Who Reviews CAP's Uniforms Authorization in the Air Force?

[RADIOMAN015]

I'm trying to figure out where in the USAF organization CAP's uniforms are reviewed & finally approved.
Looking at AF Policy Directive 10-27, Civil Air Patrol (Operations), it defines quite a few players involved with the oversight of CAP.     Tentatively it looks like it is USAF/XOS-HA.

The reason I ask, is I'm seriously considering having someone I know put in a Freedom of Information Act request to the AF for their documents on their review & disapproval / request for CAP not to use the Corporate Service Uniform and also the other uniform that was using the white shirt with the blue AF pants.

I think getting these documents would clear up once and for all the conspiracy theories involving the various dedicated BOG, NEC, & NB members.
RM     

[Major Carrales]

The reason I ask, is I'm seriously considering having someone I know put in a Freedom of Information Act request to the AF for their documents on their review & disapproval / request for CAP not to use the Corporate Service Uniform and also the other uniform that was using the white shirt with the blue AF pants. 

Don't you think that is a little extreme?  I know your CAPTALK credibility has suffered of late in some discussions but this is OVER THE TOP. 

Still, such information would settle these issues of rumor and innuendo that constantly comes up.

[jimmydeanno]

Why not just submit the request yourself?  Anyone can do it.  Why does it need to be "someone you know who..."

[Eclipse]

Open a window man...

[flyboy53]

I would think it would be a little easier, just calling Member Services at NHQ and asking that question to Susan Parker.

What's the point of a Freedom of Information Request? You may learn that that some information may not be available to you under that law. Besides, if you can't do it yourself, what's the point?

[NIN]

Wait till the Air Force says "piss off, you're a civilian.." (since that seems to be your mantra, anyway)

[lordmonar]

There may not be any actual records.

One of the dynamics of our working relationship is that we are a civilain corporation and the USAF has to handle use with care.

Go ahead and do you FOIA request.  I don't know what it will solve? 

[RADIOMAN015]

There may not be any actual records.

One of the dynamics of our working relationship is that we are a civilain corporation and the USAF has to handle use with care.

Go ahead and do you FOIA request.  I don't know what it will solve?

Surely those folks that spent a lot of money on the new uniform and others that also bought the blue pants and associated with the authorization just might have a interest :angel:   

My point is some members seem to doubt that the AF even cared about the uniform and that it was an internal CAP decision.  This would settle this once and for all wouldn't it

Also I was surprised that none of the membership went to their congressional representative at the time this happen because they can cut through the red tape pretty fast :angel:   

I would sincerely hope that decisions in CAP that affect many volunteer personnel are not being acted upon simply by a phone call from some Air Force official.   AF officials also have a responsibility to document their oversight of CAP as defined by federal law and implemented by Air Force regulations & policies, so even phone calls are sometimes documented with memos for the record.
RM 

[lordmonar]

Sometimes.

But let me say again........what would it accomplish?

Even if you prove that it was totally 100% a CAP internal decision that they blamed on the elusive "they".....what would it matter.
The uniform is gone.

As for your FOIA request:

Just go here http://www.foia.gov/how-to.html

[RiverAux]

Be sure to include a request for copies of any emails and not just "documents". 

[ol'fido]

Also, post-it notes, doodle pad scribbles, and Chinese food take-out receipts with notes written on the back.

[RADIOMAN015]

Wait till the Air Force says "piss off, you're a civilian.." (since that seems to be your mantra, anyway)

Yes there are certain things that are exempt from release to the public and there also is an appeal process IF one thinks that the non release violates federal law.   Our staff members are very familiar with the system.
RM

[Major Carrales]

Wait till the Air Force says "piss off, you're a civilian.." (since that seems to be your mantra, anyway)

Yes there are certain things that are exempt from release to the public and there also is an appeal process IF one thinks that the non release violates federal law.   Our staff members are very familiar with the system.
RM

As I said in another thread, you lost some credibility here on CAPTALK with some of your posts...expect to have your words thrown in your face for a while.  That...too... will pass.

[Spaceman3750]

Also, post-it notes, doodle pad scribbles, and Chinese food take-out receipts with notes written on the back.

Better get out the hair dryer for the Chinese take-out receipts - those notes are usually written in invisible ink, especially when CAP-USAF is involved!

[BuckeyeDEJ]

I'm trying to figure out where in the USAF organization CAP's uniforms are reviewed & finally approved.
Looking at AF Policy Directive 10-27, Civil Air Patrol (Operations), it defines quite a few players involved with the oversight of CAP.     Tentatively it looks like it is USAF/XOS-HA.

The reason I ask, is I'm seriously considering having someone I know put in a Freedom of Information Act request to the AF for their documents on their review & disapproval / request for CAP not to use the Corporate Service Uniform and also the other uniform that was using the white shirt with the blue AF pants.

