Uniform(s) worn most frequently?

[johnnyb47]

Johnny, you are nit-picking (excuse the pun). When you do that you lose sight of the forest.

When the commander says "UOD is AF Blues," he has specified. Plain and simple.

Flyer

I don't actually have a horse in this particular race... so no big deal here to me.
But I disagree.
The table previously cited refers to the knit shirt as an equivalent to AF Blues.
If the commander doesn't want it, he or she has to specifically state it.

[johnnyb47]

In this instance you do have to remember;
The polo shirt is ONLY equivalent when the commander doesn't say that it isn't.
Of the three it is the only one that the commander can tell you not to wear when blues is prescribed.

So it may be equal.... but the second a commander says, "our members may never wear a polo to our meetings" it no longer is.
Would most? Probably not. But they can.

I guess this goes to the discussion that some people shouldn't be commanders.  A leader that would ostracize productive members shouldn't expect much sympathy from upper echelons when things don't get done.

They aren't ostracized if there is a uniform that is always equivalent to the AF blues uniform that everyone can always wear.
That would be the aviator combo.

[Eclipse]

I guess this goes to the discussion that some people shouldn't be commanders.  A leader that would ostracize productive members shouldn't expect much sympathy from upper echelons when things don't get done.

George Patton disagreed somewhat strongly.

Also, who said anything about "ostracized", that's a pretty big leap.  How many times do you let a cadet wearing his school gym uniform on
blues night show up before he's told to wear the UOD?

[Elioron]

Also, who said anything about "ostracized", that's a pretty big leap.  How many times do you let a cadet wearing his school gym uniform on
blues night show up before he's told to wear the UOD?

Talk about a big leap!!  Show me where a school gym uniform is considered a valid equivalent to Blues.  The polo is.  It's not an issue unless the commander decides to make it an issue, thus it is his responsibility for any repercussions.  If you have people lining up to fill all of your staff positions and assistants, good for you but you do not represent the majority of CAP.  If a commander is going to be a dick about the polo shirt, they're probably being a dick about other things as well.

[jeders]

If a commander is going to be a dick about wants to enforce the rules in regard to the polo shirt, they're probably being a dick about enforcing the rules in regard to other things as well.

FTFY

[Elioron]

If a commander is going to be a dick about wants to enforce the rules in regard to the polo shirt, they're probably being a dick about enforcing the rules in regard to other things as well.

FTFY

Rules allow the polo.  If he doesn't, it's his decision, not the rules.

[Майор Хаткевич]

The polo is a cheap equivalent to the AF short-sleeved blues.  For $24 you can have the member show up in uniform while they put together the other combinations.  Some on this board evidently have no issues finding large numbers of financially well-off people swelling their membership.

If you are telling people in the polo combination they are not in uniform when the UOD is blues, you are wrong.

Cite please.

CAPR 39-1, Chap 4, Table 4-8

I should have been more clear.

If you are telling people in the polo combination they are not in uniform when the UOD is blues, you are wrong.

Cite this one.

Here are my two examples. I go to SLS. UOD is Blues or G/Ws. ONE goober is in a polo. No one says a [stupid] word. The next day THREE people are in Polos. The exact same thing happened at a TLC. You know, a class for SMs who need to know how to wear uniforms right and should be wearing them as they work with cadets.

[Eclipse]

Show me where a school gym uniform is considered a valid equivalent to Blues.  The polo is.  It's not an issue unless the commander decides to make it an issue, thus it is his responsibility for any repercussions.  If you have people lining up to fill all of your staff positions and assistants, good for you but you do not represent the majority of CAP.  If a commander is going to be a dick about the polo shirt, they're probably being a dick about other things as well.

Commanders are expected and duty-bound to enforce the regulations and insure discipline and good order.
Setting and enforcing a UOD is one of those things that does that.

If the only discussion point a commander is having is regarding the uniform, something is wrong.
However a confident commander running a full program will set the UOD as a matter of course and move
on because everyone has real work to do.  He will set the example by insuring the rules apply to him first
above all, and at all times his uniform will be exemplary and correct.

Members who don't comply with the UOD are not "ostracized", but after a few times, a professional, discreet
discussion is had, and barring some legitimate reason for non-compliance, it wil be up to the commander how to
proceed.  Any member who chooses not to be on the same train as everyone else in the room isn't likely
to be interested in the direction that train is going and may do better finding a different unit, echelon,
or organization.

Otherwise, you have the situation many CAP units have today - undermanned units on the verge of
being shutdown if "Jimmy quits.", and "Jimmy doesn't like ties".  So Jimmy always looks different and
no one has the fortitude to address it directly.

Obviously this is not "I worked late, the cleaners ate my last shirt, or I misread the UOD." People make mistakes.
There's a difference between that and "Loophole!"

[Майор Хаткевич]

If a commander is going to be a dick about wants to enforce the rules in regard to the polo shirt, they're probably being a dick about enforcing the rules in regard to other things as well.

