How do you handle cadets with improper uniforms?

[xray328]

Regarding the BDU's, if a cadets mom used stitch witch/fabric fusion on the patches, and they aren't even close what do you do?  Obviously you can't just undo them with out risk of destroying the uniform but I can't let them be out or regs either.  Lets say parents can't afford to buy everything again to correct it?  Now what?

Just looking to see how you'd handle it.

[arajca]

You can heat stitch witch and some fusibles and remove them with minimal mess. Check their websites and you should find instructions on how to do this.

[Brit_in_CAP]

You can heat stitch witch and some fusibles and remove them with minimal mess. Check their websites and you should find instructions on how to do this.

Indeed, and if that doesn't work then the cadet is stuck - pun intended - with a mess they have to clear up.

Actually, this doesn't just apply to cadets...I know a couple of Seniors who tried and failed with the fusible method!

My own experience has been well meaning parents who can't sew.

I usually counsel new parents and cadets to NOT try that route but we're fortunate to have a SM who's significant other is a seamstress.

To your original point, I'd give the cadet a couple of weeks to sort things out with permission to wear appropriate civilian attire in the interim.  Good point about the cost of replacement; worth asking around the unit to see if someone has an old item they can gift or pointing the parents towards a cheaper supply.  Have to remember that BDU is not part of the Minimum Required Uniform and we can't demand that they purchase although lacking a BDU would mean that some activities would not be accessible.  Tricky, and I wish I had better advice.

On balance - in the short term, I'd try and find a suitable, used, item within the squadron.

[winterg]

Using fusible bonding for uniforms is a personal pet peeve of mine. But this is real life and people use it.

Dritz actually offers a method that has some success of removing the residue.

Fusible bonding web / Stitch Witchery is designed as a permanent bond but you can attempt to remove any unwanted residue by following these steps:

1. Reheat iron on a dry cotton setting or as hot as your fabric will allow.
2. Place a scrap piece of a cotton terry towel over the residue.
3. Reheat the area with the iron for about 10 seconds.
4. Immediately pull away the heated scrap - the reheated residue should pull away from the fabric and adhere to the scrap.
5. Repeat this process until the residue has been completely removed. Be sure to use a clean area of the scrap fabric each time.

A used sewing machine from Craigslist or the thrift store and an afternoon watching YouTube videos should suffice for any squadron to have the means to sew the basic patches on for members.

If any members here would like any guidance or information about how to set a machine up for yourself, please feel free to PM me.

[TheSkyHornet]

I think it is key to mention that you should be sure to explain this to the individual when you discover the issue and avoid future occurrences.

You get a lot of people who think "this will work just as good" and it ends up not being the correct method/look. We had a cadet who lived with her grandmother, who thought any uniform combination would do because she didn't know any better. Ended up with the wrong uniform items. Hey, it happens. Learn from it, and try to explain to others early enough "I recommend....because...so you don't...."

[KatCAP]

We put a list together and said this is what it required.  You don't have it - get it.  Of you don't, no promotions because how can you promote without a proper uniform?

[TheSkyHornet]

We put a list together and said this is what it required.  You don't have it - get it.  Of you don't, no promotions because how can you promote without a proper uniform?

Are you going to mandate they purchase BDUs?

I can understand saying "If you're going to wear the BDU pants, you need the blouse as well."

[xray328]

Isn't a proper uniform just that, a single proper uniform (blues for instance?)

[Capt Thompson]

A thorough uniform class when they are basics, as part of the great start/training flight. Teach them how before they buy the patches, show them where to obtain a free download of 39-1 and a $2 sewing guage, and put the responsibility on the Cadet. Grandma isn't standing up in formation, so it's not her responsibility, if the Cadet was trained properly, and the uniform got messed up, give them a few weeks in civies to straighten out the mess for themselves.

As a Cadet, a sewed on everything myself by hand, and that was before youtube to show me how. I figured it out, and if something was wrong, it was spotted the next week in inspection, the patch was removed and I had a week to fix.

While we can't require a cadet to buy BDU's, in our case the Squadron has used that they can issue. If we're giving you the uniform and patches, we can certainly mandate that you don't use glue to attach them.

[TheSkyHornet]

A thorough uniform class when they are basics, as part of the great start/training flight. Teach them how before they buy the patches, show them where to obtain a free download of 39-1 and a $2 sewing guage, and put the responsibility on the Cadet. Grandma isn't standing up in formation, so it's not her responsibility, if the Cadet was trained properly, and the uniform got messed up, give them a few weeks in civies to straighten out the mess for themselves.

As a Cadet, a sewed on everything myself by hand, and that was before youtube to show me how. I figured it out, and if something was wrong, it was spotted the next week in inspection, the patch was removed and I had a week to fix.

While we can't require a cadet to buy BDU's, in our case the Squadron has used that they can issue. If we're giving you the uniform and patches, we can certainly mandate that you don't use glue to attach them.

Wholeheartedly agree; however, that really depends on the squadron. Sometimes absent leadership leads to continued lack of uniformity.

