NRA qualifications badge

[Eclipse]

Not sure if this is the same badge, but this is straight from the CAP News Site.

http://www.capvolunteernow.com/news/?sc_cadets_earn_nra_markmanship_badges&show=news&newsID=13101

Yep - no one said you can't earn the current NRA badges.  You just can't wear them on the CAP uniform.

[Private Investigator]

Not sure if this is the same badge, but this is straight from the CAP News Site.

http://www.capvolunteernow.com/news/?sc_cadets_earn_nra_markmanship_badges&show=news&newsID=13101

Yep - no one said you can't earn the current NRA badges.  You just can't wear them on the CAP uniform.

Roger that.

Interesting link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marksmanship_Badge_(United_States)

I was actually the Team Captain for ten years on the pistol team. I have indiviually, one regional and five state championships and numerous team awards. When Fort Knox is short on gold, they give me a call.   

[ol'fido]

Chances are most cadets can't shoot in competitions (Obviously not true for skeeter). Competition shooting is way different than "shooting with dad" or whatever cadet snuffy wants to say to get a Marksmanship badge.

Ahhhh  no....and the new NRA program does not require shooting in competition....it just requires that you show consistant/repetitive ability to shoot to a certain accuracy.

Well thats dumb. Competition shooting actually teaches you how to shoot.

The "consistent/repetitive ability to shoot to a certain accuracy" is a byproduct of knowing how to shoot.

IMHO, target shooting has three components for success - gun safety, sight alignment, and trigger control. What else is there to knowing how to shoot, within that context, in your opinion?

breathe and heart control. How to align your body so you have a stable platform.

Ideally all you should see is the end sight move slightly every few seconds (heart rate) and time your shot.

But that is for precision shooting (level above normal competitions). Precision air rifles are like 5,000 on up.

Competition shooting teaches you proper form. Any yahoo with half a mind can understand gun safety, trigger control, and to line up his target in the sight. You could get reasonably on target with some consistency without understanding how to stand, kneel, or lay prone. Or how to stop breathing, rather than hold your breathe.

It is about a stable shooting platform.

Heart rate has nothing to do with with accuracy what so ever.  Accuracy is based on breathing, sight picture and trigger squeeze that movement you see is related to breathing and involuntary muscle movements/muscle fatigue.  If you do not have a solid platform prior to competitions you will fail, competition does not teach proper form or platforms.  Competition shooting teaches if anything muscle memory and refinement not the basics.

"Rifle marksmanship clinics are known as "Appleseeds." These clinics are run over a period of two days and take shooters from the basics of firing a shot to more complex courses of fire from several shooting positions. Project Appleseed uses United States Army techniques to teach its participants the skills of becoming a rifleman: a "marksman capable of hitting a man-sized target from 500 yards away."[4]

Two elements are fundamental to Appleseed rifle clinics: the Six Steps to Firing a Shot and natural point of aim (NPOA). The Six Steps to Firing a shot as taught by the Appleseed Project are:

1.   Sight alignment: Alignment of the front and rear sights.
2.  Sight picture: Bringing the aligned sights onto the target.
3.   Respiratory pause: A person's natural breathing raises and lowers the rifle. When one achieves a perfect sight picture while exhaling, one must hold her/his breath to remain on target.
4.   Focus
     a.   Focus the eyes on the front sight
      b.  Focus the mind on keeping the front sight on the target
5.    Squeeze the trigger: Steadily squeeze the trigger. Do not jerk the trigger, but squeeze.
6.    Follow through: There are two important facets to following through. First, one must take a mental snapshot of where the sights were when the shot was fired so that the shooter can have instant feedback and can call the shot to know where it impacted the target. Second, one must hold the trigger back for a moment and then release it slowly to prepare for the next shot. [5]

Natural point of aim is a firing technique that does not rely on the shooter's muscles to aim the rifle. Using a sling, a relaxed body, and the NPOA technique, the rifleman can consistently shoot 4 MOA groups at 500 yards."

www.appleseedinfo.org

Project Appleseed is geared towards beginning shooters. i have seen kids on the line as young as 8. This would IMHO be a great activity for CAP to embrace with its emphasis on safety, history, and civic responsibility and service. Not a lot of bling(no badges). They do issue a Rifleman patch to those that score 210 or above on the AQT. Also, basic .22 LR rifles are the preferred rifle of choice.

[Dad2-4]

Yep - no one said you can't earn the current NRA badges.  You just can't wear them on the CAP uniform.

+1

Horse!.....hey horse!......hmm.....must be dead.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Yep - no one said you can't earn the current NRA badges.  You just can't wear them on the CAP uniform.

