Class A Blues

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

My Army vet dad called my blues the "bus driver" uniform.

The RAF and Commonwealth air forces call their service dress with full-size medals "blues, greys and gongs."

The Luftwaffe called its version of the Ike jacket the Fliegerbluse (flying blouse), even though a lot of airmen who wore it were not aircrew.

The Canadians call their respective army (dark green), naval (dark blue/black/white) and air uniforms "distinctive environmental uniforms."

The USAAF (and CAP) called its classic WWII uniforms "pinks and greens."

It's really not worth getting pedantic about...it's like calling a Navy enlisted uniform "crackerjacks" with a "Dixie cup" hat, or the anatomically descriptive name for the flight/overseas cap.

[SarDragon]

I would venture to guess that most of these terms are pretty much community wide.That is not the case, and the biggest part of the problem.

Some members pass 'Classes' down, from generation to generation, and others refuse to use them at all. There is a lot of unneeded confusion. What's the solution?

[AlphaSigOU]

The USAAF (and CAP) called its classic WWII uniforms "pinks and greens."

Only for officers. Enlisted wore olive drab wool for both jacket and trousers.

[Ned]

Human nature tends to seek and use simple understandable terms for simple understandable concepts.

Hence things like TPU (later CSU) , grey ghost, and Class A vs. Class B.

They work effectively to communicate clearly among people out there in the field doing their job on Tuesday nights.

Bureaucrats, however, prefer to use long and difficult to understand terms in lieu of simple words.  It's a control thing.

"Class A" versus "Class B" simply works better to communicate the concept then having to state "Men's/Women's Service Dress Uniform" versus " Men's/Women's Long-sleeve Light Blue Blouse/shirt" or "Men's/Women's Short-sleeve Light Blue Blouse/Shirt".

It even works better than saying "blues" which is still ambiguous about sleeve length and service coats.

In terms of glass houses, given the integrity of our membership, I'm sure no one will ever criticise the use of Class A or B if they have ever said "BDU" instead of the official nomenclature "Battle Dress Uniform," "CSU" instead of Aviator Shirt with Epaulets", or ever addressed an NCO as "Sarge" or a lieutenant as "L-T".

But this is CAPTalk, and we love to show how much more integrity we have than the other anonymous posters.


Or something. 


Ned Lee

[Major Lord]

BDU's? Ooooooh You mean; "Fatigues"!  My only gripe about the mixed terminology ( Pardon me while I don my blouse, field scarf and low quarters) is that we pass our own widely divergent set of confusing nomenclature to new Cadets ( and new Seniors as well)  but I am not sure how much of a real life problem that presents. Also, maybe creating an environment of ambiguity, uncertainty, and deeply held but incorrect beliefs is the best way to help them transition to the bleak and stark realities of adulthood. Its not a "bug" Its a "feature"!

Major Lord

[lordmonar]

There are times when exact and specific terminology is very important.....and there are times when short hand/slang/common terms are appropriate.

Class A's.......if Cadet X is at the Homer J. Simpson Composite squadron and they call it Class A/Class B then it works...communication happens.  Telling them "there is no such thing as Class A's" is automatically a null message as they experience Class A's every day.

"Reeducating" them on the "proper" terms in this context actually creates barriers to communication.

[Eclipse]

In terms of glass houses, given the integrity of our membership, I'm sure no one will ever criticise the use of Class A or B if they have ever said "BDU" instead of the official nomenclature "Battle Dress Uniform," "CSU" instead of Aviator Shirt with Epaulets"

Not a good analogy as "BDU" is an unambiguous abbreviation of the proper term for our service.  "BBDU", however, isn't, as the Blue Field Uniform is not a
"battle dress", though "BBDU" make sense in our context.

The "CSU", is not, however, the "Aviator Shirt with epaulets", in fact that is a different uniform altogether.

[Major Carrales]

Many of you are assuming that all our cadets are bound for the USAF where this terminology is used.  I could make the case that cadets going into the US ARMY or US MARINES would be harmed having a lexicon of CAP terms in their head.  Even our best cadets will have to adjust. Imagine a SPAATZ cadet now in training referring to his Company Commander as a Squadron Commander.  What might happen to that person?

We don't use the uniform class system in our unit, my correspondence to cadets in the official form is the use of standard terminology ("minimum basic service dress" and "light-weight blue jacket" instead of "blues" and "zipper jacket," however, in the parlance of squadron communication among cadets the latter are used because they say the most in the smallest amount of words.

Example:
Proper CAPSPEAK: "All participating cadets will arrive at 1200L hrs at Memorial Middle School, Poratbale ROOM 203, UNIFORM of the DAY will be minimum basic service dress."

FIELDSPEAK: "Meet at noon at CAP Station Kingsville in short sleeve blues."