I think getting these documents would clear up once and for all the conspiracy theories involving the various dedicated BOG, NEC, & NB members.
RM   

Oh, good Lord, who cares?

The double-breasted "corporate" uniform would likely have been knocked down sooner or later anyway -- the process by which it came into being was illegal by CAP regulation, and any fool could see it was going to cause issues with the Air Force if you knew our history with uniforms.

If you have sour grapes because you shelled out money for the CSU, that's on you. It was your decision to make the purchase, to invest in a bad idea. Don't blame CAP-USAF or a HAF directorate for trying to restore some sanity.

[flyboy53]

I'm trying to figure out where in the USAF organization CAP's uniforms are reviewed & finally approved.
Looking at AF Policy Directive 10-27, Civil Air Patrol (Operations), it defines quite a few players involved with the oversight of CAP.     Tentatively it looks like it is USAF/XOS-HA.

Oh, good Lord, who cares?

The double-breasted "corporate" uniform would likely have been knocked down sooner or later anyway -- the process by which it came into being was illegal by CAP regulation, and any fool could see it was going to cause issues with the Air Force if you knew our history with uniforms.

If you have sour grapes because you shelled out money for the CSU, that's on you. It was your decision to make the purchase, to invest in a bad idea. Don't blame CAP-USAF or a HAF directorate for trying to restore some sanity.

Finally, a voice of reason. Thank you, thank you very much!

[NIN]

Also, post-it notes, doodle pad scribbles, and Chinese food take-out receipts with notes written on the back.

And the colonel who makes the decision, requisition his v-necked t-shirts, as the sweat stains will undoubtedly reveal something.

(my guess is, that will be: "You need a better antiperspirant.")

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Oh, good Lord, who cares?

I do, for one.  So do a heck of a lot of people I personally know who shelled out for it.

The double-breasted "corporate" uniform would likely have been knocked down sooner or later anyway -- the process by which it came into being was illegal by CAP regulation, and any fool could see it was going to cause issues with the Air Force if you knew our history with uniforms.

Why?  Because it was BLUE and not the beloved GREY?  As I have said before, many times, the USAF does not own the copyright on all shades of blue!

And killing it just because the Generalissimo introduced it?  OK, the way he DID it was not the way to do it, but the fact is the fact is the fact: The Air Force was good with it, blue shoulder marks and hard rank included, after CAP asked their concerns and addressed them; i.e., metal grade on flight cap.

I have suggested alternate uniforms based on blue airline aircrew uniforms having nothing to do with the USAF and usually the response from at least one person is "can't have it, the AF would complain, stick with the greys, it's safe."  Others have suggested alternate uniforms based on police-style blue to the same effect.

I will agree that the blue shoulder marks should have at least had CAP cutouts on them, but there is absolutely NO good reason I see that the modifications directed by General Courter should not have been adopted as permanent - or not adopted at all.

If you have sour grapes because you shelled out money for the CSU, that's on you. It was your decision to make the purchase, to invest in a bad idea. Don't blame CAP-USAF or a HAF directorate for trying to restore some sanity.

It's not sour grapes, and you might be surprised how many disagree with you on it being a bad idea.  The VAST majority of members I have known would have rather had the grey/white and/or the polo uniform discontinued.

It's got nothing to do with "sanity."  As we have seen, some members, thank God a very small minority, can still act insane in the AF-style uniform; i.e., trolling for salutes.

I would call the CSU kibosh the most badly-managed uniform issue (and that's a doozy of a distinction) in my 18 years in the CAP.

[Major Carrales]

I sincerely hope to never read anyone calling for blue shoulder marks or hard rank on this board.  You all had it via the CSU (and many people wore it for that reason)...and rejected it.

I will cry foul on that point should it arise.  Many of those who took most issue were the same bunck harkening back to the "good ole days" of blue shoulder marks and hard rank.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I sincerely hope to never read anyone calling for blue shoulder marks or hard rank on this board.  You all had it via the CSU (and many people wore it for that reason)...and rejected it.

I will cry foul on that point should it arise.  Many of those who took most issue were the same bunck harkening back to the "good ole days" of blue shoulder marks and hard rank.

And you would be justified in calling foul.

When the CSU came out, I remember most people being very enthusiastic.  I only knew a handful who absolutely hated it.

Those with facial hair were a bit disgruntled, which I am sympathetic to, even though I have a very thin 'tache and shaved my beard when I joined/rejoined CAP.

Some overly cautious types said that the shoulder marks should have "CAP" on them - which makes sense, but some others automatically, reflexively called for those to be junked and grey instituted, which is exactly what has happened, and would make sense IF the uniform were being kept but makes no sense for a uniform being scrapped anyway.

I just don't understand the segments of our membership that are so zealous that we be grey, grey, grey (even though my hair is, what's left of it) and recoil from any shade of blue like encountering a ticked-off King Cobra.