In our squadron, I've seen cadets come in wearing the wrong uniform (for example, the wrong flag patch). A flight sergeant informed him of the mistake, and told him it needed to be corrected. After a couple of meetings, it still wasn't corrected. But it takes one person of higher authority saying "When you can..." and suddenly it's not longer an issue. Now, every time you see a problem arise, it turns to "Whenever you feel like fixing it, eventually, sometime, in the future..."

Drives me insane. Drives the senior cadets insane.

A major issue is getting the parents/guardian/whoever on board with the situation and making them understanding. They don't want to spend the money. They already spent enough money. They don't have the time. The cadet is getting frustrated because the other cadets are getting frustrated, and the parents are getting pissed because they're kid is coming home saying "They told me I still need to fix it."

I very much support the idea of "Before you start...here's what you need to know so avoid the most trouble." The problem is getting someone to sit down with that cadet and going over that stuff with them, and not having to hold a complete class on uniforms for the entire group every time a new person joins. I suggest finding a cadet to sit with the newbies before any uniforms are purchased, going through all the essentials, each and every time someone joins.

Verbally saying "Here's what you need....a pair of BDUs, here's the patch, sew it on, get blues, all the uniform manuals are online..." will usually lead to someone coming back with an incorrect item, or improper uniform wear, something that's going to look out of place.

[Capt Thompson]

Agreed, but hopefully if we're recruiting effectively, we have a group going through the great start program, and then a uniform class could be added in to the regular curriculum. If it's just a cadet at a time, then an assigned mentor, i.e. element leader or flight sergeant, should have a one on one before any uniform items are bought.

I see uniform discrepencies even in senior NCO's and Officers though, who were in a hurry and too lazy to double check 39-1. A uniform class for the entire Squadron once a year or so may not be a bad thing.

Either way, when a discrepency is observed, a timeframe needs to be given for correction. When I was a cadet, my C/CC would cut the patch off during inspection and hand it to the Cadet with instructions on how to fix the error, and they were given a week. This is a bit extreme nowadays, I definitely wouldn't take the seam ripper to any Cadet's uniform, but a reasonable timeframe (not more than 2 weeks) should be given for correction of the issue. If we just say fix it when you can, then it'll never get done.

[TheSkyHornet]

Agreed, but hopefully if we're recruiting effectively, we have a group going through the great start program, and then a uniform class could be added in to the regular curriculum. If it's just a cadet at a time, then an assigned mentor, i.e. element leader or flight sergeant, should have a one on one before any uniform items are bought.

I see uniform discrepencies even in senior NCO's and Officers though, who were in a hurry and too lazy to double check 39-1. A uniform class for the entire Squadron once a year or so may not be a bad thing.

Either way, when a discrepency is observed, a timeframe needs to be given for correction. When I was a cadet, my C/CC would cut the patch off during inspection and hand it to the Cadet with instructions on how to fix the error, and they were given a week. This is a bit extreme nowadays, I definitely wouldn't take the seam ripper to any Cadet's uniform, but a reasonable timeframe (not more than 2 weeks) should be given for correction of the issue. If we just say fix it when you can, then it'll never get done.

Our squadron appointed a Training Flight Officer for just this situation---new members who are clueless and need the tools to succeed. His job is to not only help train drill, but to serve as the meet-and-greet face when a new person stops by a meeting and introduce them to CAP. Definitely a plus to have at the beginning of their CAP career, prior to buying any uniforms.

I will say, we do have a certain senior member in our unit who feels the need to rush over to new people, start spewing a bunch of information, and tries to help get the person acclimated as quickly as possible. This is usually where the structure breaks down and now you have a clueless person purchasing items they either don't need or the wrong item.

By the way, Matt. I'd be PISSED if someone came up to me and ripped something off my uniform. I do agree with the time frame though. If they don't comply by a certain date, it should become "Please, refrain from wearing the uniform until corrected." Or don't even wear it at all until corrected.

[Capt Thompson]

Seam ripper = small knife used to separate a seam without damaging the cloth. It quickly removes the patch without damaging the uniform.

Usually if it was a crooked pin, he would remove it and hand it to a cadet, and have them correct it in the mirror after inspection. A crooked patch would be removed, and the cadet would be told to put it in their pocket and sew it back on over the next week.

As a young cadet, I didn't see anything wrong with it, but now as a senior I obviously see why it would be frowned upon. The positive side though, most cadets took better care to get it right before inspection.

When I became C/CC, my inspections were just as tough, but lacked the seam ripper. If the patch was horribly wrong though, I would usually ask the Cadet to remove it, and we would pin it in place correctly before they left, so they knew where it needed to be sewn.

Agreed only one person needs to be telling a Cadet where to obtain their new uniform parts, what to get, and how to assemble them, and that person needs to be well informed. The worst thing is to tell a Cadet something that isn't authorized and have them spend money on it, plus time putting it on a uniform, only to be told at inspection it is wrong.

[TheSkyHornet]

Seam ripper = small knife used to separate a seam without damaging the cloth. It quickly removes the patch without damaging the uniform.

Usually if it was a crooked pin, he would remove it and hand it to a cadet, and have them correct it in the mirror after inspection. A crooked patch would be removed, and the cadet would be told to put it in their pocket and sew it back on over the next week.

As a young cadet, I didn't see anything wrong with it, but now as a senior I obviously see why it would be frowned upon. The positive side though, most cadets took better care to get it right before inspection.

