Marksmanship badge

Wynn1 · July 10, 2012, 11:20:12 PM

Does anyone know the regulation for the marksmanship badge? Also, if you have a marksmanship badge could you post a photo of it from your uniform?

Thrashed · July 10, 2012, 11:46:10 PM

We have guns now? Why do we need this badge? Even if you got it in the military, why wear it on a CAP uniform?

abdsp51 · July 10, 2012, 11:54:45 PM

Have you consulted CAPM39-1 or asked around your unit?

Wynn1 · July 11, 2012, 12:03:19 AM

Yes I have looked in 39-1 and I am the Cadet Commander, I have cadets asking me for the answer.

Eclipse · July 11, 2012, 12:21:18 AM

Which type of badge, one earned in the military and worn on the USAF-Style blues, or one earned in a marksmanship program as a cadet?

For the former, the badge has to be approved for wear by the USAF. Army Marksmanship badges, for example, are not authorized.

As to the latter, there are no currently approved marksmanship badge that can be earned as a CAP member and worn on any CAP uniform.
The NRA program listed in 39-1 no longer exists, and the current program has not been authorized. They are not the same programs or badges.

There is a lot of conversation on this topic in other threads.

ol'fido · July 11, 2012, 12:26:50 AM

A lot of other threads.

Critical AOA · July 11, 2012, 12:35:45 AM

As an Army vet, I see no need to wear my marksmanship badge on my CAP uniform. What is the purpose? I also do not see a need for it for the cadets just as I do not understand why anyone believes a ranger tab is needed or appropriate. I think we need to keep things simple and keep the items on the uniform to a minimum. I know that we are an auxiliary to the AF but we are the civilian auxiliary.

ol'fido · July 11, 2012, 01:15:35 AM

Radioman is that you?

PHall · July 11, 2012, 02:32:20 AM

Quote from: David Vandenbroeck on July 11, 2012, 12:35:45 AM
As an Army vet, I see no need to wear my marksmanship badge on my CAP uniform. What is the purpose? I also do not see a need for it for the cadets just as I do not understand why anyone believes a ranger tab is needed or appropriate. I think we need to keep things simple and keep the items on the uniform to a minimum. I know that we are an auxiliary to the AF but we are the civilian auxiliary.

I don't believe he's talking about Army or even Air Force markmanship badges. He's talking about the NRA badge. Entirely different animal.

Wynn1 · July 11, 2012, 03:20:00 AM

Yes, at our recent encampment we went and shot 22's and we got NRA approved to wear the badge. But I cannot find anywhere in 39-1 on how to wear it. However I have seen cadets that have earned it and
Wear it on their uniform.

abdsp51 · July 11, 2012, 03:33:29 AM

CAPM 39-1 Table 6-2 line 11

Junior National Rifle Association Marksmanship Badge.
(Earned in accordance with NRA program. Cadets only)

Men: with the top edge centered on the left pocket flap of the service coat or shirt when worn as an outer-garment.
Women: in the same position as specialty insignia (above the ribbons and beneath the wings).

Eclipse · July 11, 2012, 03:35:25 AM

That program no longer exists.

abdsp51 · July 11, 2012, 03:40:05 AM

Quote from: Eclipse on July 11, 2012, 03:35:25 AM
That program no longer exists.

Just goes to show how badly 39-1 needs to be updated.

Wynn1 · July 11, 2012, 04:34:57 AM

Okay I found it in 39-1. So it clearly states that we can wear it. Am I okay to put it on my uniform?

SarDragon · July 11, 2012, 04:42:41 AM

Please reread the thread.

The badge you have is not a part of the program that authorizes the badge in the 39-1. Half the people you talk to will say it's OK to wear the new badge. The other half will say it isn't. I side with the second group, because in this case, it is better to err on the side of caution.

a2capt · July 11, 2012, 07:05:59 AM

In English.

The badge is actually the same.

The program that it is awarded under now is NOT the same as the NRA program that CAPM 39-1 authorizes. The badge is worn to show you've completed something .. that you can no longer complete because the NRA no longer offers that curriculum.

So, NO. You can NOT wear the badge, however cadets that did earn it under that program that CAPM 39-1 speaks of can still wear it.

... if there are any left, they are -REALLY- -OLD- -CADETS- ...

It's being worked on.. funny thing, too. We had this discussion after the meeting tonight, as we are planning another NRA weekend activity and are going to yet again follow up on some contacts made at the last NSC on getting this thing cleared up, and it's not happened yet.

Critical AOA · July 11, 2012, 02:18:49 PM

I guess next we will have cadets who take a tandem parachute jump wanting to wear airborne wings.

RogueLeader · July 11, 2012, 03:09:57 PM

Quote from: David Vandenbroeck on July 11, 2012, 02:18:49 PM
I guess next we will have cadets who take a tandem parachute jump wanting to wear airborne wings.

I once saw a cadet with jump wings (he earned them too).

Pylon · July 11, 2012, 03:31:46 PM

Quote from: RogueLeader on July 11, 2012, 03:09:57 PMI once saw a cadet with jump wings (he earned them too).

Totally plausable. Some ROTC programs (maybe just AROTC?) send more senior cadets to Benning during the summers; plus USAFA cadets can earn the same lead sleds via a parachuting class at the zoo, IIRC. (On an unrelated note: It kills me though; we have all sorts of guys in my infantry unit who've been dying for a slot to Benning for years and can't get one.)

On the topic of the marksmanship badge, I'd be on-board with converting the program to a small-arms marksmanship ribbon that mirrors the behaviour of the Air Force in this regard. Heck, institute the same qualification test as the USAF. So do as much or as little marksmanship training you want (because the training itself wouldn't qualify you for an award), either in or out of CAP, and then if cadets subsequently run a course of qualification with an appropriate weapon at the local range and meet the qualifying score, they get a CAP Cadet Small-Arms Marksmanship Ribbon. Mirrors the Air Force and doesn't depend on a specific program by an outside organization that is prone to change over time.

Hawk200 · July 11, 2012, 05:21:05 PM

I don't think CAP should have it's own marksmanship ribbon or badge. I see way too many people going ape over a civilian auxiliary of the Air Force providing "marksmanship training." (Which would be an easy jump to make logically.) Our own unique decoration seems like it would be a trouble magnet.

I think it would be pretty easy to insert a line in publication "NRA marksmanship badges may be worn when awarded by the NRA. A copy of the certificate (or whatever documentation is given) awarding the badge will be maintained in the members personnel file."

Simple and easy, and CAP isn't taking any responsibility, either real or implied, that we are providing such training. We don't need any negative stigma.

On a semirelated note, Civilian Marksmanship Program badges should be authorized to include all branches as well as the civilian equivalents (most of the requirements are the same anyway, the only major difference is the physical badges). If a cadet can wear a marksmanship badge, why shouldn't a senior be allowed the same recognition?

I just have a problem with reinventing the wheel, which generally doesn't provide any improvement anyway.