+1

Horse!.....hey horse!......hmm.....must be dead.

Apparently not. Still keeps happening.

[GroundHawg]

CAP members may wear only the US military badges authorized for wear
on the US Air Force uniform when earned through qualification and awarded by competent authority for
service performed in any branch of the Armed Forces of the United States or its allies. The military
badges authorized for wear on the CAP uniform and BDU are listed in Table 6-5. Before wearing any
badge not listed in this table, contact National Headquarters/LMM for clarification.

I don't see any provision in AFI36-2903 for wear of other service EIC badges, since the awarding authority for the authorized EIC badges is HQ AFSVA, and there is no mention of the gold level badges authorized by the other services.

The AF EIC badges are specifically mentioned in CAPM 39-1.

Admittedly, both regs are vague at best.

39-1 table 6-5 showing auth military (note not USAF, but all military) badges on CAP uniform, lists AF Distinguished Rifle and Pistol; but then when listing the EIC and Distinguished International Shooter badges, does not list them as USAF specific.
I say he is good to go with USMC EIC badges. 39-1 says EIC badges are good to go, and does not specify which service. If anyone takes an issue with it they can deal with the MGySgt. themselves

[Private Investigator]

If anyone takes an issue with it they can deal with the MGySgt. themselves

Or with the Gunner   

[PHall]

CAP members may wear only the US military badges authorized for wear
on the US Air Force uniform when earned through qualification and awarded by competent authority for
service performed in any branch of the Armed Forces of the United States or its allies. The military
badges authorized for wear on the CAP uniform and BDU are listed in Table 6-5. Before wearing any
badge not listed in this table, contact National Headquarters/LMM for clarification.

I don't see any provision in AFI36-2903 for wear of other service EIC badges, since the awarding authority for the authorized EIC badges is HQ AFSVA, and there is no mention of the gold level badges authorized by the other services.

The AF EIC badges are specifically mentioned in CAPM 39-1.

Admittedly, both regs are vague at best.

39-1 table 6-5 showing auth military (note not USAF, but all military) badges on CAP uniform, lists AF Distinguished Rifle and Pistol; but then when listing the EIC and Distinguished International Shooter badges, does not list them as USAF specific.
I say he is good to go with USMC EIC badges. 39-1 says EIC badges are good to go, and does not specify which service. If anyone takes an issue with it they can deal with the MGySgt. themselves

I would do as the 39-1 directs and call National HQ about this. If they approve then he can wear it plus he'll have a piece of paper from them to wave at the Uniform "experts".

[A.Member]

Earlier posts indicating that the NRA badge is not authorized appear to be incorrect.

Look at 39-1, table 6-2, Item 11.  The NRA badge is listed along with description of it's location for wear.

[RogueLeader]

Earlier posts indicating that the NRA badge is not authorized appear to be incorrect.

Look at 39-1, table 6-2, Item 11.  The NRA badge is listed along with description of it's location for wear.

Yes, but that badge is no longer offered, as the program has changed to new criteria and a new badge.   It is a different badge than what is described by the regs.  It cannot be worn.

[A.Member]

Earlier posts indicating that the NRA badge is not authorized appear to be incorrect.

Look at 39-1, table 6-2, Item 11.  The NRA badge is listed along with description of it's location for wear.

Yes, but that badge is no longer offered, as the program has changed to new criteria and a new badge.   It is a different badge than what is described by the regs.  It cannot be worn.

How so?  Reference?

[RogueLeader]

Earlier posts indicating that the NRA badge is not authorized appear to be incorrect.

Look at 39-1, table 6-2, Item 11.  The NRA badge is listed along with description of it's location for wear.

Yes, but that badge is no longer offered, as the program has changed to new criteria and a new badge.   It is a different badge than what is described by the regs.  It cannot be worn.

How so?  Reference?

Search and read all the NRA threads, just about all of them reference the cite.

[GroundHawg]

Earlier posts indicating that the NRA badge is not authorized appear to be incorrect.

Look at 39-1, table 6-2, Item 11.  The NRA badge is listed along with description of it's location for wear.

Yes, but that badge is no longer offered, as the program has changed to new criteria and a new badge.   It is a different badge than what is described by the regs.  It cannot be worn.

How so?  Reference?

The nitpickers on here are of the opinion that since the NRA brought on sponsorship of their Jr. Marksmanship program and renamed it the NRA Winchester Jr. Marksmanship Badge, that it is no longer allowed to be worn on a CAP uniform as our regs have not changed the verbage as of yet.
I say, as well as knowledgebase, and our national commander, that the intent of the regulation has not changed and the badges should be worn. I think that punishing Cadet morale because the NRA is offsetting their costs through a marketing sponsorship is petty at best.

