what do i get for this? (uniform)

Started by SAR junkie, August 08, 2005, 09:39:12 PM

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SAR junkie

When i went to basic encampment a couple of weeks ago we had a virtural firing range. One of the same ones that the Army uses to qualify traniees. i got marksman. I was told i get to wear a ribbon or something for it.  ::)  ???
I keep asking around but no one seems to know what i get to wear for it. im assuming it is an army thing since it was an army range.

if anyone knows i would appreciate it. 8)
C/MSgt Caliguiri
C/CC
Centenary Composite Squadron ~KY058~

search and rescue all the way!

ranger john

Centenary Composite Squadron KY058
*rangers all the way*

SAR junkie

well they told me a couple of times but no one would give me a straight answer. and did you notice that the guys that got marksman got something from them, but since i was a FEMALE and i got it also i didnt get anything? i did some research and some of those cadets got basic marksman just like me.  :-[ double standards.. *shakes head* just not right just not right
C/MSgt Caliguiri
C/CC
Centenary Composite Squadron ~KY058~

search and rescue all the way!

MIKE

Didn't we already cover this on CS?  IIRC the consensus was that you would be pretty much limited to the NRA marksmanship medal for the course of fire you complete... Provided the activity followed NRA guidelines for award of said medal.   Possible, but unlikely IMO.

I had mentioned the Small Arms Expert Marksmanship Ribbon being possibly awarded to those CAP members who complete the handgun orientation course and achieve an expert score, but apparently CAPR 39-3 unfortunately does not jive with AFI 36-2226.
Mike Johnston

Major_Chuck

From AFI 36-2226



Key word is "possibly".  If CAPR 39-3 is not authorizing it then there is a strong chance that you can not wear the award.

Don't forget that to wear military ribbons and awards you have to have served in the military and have been awarded the ribbon/award in writing by a military authority.

Another question for the higher ups at NHQ.

Chuck Cranford
SGT, TNCO VA OCS
Virginia Army National Guard

SAR junkie

just for reference it was an M16 semi-auto range
C/MSgt Caliguiri
C/CC
Centenary Composite Squadron ~KY058~

search and rescue all the way!

BlueLakes1

#6
I'm not sure the "possibly" in AFI 36-2226 actually has bearing over the actual awarding of the ribbon. Given the placement in there, it reads that CAP members may possibly take the training (as opposed to USAFA, ROTC, etc who "may" take the training). A few lines down it states that trainees who complete with an expert do get the award, so paperwork could be issued to those who achieve the score necessary. Regardless of wether USAF issues the paperwork or not, 39-3 doesn't allow the wear of the earned ribbon.

As was mentioned, 39-3 does restrict the wear of US Military ribbons to people who earned them while a member of the military. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense, since there are several ribbons that can be awarded to civilians. Two examples I gave on CS were a squadron mate who was awarded the USCG Silver Lifesaving Medal for rescuing a drowning man after Thunder over Louisville, and a member of KY-123 who was awarded the Aerial Achievement Medal for flying troops to the middle east as an airline pilot. The Air Medal can also be awarded to civilians, though I have no idea how the paper trail would progress for that one.

However, regardless of what the regs say, no paperwork for award of a ribbon was generated at GLR Southern, so "no joy" on the ribbon either way this time. I know you'll see other people out there wearing the ribbon (although they are not supposed to), those people who are wearing it earned the paper thru another method. Also, the AFI specifies "handgun", and the M-16 is most certainly not a handgun, so I don't think that the instructors would have been able to issue paperwork for an award either way.
Col Matthew Creed, CAP
GLR/CC

Major_Chuck

CAPM 39-1 states that to wear a military ribbon or award it must come in writing from a competent military authority.  Essentially an order stating that you are herby authorized to wear  _______________.

-CC
Chuck Cranford
SGT, TNCO VA OCS
Virginia Army National Guard

MIKE

Quote from: Major_Chuck on August 08, 2005, 11:53:41 PM
Don't forget that to wear military ribbons and awards you have to have served in the military and have been awarded the ribbon/award in writing by a military authority.

According to CAPR 39-3 yes, but not according to CAPM 39-1.  See below:

Quote from: CAPR 39-3b. Decorations, ribbons, and badges authorized for
wear on the US Air Force uniform may be worn on the
CAP uniform when earned through qualification and
awarded by competent authority to a member for service
performed in any branch of the Armed Forces of the
United States or its allies.
(Foreign decorations, ribbons,
badges, etc., awarded in writing to a member not in the
Armed Forces of the United States may also be worn if
approved by National Headquarters.) Aeronautical
badges, emblems, insignia, ribbons, etc., given by a
foreign government, or agency, as souvenirs or emblems
of friendship do not qualify as earned awards and will not
be worn on the CAP uniform. All cases where doubt
exists as to the propriety of a badge, medal or other
device being worn will be referred to National
Headquarters for decision.

Emphasis added.

Quote from: CAPM 39-15-4. Military Service Awards. Military service ribbons may be worn on the CAP AF-style uniform
provided they were awarded in writing by competent military authority. Awards of the Air Force,
Army, Navy, Marine Corps, or Coast Guard will be worn in the order prescribed by the awarding
service, subject to the following: In all cases of relative priority, Air Force awards will take precedence.
See Table 5-3. Awards for wars, campaigns, expeditions etc., will be worn in chronological sequence.

My point is that all they have to do to allow civilians to wear military awards which they have been "awarded in writing by competent military authority" is to remove that one part of the above quote of CAPR 39-3.  Reason being is that there are members in CAP who otherwise could wear military awards earned as civilians.

Also... How did you quote AFI 36-2226 like that?
Mike Johnston

Major_Chuck

I use a program called "Snag It".  It allows me to create an image of any part of my screen I am looking at and save it as a image file.  It has come in handy when trying to deal with clueless helpldesk personnel who insist that I am not having problems with their software.

Back to the topic at hand.  Don't you love it when one regulation/manual contradicts another or serves to create more of a grey haze to operate in.

Chuck Cranford
SGT, TNCO VA OCS
Virginia Army National Guard

MIKE

Quote from: Major_Chuck on August 09, 2005, 12:26:43 AM
Back to the topic at hand.  Don't you love it when one regulation/manual contradicts another or serves to create more of a grey haze to operate in.

Yep, watch out for that mountain.  ;D
Mike Johnston