When I became C/CC, my inspections were just as tough, but lacked the seam ripper. If the patch was horribly wrong though, I would usually ask the Cadet to remove it, and we would pin it in place correctly before they left, so they knew where it needed to be sewn.

Agreed only one person needs to be telling a Cadet where to obtain their new uniform parts, what to get, and how to assemble them, and that person needs to be well informed. The worst thing is to tell a Cadet something that isn't authorized and have them spend money on it, plus time putting it on a uniform, only to be told at inspection it is wrong.

I know what a seam-ripper is, lol. I mostly meant "don't come up to me or anyone else and try to remove something from my uniform, including a hanging thread." Address it first. Explain the issue. Then tell the person to fix it (using whatever tools available), or help them fix it. It's usually an issue with a new member who simply doesn't know. They won't figure it out if you just say "Fix it. You have 5 minutes."

In the case of our cadet with the flag patch, his dad bought him a forward-facing flag patch instead of the reversed. Simple mistake for most people who don't know. He was told, "You need a flag patch," went online, ordered one, and there you have it: wrong patch. He was told after it was sewn on, "You have the wrong flag. It's supposed to be the reverse flag, like this (points to their own)." He said, "Got it. I'll get it fixed." A few meetings later, still not fixed. CC says "Well, they're doing away with the flag patch anyway. But whenever you can get around to it." I wouldn't walk up to him and cut it off his uniform, but I've said, "You need to get that patch fixed or removed, but that's the incorrect one." Someone higher than me told him not to worry about it, so that stands as the easier option...not worrying about it.

Frosts my cookies.

Tell you what I'm really getting tired of are haircuts out of regulations. They want their hair styled for school, so if they cut it shorter, it ruins their school hairdo. Mom takes them to get a $30 haircut, gelled up and faux-hawk. I say "Your hair is out of regs." Mom's mad because she just spent good money. Cadets fault? Yeah, I suppose. He should know better. But nobody explained what it meant to have your hair within regs beforehand. Now mom wants to know why it wasn't an issue before but it is now. Now you're picking on her kid.

I always make the joke that I have my clippers in my backpack, which sometimes I do as I buzz my own head. But I definitely wouldn't cut someone's hair without their parents say it was okay first. Sometimes I wish they would just let me do it already 

[Capt Thompson]

We periodically have a parents day, where they can come in and learn about the program. Whenever a new Cadet comes in, we make it a point to sit down with the parents before they sign the paperwork, and go I very things like expectations, uniform needs etc. If mom knows before signing on the dotted line that a faux hawk isn't allowed, she won't spend money on one.

As for the flag patch, on the bright side it n is correct for the flight suit, so it's not a waste if the Cadet plans on aircrew training someday. This is where a commitment needs to be in place among all Seniors and Cadet staff, if someone corrects a Cadet, no one higher should over rule the decision. Even if they do, no one in the Squadron is higher than the 39-1.

[TheSkyHornet]

We periodically have a parents day, where they can come in and learn about the program. Whenever a new Cadet comes in, we make it a point to sit down with the parents before they sign the paperwork, and go I very things like expectations, uniform needs etc. If mom knows before signing on the dotted line that a faux hawk isn't allowed, she won't spend money on one.

As for the flag patch, on the bright side it n is correct for the flight suit, so it's not a waste if the Cadet plans on aircrew training someday. This is where a commitment needs to be in place among all Seniors and Cadet staff, if someone corrects a Cadet, no one higher should over rule the decision. Even if they do, no one in the Squadron is higher than the 39-1.

*bows in praise*  :clap:

[Eaker Guy]

We periodically have a parents day, where they can come in and learn about the program. Whenever a new Cadet comes in, we make it a point to sit down with the parents before they sign the paperwork, and go I very things like expectations, uniform needs etc. If mom knows before signing on the dotted line that a faux hawk isn't allowed, she won't spend money on one.

As for the flag patch, on the bright side it n is correct for the flight suit, so it's not a waste if the Cadet plans on aircrew training someday. This is where a commitment needs to be in place among all Seniors and Cadet staff, if someone corrects a Cadet, no one higher should over rule the decision. Even if they do, no one in the Squadron is higher than the 39-1.

*bows in praise*  :clap:

Cue the ethereal lights and music!

All hail CAPM 39-1!!!!

[Capt Thompson]

I'm imagining a giant 39-1 descending from the clouds in a ray of sunshine with rainbows behind it Sorry about that last post I typed it from my phone and just noticed how much autocorrect botched it lol.

[Eaker Guy]

I'm imagining a giant 39-1 descending from the clouds in a ray of sunshine with rainbows behind it Sorry about that last post I typed it from my phone and just noticed how much autocorrect botched it lol.

WOW!!!!!!! 

[Eaker Guy]

In all serousness, Lt Thompson is right. No one is above CAPM 39-1.

+1 on the orientation. Good idea which I hope to implement in the near future.

[jdh]

I have a cadet with what looks like a shaggy dog on his head. I tell him every week that he needs a haircut (right in front of his mother) and his response is always "this is just how my hair grows" to which I reply "then cut it". This conversation has happened every week for the last two months. I'm not on the cadet program side of things and the CP officers dont seem to care about it. There are a lot of hair issues and out of reg boots (suede hiking/work boots) but they are allowed to get away with it.

