ibm.com/software/rational/offerings/websecurity/

But, I am just a volunteer.

Cheers.

Maj. Russ Hensley, CAP
IC-2 plus all the rest. :)
Kentucky Wing

NEBoom

Quote from: EMT-83 on October 18, 2008, 06:32:06 PM
At the NER conference today, it was announced that cap.gov is going away, and would be redirected to gocivilairpatrol.com.

No date or explanation was given, but you will notice that some pages at cap.gov already state they are no longer being updated, and refer to the other site.

Oh Jeez... Here comes yet another decal change for the vehicles...  ::)
Lt Col Dan Kirwan, CAP
Nebraska Wing

DC

This is absurd. It was my understanding that gocivilairpatrol.com was supposed to be a recruiting site, much like airforce.com, while cap.gov would remain the publicly visible site more geared toward members, like af.mil.

To me it makes much more sense to do this, we streamline the recruiting effort, making it so that prospective members don't have to dig through tons of stuff to find what they are looking for, similar to the new recruiting materials NHQ has been producing.

www.cap.gov could certainly under go some cleanup, and reorganization, but they should not get rid of it. (Not to mention, how many of us spent months trying to figure out cap.gov!)

I hate it when national seems to be in a state of not knowing what it is doing, and is not communicating with the membership. Has anyone seen this in a NB Agenda?

Pylon

Quote from: DC on October 21, 2008, 11:20:53 AM
This is absurd. It was my understanding that gocivilairpatrol.com was supposed to be a recruiting site, much like airforce.com, while cap.gov would remain the publicly visible site more geared toward members, like af.mil.

It was supposed to be only a recruiting site.  But how many times has it been made repeatedly clear to us that CAP NHQ has no clue whatsoever in the entire universe how to do their jobs?

Making a separate recruiting website like GoCivilAirPatrol.com was the first glimmer of hope that somebody at NHQ "got it".  Merging the member website off of our prolific and long-standing cap.gov domain into the poorly designed recruiting website template not only reassured me that NHQ still has no clue, but also was one of the dumbest moves I've seen since we switched our van decals and flight suit patches four times.


The worst part of the whole ordeal?  NHQ keeps updating and making new marketing materials without ever having established a brand identity for Civil Air Patrol.  Our brand identity is so seriously fractured and non-existent that every marketing effort is like a shot in the dark, isolated by itself instead of a group of coordinated, matching efforts which support and build off each other.  Every time NHQ invests money in time into developing a new website, a new brochure, a new advertisement (ha!), a new vehicle graphic, a new logo (we're up to about 8 or 9 CAP logos now by my count), without having first taken a step back and created a central brand identity and coordinated communications plan -- then that money and time is wasted.  Might as well not bother do it at all.

All I can do is shake my head and sob silently while NHQ flies CAP straight into terrain.
Michael F. Kieloch, Maj, CAP

NC Hokie

I share many of the sentiments expressed in this thread but I truly doubt that anyone at NHQ is aware of our concerns.  Is there any way we can get this info into the appropriate hands at NHQ?  Posting here in hopes that they might happen to see this thread really isn't an appropriate means of communicating this information.
NC Hokie, Lt Col, CAP

Graduated Squadron Commander
All Around Good Guy

CAP Producer

Actually there are some senior CAP PA folks that see this info and are working on addressing your concerns.

I ask that you work with your Wing and Region PAO's. We are in a position to influence the leadership and NHQ/PA. We need your input not only to your wing and Region PA's but on boards like this.

Keep it coming.
AL PABON, Major, CAP

Pylon

Okay, Al.  Here's my biggest piece of advice as a PR professional for the NHQ/PA team.   

Stop.

Stop working on things.  Everything you're currently working on by the very nature of it will be disjointed.  Just stop.  Anything you're doing will have to be redone anyways.  (So let me say it once more:  Stop.)

Take a step back, hire a professional communications consultant and start working on SWOT analysis of CAP's branding.  Create an identity system, complete with a style guide and don't create any new marketing materials, efforts or components until this is complete.

But hey, I'm just a professional.
Michael F. Kieloch, Maj, CAP

A.Member

I have to agree with Pylon.  At this point, just stop.  Get a plan together.  The idea of National is to provide strategic direction for the organization.  This is desperately needed.  Work on that vision first.  Once the vision is clearly defined,  communicate that vision to membership (you can't possibly overcommuncate at this point), then discuss how best to market that vision.  As stated before, there are members that are truly skilled in these areas.  Leverage them, if needed.  Get member input.  We are the organization.

