Class A Blues

[lordmonar]

Yup.  But I have heard of some units not allowing cadets to wear a service coat unless they were staff or a C/NCO and above...

If true, that's completely idioitic and a change of command is needed.

Or perhaps an issue with supply. If there's not enough to go around, it is well within the CC's right to say that. Or he could say if there's not enough, then no one gets to wear it.

They can try to justify it however they want - it's idiotic.

About as idiotic as any one of our stupid uniform/CP/ES rules.  Why can only officers wear service caps?  Why can't we wear boonie caps in the filed?  Why do we wear color on camoflage?

[red_sox_fan]

Yup.  But I have heard of some units not allowing cadets to wear a service coat unless they were staff or a C/NCO and above...

If true, that's completely idioitic and a change of command is needed.

The commander was replaced due to her lack of knowledge of CAP. For people bad mouthing me let me tell you something are squad would later find out that she wasnt allowing us to because she dint think it looked good for people without alot of ribbions to be wearing class A blues. again she told us that airmen werent allowed to wear class A under regulations. Actually the bigger reason she was replaced was because people who dint have who "inspired" them to join. She filled it in with her name so she got the recuriter ribbion by not showing core values. My point of that is she dint have much trust to begin with.

[arajca]

Yup.  But I have heard of some units not allowing cadets to wear a service coat unless they were staff or a C/NCO and above...

If true, that's completely idioitic and a change of command is needed.

Or perhaps an issue with supply. If there's not enough to go around, it is well within the CC's right to say that. Or he could say if there's not enough, then no one gets to wear it.

They can try to justify it however they want - it's idiotic.

About as idiotic as any one of our stupid uniform/CP/ES rules.  Why can only officers wear service caps?  Why can't we wear boonie caps in the filed?  Why do we wear color on camoflage?

1. No idea.
2. USAF said NO!!!
3. Good question - distinctive?

[Garibaldi]

Yup.  But I have heard of some units not allowing cadets to wear a service coat unless they were staff or a C/NCO and above...

If true, that's completely idioitic and a change of command is needed.

The commander was replaced due to her lack of knowledge of CAP. For people bad mouthing me let me tell you something are squad would later find out that she wasnt allowing us to because she dint think it looked good for people without alot of ribbions to be wearing class A blues. again she told us that airmen werent allowed to wear class A under regulations. Actually the bigger reason she was replaced was because people who dint have who "inspired" them to join. She filled it in with her name so she got the recuriter ribbion by not showing core values. My point of that is she dint have much trust to begin with.

Your CC was replaced because she was incompetent? Is that what I'm seeing? Also, the idea that a cadet can't wear a class-A uniform because it "didn't look good for people without a lot of ribbons" is a load of horse squeeze.

Pretty much anyone graduating from basic training either has no ribbons, or one, or two, depending on how they do during training. They also get marksman badges in the Army if they qualify. Does it look bad? No. You get a ribbon for achievements and awards. I'm not arguing the point, just the stupidity behind her dicta.

The thing about the commander filling out their name under who recruited them is an old story. Glad she was removed. If she is still in perhaps she can learn something about CAP in the meantime that she should have learned during Level 1.

[A.Member]

Yup.  But I have heard of some units not allowing cadets to wear a service coat unless they were staff or a C/NCO and above...

If true, that's completely idioitic and a change of command is needed.

Really?  I can think of any number of reasons why to do it that way.

a) Status symbol for NCO's and above.....just like the service hat is restricted to Officers.
b) Limited supply train of the service coats....so they limit them to those who have acheived/show commitment to the CAP program.
c) Uniformity (sort of).....you don't want C/AB Newguy thinking he has to go buy a $100 service coat....and being the only Airman in a service coat.

Not idiotic at all.

a)  They have rank for that and there is no justification to further restrict wear.  39-1 doesn't restrict the wear of the service coat in any manner similar to that of the service cap (ie. by rank).
b)  Perhaps....but squadrons can, and should, always attempt to recover uniforms from cadets that do not make it year.  If availability is that much of a problem, I suspect that even some NCOs do not have service coats, which, of course, makes your 'uniform' argument moot.
c)  If they have a service coat and are attending a more formal event, say a Wing Conference dinner or a squadron awards banquet, they should be in a coat whenever possible.   Further, unless the squadron in question has perfect inspection scores (highly unlikely), I'd say their efforts should be focused on more important details other than who should or shouldn't be wearing a service coat.  If the argument really is uniformity, then I'd argue no cadet should wear the service coat.