[Eaker Guy]

I have a cadet with what looks like a shaggy dog on his head. I tell him every week that he needs a haircut (right in front of his mother) and his response is always "this is just how my hair grows" to which I reply "then cut it". This conversation has happened every week for the last two months. I'm not on the cadet program side of things and the CP officers dont seem to care about it. There are a lot of hair issues and out of reg boots (suede hiking/work boots) but they are allowed to get away with it.

What!!! The cadets don't fix it? Let me know what unit you're at and I'll fix that in a heartbeat!

Did you try bringing it up with the CDC/senior CP staff rep?

[Eaker Guy]

I have a cadet with what looks like a shaggy dog on his head. I tell him every week that he needs a haircut (right in front of his mother) and his response is always "this is just how my hair grows" to which I reply "then cut it". This conversation has happened every week for the last two months. I'm not on the cadet program side of things and the CP officers dont seem to care about it. There are a lot of hair issues and out of reg boots (suede hiking/work boots) but they are allowed to get away with it.

Possible CAPF 50? That way you can document the progress(lack thereof) so you have solid evidence.

[RogueLeader]

I have a cadet with what looks like a shaggy dog on his head. I tell him every week that he needs a haircut (right in front of his mother) and his response is always "this is just how my hair grows" to which I reply "then cut it". This conversation has happened every week for the last two months. I'm not on the cadet program side of things and the CP officers dont seem to care about it. There are a lot of hair issues and out of reg boots (suede hiking/work boots) but they are allowed to get away with it.

Send them home with a requirement to prepare a report on what the standards are and why they are important.  Do not let them in until they get a haircut to regulation.  Tell the squadron commander.  If that doesn't work, tell the CC that you'll be going up the chain if it isn't resolved.

[jdh]

There are a few problems that I have been seeing with the cadet side of this squadron and the excuse I am given every time I bring it up is that they have taken the teeth out of the regulations with the new "hazing guidelines". I have been told that the only real options are to refuse to let them participate and then boot them for failure to advance or just 2b them for failure to meet regulation. You are not allowed to single them out or make them feel bad. This is the same reason that I am told that I have to let cadets that dont meet the requirements (dont want to take the written test) to continue in the rocketry program. We dont have enough seniors to split them into two groups on meeting nights and we cant single them out and not let them participate. We have had an influx of seniors in the few months I have been here so I hope it changes soon.

[Eaker Guy]

There are a few problems that I have been seeing with the cadet side of this squadron and the excuse I am given every time I bring it up is that they have taken the teeth out of the regulations with the new "hazing guidelines". I have been told that the only real options are to refuse to let them participate and then boot them for failure to advance or just 2b them for failure to meet regulation. You are not allowed to single them out or make them feel bad. This is the same reason that I am told that I have to let cadets that dont meet the requirements (dont want to take the written test) to continue in the rocketry program. We dont have enough seniors to split them into two groups on meeting nights and we cant single them out and not let them participate. We have had an influx of seniors in the few months I have been here so I hope it changes soon.

Okay, my logic is this. The cadets that know and don't meet(obviously) the guidelines are singling themselves out because of their refusal to correct the issue. Cadet comes in with a mohawk/super long hair and we're not allowed to take appropriate measures because we're singling him/her out?? RIGHT! That makes sense. I've always wondered why people that try to be blatantly different feel singled out.

Rougeleader has an idea there. Consider tailoring it for your needs.

As a C/CC, I freak out whenever a cadet comes in with an obvious uniform discrepancy. Cadet with tank top comes in on PT night! We fix it ASAP. If no fix available, we would probably give the cadet a warning. If it happened again, send him home with a note that he needs sleeves!

--C/Maj Kiss

[SarDragon]

There are a few problems that I have been seeing with the cadet side of this squadron and the excuse I am given every time I bring it up is that they have taken the teeth out of the regulations with the new "hazing guidelines". I have been told that the only real options are to refuse to let them participate and then boot them for failure to advance or just 2b them for failure to meet regulation. You are not allowed to single them out or make them feel bad. This is the same reason that I am told that I have to let cadets that dont meet the requirements (dont want to take the written test) to continue in the rocketry program. We dont have enough seniors to split them into two groups on meeting nights and we cant single them out and not let them participate. We have had an influx of seniors in the few months I have been here so I hope it changes soon.

That is related to Gunny Hartman style behaviour. Telling a cadet that he/she is not meeting the requirements of the program is not singling them out for the purpose of harassment, embarrassment, or punishment. Your senior leadership needs to grow some cojones.

[JC004]

There are a few problems that I have been seeing with the cadet side of this squadron and the excuse I am given every time I bring it up is that they have taken the teeth out of the regulations with the new "hazing guidelines". I have been told that the only real options are to refuse to let them participate and then boot them for failure to advance or just 2b them for failure to meet regulation. You are not allowed to single them out or make them feel bad. This is the same reason that I am told that I have to let cadets that dont meet the requirements (dont want to take the written test) to continue in the rocketry program. We dont have enough seniors to split them into two groups on meeting nights and we cant single them out and not let them participate. We have had an influx of seniors in the few months I have been here so I hope it changes soon.