The changes I see being made are dis-jointed at best.  Resourceses are being wasted and only add to the issues we face.  Please ask that they stop and regroup before moving forward further.
"For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

Major Carrales

Quote from: Pylon on October 21, 2008, 02:12:14 PM
But hey, I'm just a professional.

How about doing "real" leg work instead of all the "corporate jargon" you just spewed.  Until CAP PAOs lose the "identity crisis" and simply start really working the local newspapers, making community connections with other organizations and get CAP the same name recognition as the Boy Scouts and Red Cross; nonthing that comes out of National HQ is going to do much more than languish.

All CAP is local, this is a reality.  Local governments are going to deal with local units on a day to day basis and only deal with Wing or NHQ during an emergency/crisis.  The "war" for CAP is won when a PAO is addressing community government, working with Airport Officials and making a name for CAP in the county/city and NOT when an IO is giving information at a crash or ICP.

By the way, Mike, if any of you are expecting National HQ to solve your PR issues...you are in for a long wait.  If you are trying to apply the "ad game" to local CAP then you must not understand local CAP.
"We have been given the power to change CAP, let's keep the momentum going!"

Major Joe Ely "Sparky" Carrales, CAP
Commander
Coastal Bend Cadet Squadron
SWR-TX-454

Pylon

#32
Quote from: Major Carrales on October 21, 2008, 03:40:10 PM
Quote from: Pylon on October 21, 2008, 02:12:14 PM
But hey, I'm just a professional.

How about doing "real" leg work instead of all the "corporate jargon" you just spewed.

Excuse me?  It's not meaningless corporate jargon.  This stuff makes or breaks multi-national corporations.  People spend their entire careers dealing with these very issues.  Major corporations have employees dedicated soley to protecting identity and branding, separate from communications, PR, and marketing staff (three very separate functions, I might add and clarify).

Just because you don't understand it or see a need for it at the local level doesn't mean that it's not important.  I don't expect most of the 600+ employees at my employer to understand my job or see a need for me.  And frankly, most employees don't need to understand or see it's value.  It's outside the scope of their duties but it still needs to happen.  I do know that the Executive Director and the Board of Directors understand clearly, see the value that my department brings to the organization and I know what my contribution to the organization's improved success and bottom line is.  That's what matters.


Quote from: Major Carrales on October 21, 2008, 03:40:10 PMBy the way, Mike, if any of you are expecting National HQ to solve your PR issues...you are in for a long wait.  If you are trying to apply the "ad game" to local CAP then you must not understand local CAP.

I don't know what you mean by "ad game" and I'm not sure what you're even trying to get at with your post other than trying to argue for there being no need for national-level PR and marketing efforts.  I can tell you don't work in the corporate or non-profit worlds - and that's fine; I am not expecting you to understand all this.   

CAP is a big, national non-profit organization, however, and should be doing the same things as any other successful national non-profit organization.  Coordinating the national marketing, communications and PR efforts into a cohesive branding and identity is one of those things.   Success as an organization comes from more sources than sheer brute force volunteer efforts at every local chapter; does your efforts at the local level play an important part?  Yes.  But it's not the whole picture, Sparky.

Michael Kieloch
Public Relations Society of America, Member
Michael F. Kieloch, Maj, CAP

heliodoc

^^^^^^^
Problem is... CAP can not accept advice from other professional folks out there, it truly seems

CAP is it and can not bother with outside sources. 

Just ask em 

Maybe its time for the AF to do a liitle compliance check on its money and where it goes for all this web advertising


pixelwonk


A.Member

#35
Again, I have to agree with Pylon.  

With all due respect to Major Carreles, it doesn't appear that you have a firm grasp on the purpose of strategic planning and vision.  While your statement about CAP being local is true, NHQ must provide direction for the organization as a whole so that those squadrons acting locally have clear objectives and act consistently.  The vision provides us with a common message.  It tells us how to use our resources.  It provides standards and direction.  It is desperately needed. 

We've not seen a strategic plan since...I don't know when.  It is vitial to the success of any organization.  And it should not be a secret.
"For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

pixelwonk

Didn't they talk about vision at the PAO academy?  Oh that's right. That's when we got "More Than Meets The Skies"  :D

Major Carrales

Here is where the reality encounters lofty ideals.  I believe that an organized CAP overall plan is needed, however, lack of such a plan should not preclude action.

Reality, most units do not even have a PAO.  They exist in isolation and their deed go unreported.

Reality, most PAOs are on their own with little help or contact with other PAOs.  There are no real broadcast quality tech assets, so a PAO has to produce everything locally.