No one is suggesting they need to go out and buy anything.   However, prohibiting a cadet from wearing an authorized uniform, especially something as basic as a service coat, is indeed idiotic.

[lordmonar]

Okay....

I disagree.

So....when my 18 year old cadets all decide that they want to wear flight suits to the meeting.....that's okay or they decide to wear BDUs on Blues night......those are all authorised uniforms.....it's okay to for them to do what ever they want to?

The unit command has the right and duty to set his squadron's uniform policy.  Simple end of story.
If a cadet is going to an outside event not controlled by the unit commander....the leader of that event sets the policy....for example at encampment they may all have to wear an encampment hat that is not allowed by the unit commander.

It may not be what you do.  I not make any sense to you.....but the basic authority is there for the commander to set policy...within the confines of the regulations.

It certainly is not cause for removing a commander.

[Garibaldi]

Okay....

I disagree.

So....when my 18 year old cadets all decide that they want to wear flight suits to the meeting.....that's okay or they decide to wear BDUs on Blues night......those are all authorised uniforms.....it's okay to for them to do what ever they want to?

The unit command has the right and duty to set his squadron's uniform policy.  Simple end of story.
If a cadet is going to an outside event not controlled by the unit commander....the leader of that event sets the policy....for example at encampment they may all have to wear an encampment hat that is not allowed by the unit commander.

It may not be what you do.  I not make any sense to you.....but the basic authority is there for the commander to set policy...within the confines of the regulations.

It certainly is not cause for removing a commander.

Don't think that was the reason for removal. I think it was incompetence or a vote of no confidence. I had to wade through a veritable sea of grammatical errors to get his point.

[krnlpanick]

Yup.  But I have heard of some units not allowing cadets to wear a service coat unless they were staff or a C/NCO and above...

If true, that's completely idioitic and a change of command is needed.

The commander was replaced due to her lack of knowledge of CAP. For people bad mouthing me let me tell you something are squad would later find out that she wasnt allowing us to because she dint think it looked good for people without alot of ribbions to be wearing class A blues. again she told us that airmen werent allowed to wear class A under regulations. Actually the bigger reason she was replaced was because people who dint have who "inspired" them to join. She filled it in with her name so she got the recuriter ribbion by not showing core values. My point of that is she dint have much trust to begin with.

Please at least try to spell check your posts before hitting the Post button. This post is nearly unreadable.

As for the topic of your post, the regulations are available to everyone. If someone tells you that regulations state so-and-so, your automatic reaction should be to research and verify yourself. If that person is incorrect, politely inform them that they are and continue on with life.

The unit command has the right and duty to set his squadron's uniform policy.  Simple end of story.
If a cadet is going to an outside event not controlled by the unit commander....the leader of that event sets the policy....for example at encampment they may all have to wear an encampment hat that is not allowed by the unit commander.

100% on the money...


Just my $0.02

[A.Member]

The unit command has the right and duty to set his squadron's uniform policy.  Simple end of story.
If a cadet is going to an outside event not controlled by the unit commander....the leader of that event sets the policy....for example at encampment they may all have to wear an encampment hat that is not allowed by the unit commander.

Concur.   

That said, I view setting uniform of the day differently than excluding the wear of an authorized uniform; thats what's being discussed.  Furthermore, I'm more interested in removing roadblocks than I am in adding new ones.   As someone else pointed out earlier, we have more than enough b.s. regulation as it is.

I'm sure we'll have to agree to disagree on this issue.

[ol'fido]

BITD, uniform policy was set by pure chance and economics. We mostly wore blues to meetings and fatigues to missions and bivouacs. My first blues uniform was purchased at Wal-mart. It was black dress shoes, some navy blue pants, and a light blue dress shirt that had no pockets. Nobody said anything nasty to me or chewed me out because I wasn't wearing an actual uniform. Uniform Program? No such animal at that time.

Service coats were worn by those lucky enough to have them. Every once in a great while someone would find one at a surplus store or we would get a few from the squadron at Scott AFB. Mostly whoever fit into what we got would wear them when appropriate. It wasn't that we were trying to "not" wear a correct uniform, it's just that we didn't have them to wear.

[Private Investigator]

Okay....

I disagree.

So....when my 18 year old cadets all decide that they want to wear flight suits to the meeting.....that's okay or they decide to wear BDUs on Blues night......those are all authorised uniforms.....it's okay to for them to do what ever they want to?