That is related to Gunny Hartman style behaviour. Telling a cadet that he/she is not meeting the requirements of the program is not singling them out for the purpose of harassment, embarrassment, or punishment. Your senior leadership needs to grow some cojones.

That is wacky.  You've gotta follow and establish the standards as well. 

We had a mission fairly recently.  We gathered everyone.  We said which cadets (and visitors) had to stay, assigned SMs to them, gave them stuff to do, and sent them to work on their projects while the rest of us went on the mission.  Under that kind of approach, we'd have to take new, unqualified cadets and non-members on a mission, against regulations.  No, no, no.  We gave them the positive message that they would need to do certain things to get qualified, and who to ask if they needed help.  They weren't singled out in a hazing-type way.

If a cadet shows up with their insignia attached incorrectly, a belt too long, etc, we mention it to the cadet and assign a cadet to help them.  If their GT gear isn't secure, we can take their pack and make it a positive learning experience for new people.  They aren't singled out in a bad way.  They aren't getting shouted at.  Nobody does pushups.  No CPP issue. 

[Spam]

My specific examples (just like at TLC):

- Leaving several encampments, I've observed new graduates on occasion at the nearest burger joint starting to enter in BDUs with shower shoes, or blues with no cover. While we all get it - they are finally released from a week of discipline - I have stopped to approach them in front of their parents to identify myself and quietly ask that they be all the way in, or all the way out, of uniform, in order to honor that uniform and show public respect thereby to those before us who died wearing it. I point out that the aspect of discipline now has shifted to SELF discipline, and the ball is in their court. Usually the initial reaction is a pained expression, but phrased that way, without pushing my rank or threatening to take names and report people, it works well, especially if the parents are listening. I usually suggest that they take advantage of the restaurant restroom to change.

- Four years ago, a 17 year old C/MSGT, inactive for five months, breezes back into my command in badly wrinkled, dirty blues with long hair, grinning at me in opening formation. (Note: know that adolescents, by their very nature, test limits and this guy acknowledged that he knew he was badly out of standards).  I asked him if he drove himself (yes), verified that he had cash, and had him call his folks and tell them that he was being told to drive a mile down the road to get a regulation haircut. He came back in an hour with a good haircut, but that was the last we ever saw of him. On one hand, this dilettante of a cadet quit, but on the other hand, it sent a powerful message to the rest of the corps that we demand adherence to standards to honor that uniform.

- Twenty years ago, at 0600L, I denied a cadet permission to board the unit vehicle to travel to Encampment due to his failure to obey a direct order to correct his shave and grooming prior to the event. His parents knew our standards ahead of time, and accepted that they needed to get him a dawn haircut and shave and drive him up themselves later that day. He went on to earn his Earhart (believe he made Spaatz, but not sure, I moved).

- A 16 year old C/2LT, GTM3/2/1 qualified, CAC rep presents at his promotion board in Class A blues which are perfect but with hair over his ears. We complete the promotion board, and I counsel him that his promotion is approved in all respects other than in his grooming. Accordingly, I tell him, he is denied this week and is required to report to me the next meeting within standards. The next week not only does he show up with a high and tight, his entire Flight shows up with outstanding haircuts, as the convert spreads the message.

- Three weeks ago my new 17 year old C/CC presented at opening formation with a hairy chin. I directed him (quietly, with only his deputy in earshot) to remove himself from formation and go below decks to my inbox, where I keep a bag of disposable razors, and to use the men's room hot water and soap to get that chin smooth as a Dutch babys rear.  Last week, he smiled and acknowledged that he'd bought his own bag of razors, and had privately grabbed a couple of other older cadets prior to opening and had them freshen up.  Lessons learned: praise in public, correct in private, adhere to standards, and finally, "attitudes are contagious - both positively and negatively".

- I encourage my cadets to cross inspect ME during inspection, and to respectfully suggest what might be out of order on my uniform (e.g. hint hint; missing flag patch on one set of BDUs, or loose cables on another, or a gig line off center...). I expect quiet, friendly, helpful correction to standards, and want them to get practice in giving such feedback without power tripping and turning into a Gunny Hartman.  I accept that I have imperfections as well, and need the message to go out that "none of us are righteous, no not one", and we need to show the core value of Respect by supporting each other in this manner.


My summary:

Do not hesitate to deny a promotion. Don't hesitate to deny participation in an activity. Do counsel privately if possible. Do your best to set a good example yourself, and acknowledge your own failings. Be humane and understanding, but balance that practicality with a refusal to let people treat a USAF style uniform as tantamount to a mere costume. Do remember to give POSTIVE praise and reinforcement whenever possible, as that is a nurturing behavior that, when withheld from their more "marginal" peers, can act as a strong social pressure for your troops to become more - uniform.  Uniforms, properly viewed, are yet another leadership tool to assist you in influencing and directing a group of people in a way that will win their obedience, confidence, respect, and loyal cooperation in achieving a common objective or goal.