CAPALTERNATESPEAK: "Show up at the hut at noon, CLASS B uniform"

[MIKE]

Proper CAPSPEAK: "All participating cadets will arrive at 1200L hrs at Memorial Middle School, Poratbale ROOM 203, UNIFORM of the DAY will be minimum basic service dress uniform."

Fixed that for you.  Service Dress is the coat and tie combo.

[Major Carrales]

Proper CAPSPEAK: "All participating cadets will arrive at 1200L hrs at Memorial Middle School, Poratbale ROOM 203, UNIFORM of the DAY will be minimum basic service dress uniform."

Fixed that for you.  Service Dress is the coat and tie combo.

1-5. Uniform Combinations. (Page 8-CAPM 39-1 23 MARCH 2005)

a. Minimum Basic Service Uniform. Male: Short-sleeve, light blue shirt; dark blue trousers; blue belt/silver buckle, blue flight cap; black shoes, and socks. Insignia: CAP nameplate, shoulder patch, collar/lapel insignia, embroidered epaulet sleeve, and flight cap emblem.  Female: Short-sleeve light blue blouse; Dark blue skirt or slacks; flight cap; neutral nylon hose; black shoes; black handbag. Insignia: CAP nameplate, shoulder patch, collar/lapel insignia, embroidered epaulet sleeve, and flight cap emblem.

To add to the correction, however, points out what Ned alluded to.  Long unyieldly names for things cause issues.   This is why I feel people use terminology like "CLASS A" and "CLASS B," to avoid paragraph sized names.

[SarDragon]

OK, let's add those names to the uni reg, so everyone knows them, and we'll all be happy. Then it will be universal. Isn't that the goal here?

[Eclipse]

OK, let's add those names to the uni reg, so everyone knows them, and we'll all be happy. Then it will be universal. Isn't that the goal here?

I agree - another of those baseline issues of contention that could be solved with two paragraphs.

I don't understand why simple principles of management and business escape these situations.

The second time someone asks a question should be the time whomever has the authority sits down and writes the definitive answer.
That way he third time someone asks, the answer is readily available.

[lordmonar]

OK, let's add those names to the uni reg, so everyone knows them, and we'll all be happy. Then it will be universal. Isn't that the goal here?

I don't know if that is really the goal....or is it just the need to be superior to others by using the "proper" term.

It is not like we are confused about what they are talking about.  It is not like there are 100 different definitions of Class A's.

It is simply a differernt term.    BBDU Vs Blue Field Uniform.  090 degrees vs East.  Left to right vs Horizonatally.

They mean the same thing.  Some are more appropriate is some situations.

[SarDragon]

But people are confused. New members frequently come on here, and CS, and ask, "What are Class A's?" It isn't universal, because there is a conscious effort in some units to not use outdated terminology.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Only for officers. Enlisted wore olive drab wool for both jacket and trousers.

Noted...however, my dad was in the Army when they switched over from those uniforms to the green Class A's (which he hated; he liked the Ike jacket) and he told me that the officers' service coat was actually more of a chocolate brown.  I have his old Ike jacket (complete with green then-new Specialist 4 insignia, which sticks out like a sore thumb) and it is indeed olive drab.

He said the khaki (pronounced "car-key" in other English-speaking countries) uniform was almost universally referred to as "suntans."  I have his tan overseas cap with blue Infantry piping (though he was in the 4th Armored Division; go figure).

I don't know what the "proper" term for the Ike jacket was but I never heard him refer to it as anything but that.

The RAF/Commonwealth term for their "Ike" was "Suits, Aircrew," even though almost everyone ended up wearing it (some in khaki rather than blue), but I have never heard it referred to as anything but "battledress" or "BD."



And then we have all sorts of nicknames for our rank insignia: butterbars, railroad tracks, butterballs, chickens...

Point?  It's good to know the proper terminology but I believe it's more important to know what is being talked about.

[HGjunkie]

And then we have all sorts of nicknames for our rank insignia: butterbars, railroad tracks, butterballs, chickens...

The pointy chevron that is a safety hazard to C/SNCOs.... 

Sorry, had to get that in here.

[red_sox_fan]

If i am correct i belive a Class A blue is worn by NCO, officers, and seinor members. They are a darkish blue with a service jacket. for information check out the cap reg book.

[jeders]

If i am correct i belive a Class A blue is worn by NCO, officers, and seinor members. They are a darkish blue with a service jacket. for information check out the cap reg book.

. . you denecroed
. . a 14 month old
. . thread
. . for that?

All comments copyrighted eClipseco Mining and Heavy Machinery Consortium

[arajca]

If i am correct i belive a Class A blue is worn by NCO, officers, and seinor members. They are a darkish blue with a service jacket. for information check out the cap reg book.

The Service Dress can be worn by any CAP member - including Cadet Airmen.

Well, someone had to say it

[MSgt Van]

When i was an amn we had combo 1, 2, 3 and 4!