[Eclipse]

There are the regs, and what people say.

Which counts?

Nothing we currently have approved meets the definition of any current program.  NHQ can fix it with a memo, yet they haven't.

Ergo.

[A.Member]

Earlier posts indicating that the NRA badge is not authorized appear to be incorrect.

Look at 39-1, table 6-2, Item 11.  The NRA badge is listed along with description of it's location for wear.

Yes, but that badge is no longer offered, as the program has changed to new criteria and a new badge.   It is a different badge than what is described by the regs.  It cannot be worn.

How so?  Reference?

The nitpickers on here are of the opinion that since the NRA brought on sponsorship of their Jr. Marksmanship program and renamed it the NRA Winchester Jr. Marksmanship Badge, that it is no longer allowed to be worn on a CAP uniform as our regs have not changed the verbage as of yet.
I say, as well as knowledgebase, and our national commander, that the intent of the regulation has not changed and the badges should be worn. I think that punishing Cadet morale because the NRA is offsetting their costs through a marketing sponsorship is petty at best.

While I agree there may be some semantics here, I disagree that this issue is addressed or in any way clarified through Knowledgebase or any documents/letters from our National Commander.   

Also, the Winchester/NRA Marksmanship program does not have the word "Junior" in it, nor do any of their awards/badges:
http://materials.nrahq.org/go/products.aspx?cat=Medals%20and%20Bars

[a2capt]

IIRC, a unit near me still "issues" the surplus ones they've got, apparently...

... surplus, meaning the old badge for the old program that is no longer offered?

As for those who are of the opinion that NHQ says the regulation still applies, that's curious. Considering Ned's acknowledged it needs updating to cover the currently offered programs.

Whatever, go right on. But not in my unit, and if I see cadets wearing it, unless they are really old cadets, I'm going to say something through their chain of command about it. Be it chain of command of the event/activity, or their home unit, which ever applies.

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

The Winchester name change is recent.

The Junior National Rifle Association Marksmanship Badge no longer exists. All shooters follow the same qualification program. The current medal(s) don't have the Junior on them. There are 5 medals (Pro-Marksman, Marksman, Sharpshooter, Expert and Distinguished Expert).

The rating of Marksman First Class is designated by a bar added to the Marksman medal. The bars (1 to 9) for Sharpshooter and the firearm type (Rifle, Pistol or Shotgun) for Distinguished Expert are similar.

Personally I'd make the rules that:
You wear the highest medal you've earned.
You can wear 1 bar on the Sharpshooter medal (highest bar earned) and any of the DE bars you earned.

Add this to CAPR 39-3, change CAPM 39-1 to refer to 39-3 and it's all good.

[A.Member]

The Winchester name change is recent.

The Junior National Rifle Association Marksmanship Badge no longer exists. All shooters follow the same qualification program. The current medal(s) don't have the Junior on them. There are 5 medals (Pro-Marksman, Marksman, Sharpshooter, Expert and Distinguished Expert).

The rating of Marksman First Class is designated by a bar added to the Marksman medal. The bars (1 to 9) for Sharpshooter and the firearm type (Rifle, Pistol or Shotgun) for Distinguished Expert are similar.

Personally I'd make the rules that:
You wear the highest medal you've earned.
You can wear 1 bar on the Sharpshooter medal (highest bar earned) and any of the DE bars you earned.

Add this to CAPR 39-3, change CAPM 39-1 to refer to 39-3 and it's all good.

So, that's a proposal but not an existing authorization/regulation.   

I don't have the background on the program but what you propose makes sense.  I think the issue is that someone needs to bring this to National.   I saw in a previous thread that Ned offered to assist in moving a change forward but I didn't see anyone actually offer to take him up on it.

[a2capt]

The Winchester name change is recent.

2005.. could be recent, if you look on an the same scale as Global Warming

Put simply, it's not the same badge, it's not the same program, and it can not be worn. Ned Lee has even backed this up. Curiously, the KB article saying similar things appears to not be findable during a search for NRA, marksmanship, etc.

The regulation for it is being re-written, changes have been submitted. There's nothing to cite, except that I have seen the suggested proposed changes to make it work again. I would figure they have a lot of other more pressing regulations to revise too.

[a2capt]

I saw in a previous thread that Ned offered to assist in moving a change forward but I didn't see anyone actually offer to take him up on it.

..which is what I spoke of in the previous reply. It's been done.