V/R,
Spam

[foo]

My specific examples (just like at TLC):

- Leaving several encampments, I've observed new graduates on occasion at the nearest burger joint starting to enter in BDUs with shower shoes, or blues with no cover. While we all get it - they are finally released from a week of discipline - I have stopped to approach them in front of their parents to identify myself and quietly ask that they be all the way in, or all the way out, of uniform, in order to honor that uniform and show public respect thereby to those before us who died wearing it. I point out that the aspect of discipline now has shifted to SELF discipline, and the ball is in their court. Usually the initial reaction is a pained expression, but phrased that way, without pushing my rank or threatening to take names and report people, it works well, especially if the parents are listening. I usually suggest that they take advantage of the restaurant restroom to change.

- Four years ago, a 17 year old C/MSGT, inactive for five months, breezes back into my command in badly wrinkled, dirty blues with long hair, grinning at me in opening formation. (Note: know that adolescents, by their very nature, test limits and this guy acknowledged that he knew he was badly out of standards).  I asked him if he drove himself (yes), verified that he had cash, and had him call his folks and tell them that he was being told to drive a mile down the road to get a regulation haircut. He came back in an hour with a good haircut, but that was the last we ever saw of him. On one hand, this dilettante of a cadet quit, but on the other hand, it sent a powerful message to the rest of the corps that we demand adherence to standards to honor that uniform.

- Twenty years ago, at 0600L, I denied a cadet permission to board the unit vehicle to travel to Encampment due to his failure to obey a direct order to correct his shave and grooming prior to the event. His parents knew our standards ahead of time, and accepted that they needed to get him a dawn haircut and shave and drive him up themselves later that day. He went on to earn his Earhart (believe he made Spaatz, but not sure, I moved).

- A 16 year old C/2LT, GTM3/2/1 qualified, CAC rep presents at his promotion board in Class A blues which are perfect but with hair over his ears. We complete the promotion board, and I counsel him that his promotion is approved in all respects other than in his grooming. Accordingly, I tell him, he is denied this week and is required to report to me the next meeting within standards. The next week not only does he show up with a high and tight, his entire Flight shows up with outstanding haircuts, as the convert spreads the message.

- Three weeks ago my new 17 year old C/CC presented at opening formation with a hairy chin. I directed him (quietly, with only his deputy in earshot) to remove himself from formation and go below decks to my inbox, where I keep a bag of disposable razors, and to use the men's room hot water and soap to get that chin smooth as a Dutch babys rear.  Last week, he smiled and acknowledged that he'd bought his own bag of razors, and had privately grabbed a couple of other older cadets prior to opening and had them freshen up.  Lessons learned: praise in public, correct in private, adhere to standards, and finally, "attitudes are contagious - both positively and negatively".

- I encourage my cadets to cross inspect ME during inspection, and to respectfully suggest what might be out of order on my uniform (e.g. hint hint; missing flag patch on one set of BDUs, or loose cables on another, or a gig line off center...). I expect quiet, friendly, helpful correction to standards, and want them to get practice in giving such feedback without power tripping and turning into a Gunny Hartman.  I accept that I have imperfections as well, and need the message to go out that "none of us are righteous, no not one", and we need to show the core value of Respect by supporting each other in this manner.


My summary:

Do not hesitate to deny a promotion. Don't hesitate to deny participation in an activity. Do counsel privately if possible. Do your best to set a good example yourself, and acknowledge your own failings. Be humane and understanding, but balance that practicality with a refusal to let people treat a USAF style uniform as tantamount to a mere costume. Do remember to give POSTIVE praise and reinforcement whenever possible, as that is a nurturing behavior that, when withheld from their more "marginal" peers, can act as a strong social pressure for your troops to become more - uniform.  Uniforms, properly viewed, are yet another leadership tool to assist you in influencing and directing a group of people in a way that will win their obedience, confidence, respect, and loyal cooperation in achieving a common objective or goal.


V/R,
Spam

:clap:

[TheSkyHornet]

There are a few problems that I have been seeing with the cadet side of this squadron and the excuse I am given every time I bring it up is that they have taken the teeth out of the regulations with the new "hazing guidelines". I have been told that the only real options are to refuse to let them participate and then boot them for failure to advance or just 2b them for failure to meet regulation. You are not allowed to single them out or make them feel bad. This is the same reason that I am told that I have to let cadets that dont meet the requirements (dont want to take the written test) to continue in the rocketry program. We dont have enough seniors to split them into two groups on meeting nights and we cant single them out and not let them participate. We have had an influx of seniors in the few months I have been here so I hope it changes soon.

We've gone so far with this anti-hazing stuff that we have such a hard time enforcing the regs. It really does come down to basically not allowing them to renew their membership or transferring them to another unit. I'm not where near that point yet, so I'm not advocating that. My point is that every time I bring up getting a haircut, it turns into a non-enforceable joke.

I finally pulled my C/CC aside and said "I don't want to embarrass you at all, but if I may ask, have you started shaving? I know you're 15, and you're at that age. It's an awkward thing to ask, but you're getting these unsightly black hairs extending from your chin, and I'm going to make the call and say you're out of regs. I've seen some of the other cadets show up like this as well. You just addressed haircuts while performing uniform inspections. Start addressing the shaving requirements. You're in charge, meaning you need to present yourself as wearing that uniform perfectly." (paraphrasing)

Telling a cadet that he/she is not meeting the requirements of the program is not singling them out for the purpose of harassment, embarrassment, or punishment. Your senior leadership needs to grow some cojones.

