Hawaii Wing problems

[Eclipse]

10 aircraft is a lot of hardware for a wing / state that small.

There are wings with 5x's the area, 10x the population, and triple the members that have less aircraft assigned.

Granted, HIWG is unique in that it seems like you can't go to the bathroom without an aircraft of some type,
but it's certainly a legit musing to wonder if they would have lost aircraft already if it weren't such a hassle to get them back.

[Johnny Yuma]

I'd be more than a little concerned if a unit with 120 members had 2/3 of the membership drop of the rolls or go inactive/patron and lose that many pilots at one time.

[lordmonar]

I'd be more than a little concerned if a unit with 120 members had 2/3 of the membership drop of the rolls or go inactive/patron and lose that many pilots at one time.

I would too.....unless it was expected.

[JacobAnn]

I'd be more than a little concerned if a unit with 120 members had 2/3 of the membership drop of the rolls or go inactive/patron and lose that many pilots at one time.

I'm wondering if this is one of those "You need to take a step backwards before you can move forward" type of situations.  Hopefully it works out for HI Wing.  They provide a valuable service to their residents. 

[AirDX]

The membership numbers of the squadron on Kauai:

Jan 2013: 97
Jan 2014: 111
Jan 2015: 79

A part of the decline is the transfer of inactive members to 000.  000 membership during the same timeframe:

Jan 2013: 10
Jan 2014: 28
Jan 2015: 75

Obviously not all came from Kauai, but there was a big push from the wing to transfer inactive people to 000 last summer.

These numbers are freely available on eServices, I'm not giving away any secrets!

As far as the pilot population, all I know is that, like everywhere, we need more pilots, but as an assistant DO, when I task Kauai, they always respond.  Mission performance is my bottom line, and we got it.

[Майор Хаткевич]

The membership numbers of the squadron on Kauai:

Jan 2013: 97
Jan 2014: 111
Jan 2015: 79

A part of the decline is the transfer of inactive members to 000.  000 membership during the same timeframe:

Jan 2013: 10
Jan 2014: 28
Jan 2015: 75

Obviously not all came from Kauai, but there was a big push from the wing to transfer inactive people to 000 last summer.

These numbers are freely available on eServices, I'm not giving away any secrets!

As far as the pilot population, all I know is that, like everywhere, we need more pilots, but as an assistant DO, when I task Kauai, they always respond.  Mission performance is my bottom line, and we got it.

Again,


Not surprising. Someone is PO'd, and saw 40 people at a meeting last time, and thinks he saw 120 in eservices last year when he logged in, and runs to the newsman. Newsman doesn't do his research, and publishes story.

[Eclipse]

A part of the decline is the transfer of inactive members to 000. 

Pretty much hammers the point I and others have been making.

These people are not "members" they are financial backers at best.

From 50k feet, it looks like HIWG had some CCs and staff who were curating empty uniform
numbers and don't like the truth of their real membership now that it's been normalized.

This is a Band-Aid CAP needs to rip off nationally, grin, bear it, and move on...

[JeffDG]

A part of the decline is the transfer of inactive members to 000. 

Pretty much hammers the point I and others have been making.

These people are not "members" they are financial backers at best.

From 50k feet, it looks like HIWG had some CCs and staff who were curating empty uniform
numbers and don't like the truth of their real membership now that it's been normalized.

This is a Band-Aid CAP needs to rip off nationally, grin, bear it, and move on...

Or, just say "Thanks for the financial contribution" and move on.  Stirring the hornets nest has no benefit.

[Storm Chaser]

I think it's obvious from the article that this has been blown out of proportion. People don't like change, especially disruptive change, but sometimes it's just necessary.

[lordmonar]

A part of the decline is the transfer of inactive members to 000. 

Pretty much hammers the point I and others have been making.

These people are not "members" they are financial backers at best.

From 50k feet, it looks like HIWG had some CCs and staff who were curating empty uniform
numbers and don't like the truth of their real membership now that it's been normalized.

This is a Band-Aid CAP needs to rip off nationally, grin, bear it, and move on...

Now you just need to come up with some offical definition of "empty shirt" and we can push that work load onto the squadrons.

[Eclipse]

Now you just need to come up with some offical definition of "empty shirt" and we can push that work load onto the squadrons.

Not my job - that's NHQ's role.

"Workload"?  If you can't click a few boxes, higher HQ can do it. 

[lordmonar]

Now you just need to come up with some official definition of "empty shirt" and we can push that work load onto the squadrons.

Not my job - that's NHQ's role.

