I think Region primary staff officers should be full Colonels

[flyguy06]

I was looking at the SER org chart. They are organized using the A-staff.  I believe many Region Headquarters are organized this way.

I think if they are going to have a A-staff, the people feeeling the key positions should have the rank accordingly. Region level is a lot higher level than Wing and therefore has a lot more responsibility. I think A-staff primary officers should have the raank of full Colonel and region Commanders should be BG's. I mean they have much more responsibilities than a Lt Col would have.

[mikeylikey]

But rank means NOTHING in CAP. 

[Ned]

This is a terrific idea!

And primary staff members at NHQ should be colonels (or better) as well.

The Army has special badges for service at certain levels (general staff, pentagon, white house, etc.)

We should seriously think about that as well.

Ned Lee
Primary Staff Officer, Pacific Region

[IceNine]

I have thought this for a long time, but with a slightly altered view...

I always thought that the CAP/CC should be a 3 Star
Vice 2 Star
Region CC's 2 Star
Wing CC 1 Star
Region Staff and higher Col.

BUT, All should have to complete Level 5 within 1 Year

[mikeylikey]

^ Why?  We need some reasoning with the proposal. 

I could maybe see Region Commanders being a Brigadier General, but Wing Commanders?  No way. 

So if your idea was adopted we would have more Generals than the Mexican Army.

[JayT]

I have thought this for a long time, but with a slightly altered view...

I always thought that the CAP/CC should be a 3 Star
Vice 2 Star
Region CC's 2 Star
Wing CC 1 Star
Region Staff and higher Col.

BUT, All should have to complete Level 5 within 1 Year

What will that change?

[Hawk200]

I have thought this for a long time, but with a slightly altered view... BUT, All should have to complete Level 5 within 1 Year

What will that change?

As long as it isn't waiverable, it would cut down on getting the Wing CC position just to put on Colonel, then dropping out. It would also make selection a little easier. The member would already have to have Level 4, or be very close to it. It would ensure that only the best and brightest would be selected. Theoretically, anyway.

Personnally, I think it ought to be Wing CC's as colonels, Brigadiers as Region CC, and National as a two star. National level could have a few Brigadiers (such as an Inspector General), and colonels as staff.It would line up a little more with what the AF does.

[CAPOfficer]

This topic has been raging in CAP for over two decades.  The first time an attempt was made, it was to the general officer grade structure.  It ended with all of CAP being punished by the Air Force with the maroon epaulets and the removal of all metal grade insignia.  Since then, the Air Force has written into there regulations that they control "all" of the CAP Senior Officer grade, but especially the General Officer grades.

The next time an effort was made, we were graced with the approval for a two-star billet; however, even then additional rules were placed on our one & two stars.  Additionally, there was no grandfather clause for our previous National Commander's as was the case when the first one star was approved for our National Commander.

As for having more colonel's at region and national due to their filling a position, I would disagree with that proposal.  The issue isn't that we need more colonels or generals, it's that on the average any member can advance to Lt Col within ten years.  Although a longer time-in-grade requirement wouldn't be welcome by the membership, it would alleviate some of the issues, but not all of them.

[Hawk200]

This topic has been raging in CAP for over two decades.  The first time an attempt was made, it was to the general officer grade structure.  It ended with all of CAP being punished by the Air Force with the maroon epaulets and the removal of all metal grade insignia. 

I knew of the one star that "self promoted", but I have never heard anything about region commanders being promoted to generals. Care to share the specifics?

[flyguy06]

I dont know about the Natl CC being three stars. three stars is like senior exec level in the military. two is probably enough. The Natl Vice CC and the Region Commanders can all be one stars.  The Vice CC really doesnt command anything except on rare occasions and then its about position and not rank.

I definantly think Region CC's should be one stars. Look at the responsibilty they have. The DCS's or A-staff members have a heck of alot of responsiblity. They need to be more than Lt Col's.

[FW]

As nice as it would be to have region/CS's and DCS's as Cols.; it just won't happen.

It's not going to happen because to do so would make necessary the promotion of corporate officers to Brig Gen.  Which, if logically continued ( )  would mean the promotion of the CAP/CV to Maj Gen. and the CAP/CC to Lt Gen.  This will happen when a snow ball can keep its form in ...  "Why?" you ask.  We'll, as it has been constantly drilled into my skull for the last 15 years, the AF doesn't want hundreds of CAP Generals walking around.   Remember, we CAP members stick around for a long time.  In the AF, a general is usually gone after a few years.   "They"  take the grade of "Gen" very seriously and  strongly feel it is the ultimate privilege for a CAP member to attain the grade reserved only for the commander and vice commander of CAP.

My opinion is to just leave things as is.  Of course if you want to add a pay check to the promotion...

[John Bryan]

If region commanders were made Brig Gen then we would add 8 new generals to an organization with around 60,000 members....not a very large increase....even with former region commanders sticking around we are talking less then 100 total.   I have made the point before that PHS has around 60 flag slots for an organization of 6,000. Having said this...well I would welcome region commanders becoming generals , I do not think it will impact the membership or the mission.

