Question about ribbons on blues

[vmstan]

This is probably a silly question, but I'm new When you're wearing your blues, with a jacket, do you still wear ribbons, badges and rank epaulets on the shirt under the jacket?

[AirAux]

Only if you want to be extremely uncomfortable and look like a dweeb..In other words no.  You normally don't remove the Blue jacket  when you are wearing it..or if you do, you just have the shirt and tie on..in you office..

[Eclipse]

If you don't wear insignia on the shirt, you can't take the jacket off, as you would be out of uniform.

Most people wear grade slides, a nameplate, and badges on the shirt under a service jacket, but not ribbons.

In your case it would be CAP cutouts on the shirt collar and nothing on the shoulders of the jacket or shirt until you make 2d Lt.

[kd8gua]

But why would a SM(WOG) wear the CAP cutouts on the shirt collar AND the service coat lapels? We aren't the Marines...

[vmstan]

I thought we wore blank gray shoulder epaulets?

I'm sure Eclipse meant jacket collar.

[Hawk200]

But why would a SM(WOG) wear the CAP cutouts on the shirt collar AND the service coat lapels? We aren't the Marines...

Because the Manual says "Senior members without grade and NCOs and Airmen wearing chevrons on the sleevewear the CAP lapel/collar insignia on both sides of collar."

It doesn't say "unless the service coat is worn". If you're a SMWOG, and you're not wearing them, you're in violation of the manual. If you're advocating that a SMWOG not wear them when the manual clearly states that it's required, you're wrong.

Does it make sense to do so? Not really. But picking and choosing what you wish to obey is wrong. Personally, I don't even think they should be on the collars at all for SMWOG or NCOs, for either blues or BDUs. But I don't have a choice in the matter.

[Hawk200]

I thought we wore blank gray shoulder epaulets?

I'm sure Eclipse meant jacket collar.

No, you don't. The blank shoulder epaulet was designed for pinning NCO stripes, not as a "placeholder" for SMWOGs. It's not a rank insignia by itself.

[Eclipse]

I thought we wore blank gray shoulder epaulets?

I'm sure Eclipse meant jacket collar.

Nope - SMWOG do not wear blank epaulets - those are supposedly for Senior NCO's to pin on thier USAF grade.

Hawk has is right above.

[kd8gua]

Hawk, I'm saying when a SMWOG wears a service coat in blues. The US insignia is replaced by CAP insignia. Do cadets wear insignia on their collars and their lapels while in blues with service coats? No, therefore, why should SMWOG and SMNCOs have another set of uniform rules? SMWOGs wear collar insignia while wearing the blues shirt only. When wearing the service coat, just like cadets do, the collar insignia is placed on the lapels.

[Eclipse]

Hawk, I'm saying when a SMWOG wears a service coat in blues. The US insignia is replaced by CAP insignia. Do cadets wear insignia on their collars and their lapels while in blues with service coats?

Yes, they do.

In fact, your whole message makes no sense.

No insignia is changed on the shirt or jacket just because you are wearing one or the other.

US stays on the jacket at all times, "CAP" stays on the collar.

[jimmydeanno]

This is probably a silly question, but I'm new When you're wearing your blues, with a jacket, do you still wear ribbons, badges and rank epaulets on the shirt under the jacket?

When I'm wearing my service coat, I'll have my epaulet sleeves and nametag on.  I won't wear ribbons or the specialty badges.  In that way, I have the option of taking off my coat if I choose to.

[jimmydeanno]

Hawk, I'm saying when a SMWOG wears a service coat in blues. The US insignia is replaced by CAP insignia. Do cadets wear insignia on their collars and their lapels while in blues with service coats?

Yes, they do.

Never seen that before in my 13 years in the program, ever.

[Eclipse]

^ The mini badges are a nice option for this.

[SilverEagle2]

I wear my epaulets, name plate, and mini wings under my service dress to have the option as well.

[kd8gua]

Hawk, I'm saying when a SMWOG wears a service coat in blues. The US insignia is replaced by CAP insignia. Do cadets wear insignia on their collars and their lapels while in blues with service coats?

Yes, they do.

In fact, your whole message makes no sense.

No insignia is changed on the shirt or jacket just because you are wearing one or the other.

US stays on the jacket at all times, "CAP" stays on the collar.

Cite please. I have the 39-1 and all applicable ICLs in front of me.

[jimmydeanno]

Hawk, I'm saying when a SMWOG wears a service coat in blues. The US insignia is replaced by CAP insignia. Do cadets wear insignia on their collars and their lapels while in blues with service coats?

Yes, they do.

In fact, your whole message makes no sense.

No insignia is changed on the shirt or jacket just because you are wearing one or the other.

US stays on the jacket at all times, "CAP" stays on the collar.

Cite please. I have the 39-1 and all applicable ICLs in front of me.

I agree.  Just looking at the picture on page 17 of 39-1 shows that the insignia is only worn on the jacket, not the shirt...

[MIKE]

Hawk, I'm saying when a SMWOG wears a service coat in blues. The US insignia is replaced by CAP insignia. Do cadets wear insignia on their collars and their lapels while in blues with service coats?

Yes, they do.

In fact, your whole message makes no sense.

No insignia is changed on the shirt or jacket just because you are wearing one or the other.

US stays on the jacket at all times, "CAP" stays on the collar.

That's not what the photos of cadets in service dress would have you believe.  Their collars are devoid of insignia.

[Eclipse]

Nope, I'm wrong on the cadets, but not on the seniors.

[Hawk200]

Hawk, I'm saying when a SMWOG wears a service coat in blues. The US insignia is replaced by CAP insignia. Do cadets wear insignia on their collars and their lapels while in blues with service coats? No, therefore, why should SMWOG and SMNCOs have another set of uniform rules? SMWOGs wear collar insignia while wearing the blues shirt only. When wearing the service coat, just like cadets do, the collar insignia is placed on the lapels.

The manual does not state "Wear insignia on collar unless service coat is worn."

Yes, I know the photos don't show it for cadets, so on that note there may be legitimate argument. I will concede that as far as cadets are concerned. However, for seniors it's not demonstrated (as in a photo) or given in writing as allowable to forgo collar insignia. And uniforms are the least issue when it comes to different rules for seniors and cadets.

The letter of the reg is that it be worn. As to the spirit, we don't really know the intention of the original drafters of the pub. To be correct, the collar insignia needs to be worn on shirt/blouse.

Now, we could argue it, or we could do the smart thing and comply, while making the effort to change it. 39-1 is due for a rewrite, so now would probably be a good time.

[Eclipse]

What amazes me is that despite the fact they are never mentioned in 39-1, nor pictured anywhere, and are basically a specialty
item at Vanguard, we still have new members all over the place wearing those !@#$ blank grade sleeves, and commanders
all over the place who don't know better, either.