Quote from: Pylon on October 21, 2008, 03:55:03 PM

Excuse me?  It's not meaningless corporate jargon.  This stuff makes or breaks multi-national corporations.  People spend their entire careers dealing with these very issues.  Major corporations have employees dedicated soley to protecting identity and branding, separate from communications, PR, and marketing staff (three very separate functions, I might add and clarify).

Just because you don't understand it or see a need for it at the local level doesn't mean that it's not important.  I don't expect most of the 600+ employees at my employer to understand my job or see a need for me.  And frankly, most employees don't need to understand or see it's value.  It's outside the scope of their duties but it still needs to happen.  I do know that the Executive Director and the Board of Directors understand clearly, see the value that my department brings to the organization and I know what my contribution to the organization's improved success and bottom line is.  That's what matters.

CAP is not a "multi-national" corporation, nor does it have the resources of one.  That being said, money has been sepent on such matters.  The results, from professionals, were ridiculed by you people and I would go as far as to say that nothing will get past that.

I've been a PAO in the field since 1998.  I've seen "America's Best Kept Secret," "Missions for America" and "More than meets the Skies."  I was at the first PAO Academy and it was told to me that the idea was that all CAP was local.

Over reaching plans will not save CAP PR, only the leg work of local people with a guidance from CAP NHQ will work.

QuoteI don't know what you mean by "ad game" and I'm not sure what you're even trying to get at with your post other than trying to argue for there being no need for national-level PR and marketing efforts.  I can tell you don't work in the corporate or non-profit worlds - and that's fine; I am not expecting you to understand all this.   

CAP is a big, national non-profit organization, however, and should be doing the same things as any other successful national non-profit organization.  Coordinating the national marketing, communications and PR efforts into a cohesive branding and identity is one of those things.   Success as an organization comes from more sources than sheer brute force volunteer efforts at every local chapter; does your efforts at the local level play an important part?  Yes.  But it's not the whole picture, Sparky.

I'm not saying thre is no need for a National Program, just that it is not the MESSIAH type program that is going to make Joe Citizen leap up and say..."I WANT TO BE SEPMER VIGILANS."  The recruiting and Public Affairs people are going to listen to is the local person, cadets or CAP Officers, that are "getting the job done."

What's that National PR going to say?  Come out and FLY?  I don't think the effort to start a Unit in Laredo is going to get much out of that since they likly won't even see and aircraft.  It would begin with service, showing local people working.  Going out and meeting the people.  Not some "tag line" from some region.

QuoteMichael Kieloch
Public Relations Society of America, Member

Wow, and I take it on the chin for using the term "Major" in my screen name.  I'm a member of the Knights of Columbus, certified Teacher and a Mariachi Band.

My main problem with your post is that you basically told Al his efforts were worthless.  I take issue with that.  He is one of the hardest working PAOs in the Civil Air Patrol.
"We have been given the power to change CAP, let's keep the momentum going!"

Major Joe Ely "Sparky" Carrales, CAP
Commander
Coastal Bend Cadet Squadron
SWR-TX-454

Major Carrales

Quote from: teddeh on October 21, 2008, 04:21:22 PM
Didn't they talk about vision at the PAO academy?  Oh that's right. That's when we got "More Than Meets The Skies"  :D

The Academy did not come up with that...a well paid PR company gave us that.  You know, type of people Pylon is saying we should hire.
"We have been given the power to change CAP, let's keep the momentum going!"

Major Joe Ely "Sparky" Carrales, CAP
Commander
Coastal Bend Cadet Squadron
SWR-TX-454

Major Carrales

#39
Quote from: A.Member on October 21, 2008, 04:15:20 PM
Again, I have to agree with Pylon.  

With all due respect to Major Carreles, it doesn't appear that you have a firm grasp on the purpose of strategic planning and vision.  While your statement about CAP being local is true, NHQ must provide direction for the organization as a whole so that those squadrons acting locally have clear objectives and act consistently.  The vision provides us with a common message.  It tells us how to use our resources.  It provides standards and direction.  It is desperately needed. 

We've not seen a strategic plan since...I don't know when.  It is vitial to the success of any organization.  And it should not be a secret.

Fancy taglines and "mission statements" are not going to save the PR program; the actions of local CAP is where it happens.

I know well enough about planning and visions; I've seen school spend millions on such plans and not improve their rating.  You know what did improve their rating?  Caring teachers, firm, but fair Administration and offering programs like CAP to the students; again, it comes from the field.

I dont' think "suits" in some office out in the Northeast can tell me more about the demographics and need of my area than I can tell them. 
"We have been given the power to change CAP, let's keep the momentum going!"

Major Joe Ely "Sparky" Carrales, CAP
Commander
Coastal Bend Cadet Squadron
SWR-TX-454