FTFY

Rules allow the polo.  If he doesn't, it's his decision, command prerogative not the rules.

FTFY x 2

[Elioron]

If a commander is going to be a dick about wants to enforce the rules in regard to the polo shirt, they're probably being a dick about enforcing the rules in regard to other things as well.

FTFY

Let me be even more clear.  If a commander tells people not to participate because he doesn't like a uniform approved by NHQ for wear, then he is probably going to make other equally subjective decisions to discourage participation.

This isn't the military, uniforms aren't issued.  People help because they want to.  If what they have available is a polo and that isn't good enough for you, you have to ask why you're putting your personal bias ahead of the mission.

[Майор Хаткевич]

If a commander is going to be a dick about wants to enforce the rules in regard to the polo shirt, they're probably being a dick about enforcing the rules in regard to other things as well.

FTFY

Let me be even more clear.  If a commander tells people not to participate because he doesn't like a uniform approved by NHQ for wear, then he is probably going to make other equally subjective decisions to discourage participation.

This isn't the military, uniforms aren't issued.  People help because they want to.  If what they have available is a polo and that isn't good enough for you, you have to ask why you're putting your personal bias ahead of the mission.

Lets see. Formal events. Promotion ceremonies. Special Events. Maybe the fact that you need to have one, and if a UOD says Blues or G/Ws it means don't look like a goober in the room?

[Luis R. Ramos]

...but they would not have the Polo had they read the rules, had the appropriate discussion with the Commander in the first place. Where the commander would have said "required uniforms are the AF Blues or the Aviator shirt combo. No Polo."

Flyer

[jeders]

If a commander is going to be a dick about wants to enforce the rules in regard to the polo shirt, they're probably being a dick about enforcing the rules in regard to other things as well.

FTFY

Let me be even more clear.  If a commander tells people not to participate because he doesn't like a uniform approved by NHQ for wear, then he is probably going to make other equally subjective decisions to discourage participation.

This isn't the military, uniforms aren't issued.  People help because they want to.  If what they have available is a polo and that isn't good enough for you, you have to ask why you're putting your personal bias ahead of the mission.

It's not personal bias, it's discipline and good order. When you joined CAP you agreed to follow the rules and regulations and the orders of the officers over you. If the CC says no polo, as he is allowed to, then it is you putting personal bias ahead of the mission by either a) saying, "no I won't, you can't make me," or b) saying, "I'm taking my toys and going home."

...but they would not have the Polo had they read the rules, had the appropriate discussion with the Commander in the first place. Where the commander would have said "required uniforms are the AF Blues or the Aviator shirt combo."

Flyer

+1

[Elioron]

Otherwise, you have the situation many CAP units have today - undermanned units on the verge of
being shutdown if "Jimmy quits.", and "Jimmy doesn't like ties".  So Jimmy always looks different and
no one has the fortitude to address it directly.

If the issue is fixed by a uniform that is already approved by NHQ as an equivalent, then sending "Jimmy" packing is rather irresponsible.  It would be different if "Jimmy" refused to wear any uniform, but that's not what we're talking about.  We're talking about a commander that refuses to allow an authorized uniform just because he can.

[Elioron]

...but they would not have the Polo had they read the rules, had the appropriate discussion with the Commander in the first place. Where the commander would have said "required uniforms are the AF Blues or the Aviator shirt combo. No Polo."

Flyer

They would just not have come.  For me, that would have been six months.  Fortunately my commander at the time valued my time and effort rather than pursuing a misguided crusade against an approved uniform.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Otherwise, you have the situation many CAP units have today - undermanned units on the verge of
being shutdown if "Jimmy quits.", and "Jimmy doesn't like ties".  So Jimmy always looks different and
no one has the fortitude to address it directly.

If the issue is fixed by a uniform that is already approved by NHQ as an equivalent, then sending "Jimmy" packing is rather irresponsible.  It would be different if "Jimmy" refused to wear any uniform, but that's not what we're talking about.  We're talking about a commander that refuses to allow an authorized uniform just because he can.

So...if you had a Black Tie wedding, and I showed up in my work cargo pants with oil stains on them, that's all good with you?

[Eclipse]

If the issue is fixed by a uniform that is already approved by NHQ as an equivalent, then sending "Jimmy" packing is rather irresponsible.  It would be different if "Jimmy" refused to wear any uniform, but that's not what we're talking about.  We're talking about a commander that refuses to allow an authorized uniform just because he can.

No, we're not.  Until you understand the difference, there's not much here to discuss.

[JC004]

[Elioron]

So...if you had a Black Tie wedding, and I showed up in my work cargo pants with oil stains on them, that's all good with you?

If I had a black tie wedding, wanted you there, and knew that you didn't have appropriate clothes I would have three options: Make the dress code something you have, get you the clothes, or tell you you're not worth either of these options.

[Майор Хаткевич]

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