The unit command has the right and duty to set his squadron's uniform policy.  Simple end of story.
If a cadet is going to an outside event not controlled by the unit commander....the leader of that event sets the policy....for example at encampment they may all have to wear an encampment hat that is not allowed by the unit commander.

It may not be what you do.  I not make any sense to you.....but the basic authority is there for the commander to set policy...within the confines of the regulations.

It certainly is not cause for removing a commander.

I concur.

I am thinking you have 30 Cadets and only two have a service coat it will look silly in pictures. But I guess not so much as Cadets wearing a flannel jacket with BDUs. Now I have seen really petite 13 year olds wearing their brother's service coat and they really need to cut the bottom third off.

[Private Investigator]

Yup.  But I have heard of some units not allowing cadets to wear a service coat unless they were staff or a C/NCO and above...

If true, that's completely idioitic and a change of command is needed.

The commander was replaced due to her lack of knowledge of CAP.

All that tells me is that your whole Squadron likely has no clue of CAP. Not to be offensive, but ..

1) Because that was the best choice you had for Commander?

2) Remote Squadrons like Petticoat Junction Composite Squadron which is 100 miles from the next nearest Squadron may have no clue of what is going on and is running the program blindly. For example at Encampment you have a C/CMSgt that is extremely weak in knowledge but shucks, they are from Petticoat Junction and they only get a Cadet to Encampment once every three or four years. 

[Sapper168]

***  Why do we wear color on camoflage?  ***

If you look at the Air Force uniform from the Viet Nam Era you will see they wore the blue tapes with white lettering before transitioning to subdued look.  CAP just never switched over whether that was to maintain a 'distictive look' or for other reasons.

[Private Investigator]

If you look at the Air Force uniform from the Viet Nam Era you will see they wore the blue tapes with white lettering

BTW I always liked that.

[LGM30GMCC]

It wasn't just the USAF. The Army had gold on black and full color patches/stripes on their ODs. The military has been gradually moving more and more to the 'Maybe we don't want to be quite as visible' mentality since they ditched the blue uniforms in the Army.

Basically, once you no longer needed to see through the smoke of black powder to coordinate military actions, the desire to be harder to see has been increasing in strength. This includes making it harder to see who is an officer, NCO, or whatever.

[abdsp51]

It wasn't just the USAF. The Army had gold on black and full color patches/stripes on their ODs. The military has been gradually moving more and more to the 'Maybe we don't want to be quite as visible' mentality since they ditched the blue uniforms in the Army.

Basically, once you no longer needed to see through the smoke of black powder to coordinate military actions, the desire to be harder to see has been increasing in strength. This includes making it harder to see who is an officer, NCO, or whatever.

Yup now if key indicators were removed it would make things all the better.

[PHall]

It wasn't just the USAF. The Army had gold on black and full color patches/stripes on their ODs. The military has been gradually moving more and more to the 'Maybe we don't want to be quite as visible' mentality since they ditched the blue uniforms in the Army.

Basically, once you no longer needed to see through the smoke of black powder to coordinate military actions, the desire to be harder to see has been increasing in strength. This includes making it harder to see who is an officer, NCO, or whatever.

Yup now if key indicators were removed it would make things all the better.

We already had that in the Air Force when we had the Aircrew Style Name Patch. Which met it's demise because some Officers weren't saluted.

[LGM30GMCC]

Here I thought it met its demise because it just looked ugly and strange. (My opinion perhaps...but still. I see that in pictures and just go...weird)

[lordmonar]

It wasn't just the USAF. The Army had gold on black and full color patches/stripes on their ODs. The military has been gradually moving more and more to the 'Maybe we don't want to be quite as visible' mentality since they ditched the blue uniforms in the Army.

Basically, once you no longer needed to see through the smoke of black powder to coordinate military actions, the desire to be harder to see has been increasing in strength. This includes making it harder to see who is an officer, NCO, or whatever.

Yup now if key indicators were removed it would make things all the better.

We already had that in the Air Force when we had the Aircrew Style Name Patch. Which met it's demise because some Officers weren't saluted.

I was told it was the Chief Mafia that shot that down....or at least they were the ones who got our stripes put back on (ACSNP & Stripes).

[PHall]

Here I thought it met its demise because it just looked ugly and strange. (My opinion perhaps...but still. I see that in pictures and just go...weird)

Actually, it looked alright, because everybody was wearing it. And the end to sewing all that crap on was welcomed by the masses.
But the zealots in AETC didn't like it because you couldn't tell somebody's grade until you were within "reading range". And people weren't being saluted...
But the folks in the field, especially those in sandy areas, liked them.