"Workload"?  If you can't click a few boxes, higher HQ can do it.
[/quote] obviously NHQ does not really care about the "empty shirts"......so if you are going to push this up from the grass roots....what definition do you use to transfer or 2b "empty shirts"?

[Eclipse]

Somewhere between "safety current" and "no one has ever seen that guy"...

[LSThiker]

Granted, HIWG is unique in that it seems like you can't go to the bathroom without an aircraft of some type,
but it's certainly a legit musing to wonder if they would have lost aircraft already if it weren't such a hassle to get them back.

A rather naïve question, but does any know how much it costs NHQ to get a Cessna to HI?

[a2capt]

... which is why there are more than "typical", because of the isolation, and the need for redundancy so that the mission can be carried out when aircraft might be borrowed/tasked from adjacent wings on the continent, they can't just call for another one that simply when it's a whole procedure just to get them there.

[bflynn]

Granted, HIWG is unique in that it seems like you can't go to the bathroom without an aircraft of some type,
but it's certainly a legit musing to wonder if they would have lost aircraft already if it weren't such a hassle to get them back.

A rather naïve question, but does any know how much it costs NHQ to get a Cessna to HI?

It will depend on the method

You can disassemble it and ship it in a shipping container.  In that case, the actual shipping and container is a small part of the cost, the disassembly and reassembly of the airplane is the expense...something in the 10-15k range if there's no damage in the shipping?  The chances of damage are not zero.

To fly the intact airplane, most of the internals will be stripped, shipped externally and large fuel tanks put on board.  Figure 15-20k for the ferry flight.

I'm estimating both, but the numbers are in correct rough order of magnitude.

[bflynn]

... which is why there are more than "typical", because of the isolation, and the need for redundancy so that the mission can be carried out when aircraft might be borrowed/tasked from adjacent wings on the continent, they can't just call for another one that simply when it's a whole procedure just to get them there.

Yes, but that's probably why they have 10 aircraft for the wing in an area slightly larger than Connecticut.

I still don't understand having 7 or 8 of those airplanes based on Oahu.  Seems like it would pretty much end ES on Maui and Kauai or at least encourage people to find other things to do with their free time.

The membership numbers of the squadron on Kauai:

Jan 2013: 97
Jan 2014: 111
Jan 2015: 79

A part of the decline is the transfer of inactive members to 000.  000 membership during the same timeframe:

Jan 2013: 10
Jan 2014: 28
Jan 2015: 75

Obviously not all came from Kauai, but there was a big push from the wing to transfer inactive people to 000 last summer.

These numbers are freely available on eServices, I'm not giving away any secrets!

As far as the pilot population, all I know is that, like everywhere, we need more pilots, but as an assistant DO, when I task Kauai, they always respond.  Mission performance is my bottom line, and we got it.

Interesting - I don't have access to that data.

Do you have the break down of seniors vs cadets?  I know there's been consolidation of squadrons going on in HI wing.  If they started with 97 SMs, added 57 cadets and had 79 SMs quit/retire/move to inactive, that's not good.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Everyone has that in E-Services.

Click on the Statistics box Arrow X, choose unit.




Feb 2000: 47/0 (SM/Cadet)
Feb 2001: 48/7
Feb 2002: 40/3
Feb 2003: 39/2
Feb 2004: 39/3
Feb 2005: 50/9
Feb 2006: 53/15
Feb 2007: 44/19
Feb 2008: 43/12
Feb 2009: 46/11
Feb 2010: 42/28
Feb 2011: 49/2
Feb 2012: 62/27
Feb 2013: 68/36
Feb 2014: 67/44
Jan 2015: 67/12

[Eclipse]

Granted, HIWG is unique in that it seems like you can't go to the bathroom without an aircraft of some type,
but it's certainly a legit musing to wonder if they would have lost aircraft already if it weren't such a hassle to get them back.

A rather naïve question, but does any know how much it costs NHQ to get a Cessna to HI?

It will depend on the method

You can disassemble it and ship it in a shipping container.  In that case, the actual shipping and container is a small part of the cost, the disassembly and reassembly of the airplane is the expense...something in the 10-15k range if there's no damage in the shipping?  The chances of damage are not zero.

To fly the intact airplane, most of the internals will be stripped, shipped externally and large fuel tanks put on board.  Figure 15-20k for the ferry flight.

I'm estimating both, but the numbers are in correct rough order of magnitude.

I think if you took off the empennage and the spinner you might be able to squeeze it into a Beluga sideways.

If they did fit that way, you could move 3 at a time!

[LSThiker]

Everyone has that in E-Services.

Click on the Statistics box Arrow X, choose unit.

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