Unfortunately, this is what we've done to society now. We're babying these kids and not holding them accountable for a lack of professionalism. It comes with wearing the uniform. If you don't want to meet the standards, don't wear the uniform. I addressed this with all of my NCOs yesterday, and told them that they need to start acting like leaders, which includes appearance. I even through in some Total Force on them as an incentive. "If you guys want to wear a uniform and look like little kids, go join the Boy Scouts. If you want to put on a service uniform and present yourself as a component of the Air Force, ready to go out and perform real live-saving missions, then you need to start figuring out what is going to motivate you to behave as such."

Four years ago, a 17 year old C/MSGT, inactive for five months, breezes back into my command in badly wrinkled, dirty blues with long hair, grinning at me in opening formation. (Note: know that adolescents, by their very nature, test limits and this guy acknowledged that he knew he was badly out of standards). 

I've had that situation far too much. If one thing really sets me off, it's intentionally trying to set me off. I've made it a habit of watching when someone does it with the C/CC or First Sergeant, and I've pulled them aside and told them to get back in front of their subordinates and address the entire unit about respecting their superiors, and that I expect to observe a lesson on responding to orders and maintaining their bearing in formation. Fall them out, fall them back in. If it's not right, do it again. Again....again.....again. "Everybody having fun? The day goes by much better when you aren't screwing around, doesn't it?" I've pulled my NCOs aside when I see them catch the issue and address it immediately, and I praise them for stepping up and taking responsibility for their elements.

Leading by example is a huge part of it.

A major issue these days is that we have people in leadership positions who are so afraid of enforcing policies and getting that phone call later on with "I don't like you telling my kid....blah blah blah."

Look, either your kid wears the uniform properly, or he/she can start skipping meetings until their membership expires.

[Jaison009]

 :clap: :clap: :clap:

My specific examples (just like at TLC):

- Leaving several encampments, I've observed new graduates on occasion at the nearest burger joint starting to enter in BDUs with shower shoes, or blues with no cover. While we all get it - they are finally released from a week of discipline - I have stopped to approach them in front of their parents to identify myself and quietly ask that they be all the way in, or all the way out, of uniform, in order to honor that uniform and show public respect thereby to those before us who died wearing it. I point out that the aspect of discipline now has shifted to SELF discipline, and the ball is in their court. Usually the initial reaction is a pained expression, but phrased that way, without pushing my rank or threatening to take names and report people, it works well, especially if the parents are listening. I usually suggest that they take advantage of the restaurant restroom to change.

- Four years ago, a 17 year old C/MSGT, inactive for five months, breezes back into my command in badly wrinkled, dirty blues with long hair, grinning at me in opening formation. (Note: know that adolescents, by their very nature, test limits and this guy acknowledged that he knew he was badly out of standards).  I asked him if he drove himself (yes), verified that he had cash, and had him call his folks and tell them that he was being told to drive a mile down the road to get a regulation haircut. He came back in an hour with a good haircut, but that was the last we ever saw of him. On one hand, this dilettante of a cadet quit, but on the other hand, it sent a powerful message to the rest of the corps that we demand adherence to standards to honor that uniform.

- Twenty years ago, at 0600L, I denied a cadet permission to board the unit vehicle to travel to Encampment due to his failure to obey a direct order to correct his shave and grooming prior to the event. His parents knew our standards ahead of time, and accepted that they needed to get him a dawn haircut and shave and drive him up themselves later that day. He went on to earn his Earhart (believe he made Spaatz, but not sure, I moved).

- A 16 year old C/2LT, GTM3/2/1 qualified, CAC rep presents at his promotion board in Class A blues which are perfect but with hair over his ears. We complete the promotion board, and I counsel him that his promotion is approved in all respects other than in his grooming. Accordingly, I tell him, he is denied this week and is required to report to me the next meeting within standards. The next week not only does he show up with a high and tight, his entire Flight shows up with outstanding haircuts, as the convert spreads the message.

- Three weeks ago my new 17 year old C/CC presented at opening formation with a hairy chin. I directed him (quietly, with only his deputy in earshot) to remove himself from formation and go below decks to my inbox, where I keep a bag of disposable razors, and to use the men's room hot water and soap to get that chin smooth as a Dutch babys rear.  Last week, he smiled and acknowledged that he'd bought his own bag of razors, and had privately grabbed a couple of other older cadets prior to opening and had them freshen up.  Lessons learned: praise in public, correct in private, adhere to standards, and finally, "attitudes are contagious - both positively and negatively".

- I encourage my cadets to cross inspect ME during inspection, and to respectfully suggest what might be out of order on my uniform (e.g. hint hint; missing flag patch on one set of BDUs, or loose cables on another, or a gig line off center...). I expect quiet, friendly, helpful correction to standards, and want them to get practice in giving such feedback without power tripping and turning into a Gunny Hartman.  I accept that I have imperfections as well, and need the message to go out that "none of us are righteous, no not one", and we need to show the core value of Respect by supporting each other in this manner.


My summary:

Do not hesitate to deny a promotion. Don't hesitate to deny participation in an activity. Do counsel privately if possible. Do your best to set a good example yourself, and acknowledge your own failings. Be humane and understanding, but balance that practicality with a refusal to let people treat a USAF style uniform as tantamount to a mere costume. Do remember to give POSTIVE praise and reinforcement whenever possible, as that is a nurturing behavior that, when withheld from their more "marginal" peers, can act as a strong social pressure for your troops to become more - uniform.  Uniforms, properly viewed, are yet another leadership tool to assist you in influencing and directing a group of people in a way that will win their obedience, confidence, respect, and loyal cooperation in achieving a common objective or goal.


V/R,
Spam

[Jaison009]

I was a cadet from 96-04. We did a uniform inspection with a uniform gauge (nearly all of our cadets including myself were also Army JROTC so we knew the drill) with demerits every Monday night that went very much the same. I will not lie and say I wasn't anal about shined boots and uniforms. Our entire cadet staff was and there were many times things came off of a uniform. The spyderco worked particularly well for cutting patches off. Not saying its right but that is how many of us grew up in the cadet program and learned personal initiative. I learned to iron and somewhat sew as a result of this. My dad was Army and he didn't take my CAP or JROTC uniforms to the cleaners, I did them by hand or it was my job to take them. My boots looked like glass because we were the example for other cadets. Yes the number of hours spent on them was ridiculous; however, it taught me a lot about taking time and doing something right. I could spit shine them and see myself or I could use cheater polish or melt the polish and ruin them forever. We also did a promotion board for every grade with formal reporting and the works. We made little stuff a big deal and it made us better cadets for it.

Seam ripper = small knife used to separate a seam without damaging the cloth. It quickly removes the patch without damaging the uniform.

Usually if it was a crooked pin, he would remove it and hand it to a cadet, and have them correct it in the mirror after inspection. A crooked patch would be removed, and the cadet would be told to put it in their pocket and sew it back on over the next week.

As a young cadet, I didn't see anything wrong with it, but now as a senior I obviously see why it would be frowned upon. The positive side though, most cadets took better care to get it right before inspection.

When I became C/CC, my inspections were just as tough, but lacked the seam ripper. If the patch was horribly wrong though, I would usually ask the Cadet to remove it, and we would pin it in place correctly before they left, so they knew where it needed to be sewn.

Agreed only one person needs to be telling a Cadet where to obtain their new uniform parts, what to get, and how to assemble them, and that person needs to be well informed. The worst thing is to tell a Cadet something that isn't authorized and have them spend money on it, plus time putting it on a uniform, only to be told at inspection it is wrong.

[jdh]

I was a cadet from 96-04. We did a uniform inspection with a uniform gauge (nearly all of our cadets including myself were also Army JROTC so we knew the drill) with demerits every Monday night that went very much the same. I will not lie and say I wasn't anal about shined boots and uniforms. Our entire cadet staff was and there were many times things came off of a uniform. The spyderco worked particularly well for cutting patches off. Not saying its right but that is how many of us grew up in the cadet program and learned personal initiative. I learned to iron and somewhat sew as a result of this. My dad was Army and he didn't take my CAP or JROTC uniforms to the cleaners, I did them by hand or it was my job to take them. My boots looked like glass because we were the example for other cadets. Yes the number of hours spent on them was ridiculous; however, it taught me a lot about taking time and doing something right. I could spit shine them and see myself or I could use cheater polish or melt the polish and ruin them forever. We also did a promotion board for every grade with formal reporting and the works. We made little stuff a big deal and it made us better cadets for it.

Seam ripper = small knife used to separate a seam without damaging the cloth. It quickly removes the patch without damaging the uniform.

Usually if it was a crooked pin, he would remove it and hand it to a cadet, and have them correct it in the mirror after inspection. A crooked patch would be removed, and the cadet would be told to put it in their pocket and sew it back on over the next week.

As a young cadet, I didn't see anything wrong with it, but now as a senior I obviously see why it would be frowned upon. The positive side though, most cadets took better care to get it right before inspection.

When I became C/CC, my inspections were just as tough, but lacked the seam ripper. If the patch was horribly wrong though, I would usually ask the Cadet to remove it, and we would pin it in place correctly before they left, so they knew where it needed to be sewn.

Agreed only one person needs to be telling a Cadet where to obtain their new uniform parts, what to get, and how to assemble them, and that person needs to be well informed. The worst thing is to tell a Cadet something that isn't authorized and have them spend money on it, plus time putting it on a uniform, only to be told at inspection it is wrong.

That's how my experience as a cadet was, both CAP and JROTC. We were held to the standard and we held the cadets under us to the same.

UPDATE: I have had a few cadets (the older and more mature ones) that have seen what I'm trying to get across to them and are trying their hardest to learn the right way of doing things, which is great. Even though I'm not on the cadet side of the squadron primally there are a group of cadets that have been working closely with me on ES that are starting to ask a lot of questions on how to improve as cadets as a whole.  The new CDC has little experience with a lot of what goes on and is looking to me for some guidance and is willing to learn how to do it right. Now that we have more seniors in the squadron and can have someone babysit the cadets that aren't up to snuff we are starting to leave them out of activities that they didn't do the required work to be able to participate in, which I do feel is helping those that are working hard and will hopefully motivate the others to work harder so that they aren't sitting on the outside watching everyone else have fun.