As for the National Commander becoming a Lt Gen....all I can say is the US Coast Guard Auxiliary National Commodore wears 3 stars. http://www.auxnaco.org/

Again.....I would support the promotions for the Region and National Commanders BUT I think  CAP has bigger fish to fry.

[Eclipse]

Make the Region & Wing stars temporary, only while holding the office - that way there is a fixed number.  The permanent grade of Col. would be bestowed upon completion of their duties.

As to HEADCAP being a 3-star, how much more "executive" can you get than National commander? I don't see an issue with that.  I would also suggest that the 3 stars stay at the office, reverting to 1 after completion of duties.  That way there is only 1 triple star at anytime.

[flyguy06]

As nice as it would be to have region/CS's and DCS's as Cols.; it just won't happen.

It's not going to happen because to do so would make necessary the promotion of corporate officers to Brig Gen.  Which, if logically continued ( )  would mean the promotion of the CAP/CV to Maj Gen. and the CAP/CC to Lt Gen.  This will happen when a snow ball can keep its form in ...  "Why?" you ask.  We'll, as it has been constantly drilled into my skull for the last 15 years, the AF doesn't want hundreds of CAP Generals walking around.   Remember, we CAP members stick around for a long time.  In the AF, a general is usually gone after a few years.   "They"  take the grade of "Gen" very seriously and  strongly feel it is the ultimate privilege for a CAP member to attain the grade reserved only for the commander and vice commander of CAP.

My opinion is to just leave things as is.  Of course if you want to add a pay check to the promotion...

The natl VC doesnt have to outrank the region Commanders. It wasnt like that when I was a  younger enior member or cadet. The Natl VC was a COL just like the region Commanders. SO why not just make the "8" regionCommanders BG's and keep the VC as a BG and keep the Natl CC as a MG?

[flyguy06]

Make the Region & Wing stars temporary, only while holding the office - that way there is a fixed number.  The permanent grade of Col. would be bestowed upon completion of their duties.

As to HEADCAP being a 3-star, how much more "executive" can you get than National commander? I don't see an issue with that.  I would also suggest that the 3 stars stay at the office, reverting to 1 after completion of duties.  That way there is only 1 triple star at anytime.

I mean Executive in terms of the USAF, not CAP. Three Stars in the USAF are treated very differently than two and one star Generals. One and two star Generals are still considered field Commanders. When you get to three stars, however, youare in a totally different category.

[FW]

It's the Air Force that needs the convincing.

If we only want region/cc and above to "hold" a star, wing/ccs' stay at Col.  As a Corp. Officer, wing/ccs' would not take kindly to region staffers holding that grade too.  Corp. Officers have a "fiduciary responsibility"  other CAP members don't, which, IMHO, warrants a higher grade.  (this is the reason for this discussion, isn't it?)

When the CAP/CV was first awarded a star, it was supposed to be temporary.  If the CV was not elected to CC, the individual was supposed to revert back to Col.  That lasted less than 2 years.  

And, yes, the USCGAux's commander hold the "flag" of 3 stars, but when term is over, grade stays with the rank;  individual goes without.  Tradition hasn't changed this since day one.  Our "traditions", much like our uniforms, tend to change with the winds.

[flyguy06]

using the army as an example (cause thats what I know  ) The Divison (a two star billet)is the largest maneuver unit. He gets dirty with the troops. A Corps is the next higher echelon. Its a three star billett. He doesnt get dirty. he is wayyyy back in the safe area making policy. he may fly over in his helicoter to observe from a safe distance. But three stars dont generally go into harms way. two stars do.

[ColonelJack]

And, yes, the USCGAux's commander hold the "flag" of 3 stars, but when term is over, grade stays with the rank;  individual goes without.  Tradition hasn't changed this since day one.  Our "traditions", much like our uniforms, tend to change with the winds.

Not exactly.  As long as an Auxie wears his "Past Officer" pin, he is entitled to wear the highest grade insignia earned.  A past National Commodore thus wears his three stars forever.

A while back I made a similar proposal here:  National Commander wears lieutenant general, National Vice Commander and National Chief of Staff are major generals, Region Commanders are brigadier generals, Wing Commanders are colonels, etc.  The general grades are temporary; National CC, CV, and CS revert to brigadier general as permanent rank upon completion of their terms, while Region CCs revert to colonel (unless granted the star permanently by the NB/BOG for exemplary performance, concurred by AF).   Like John Bryan said, I based it on the CGAux's structure, even though they don't use the rank titles.  Their National Commodore is not called "Admiral," though he wears a vice admiral's insignia.

It made sense then; it makes sense now.  YMMV.

Jack

[Pylon]

I get why we only have one Maj Gen.  But why do we only have one Brig Gen and everybody else and their brother are Col's and Lt Col's?  One Maj Gen and one Brig Gen for something like 60+ Colonel's?  Seems like a big skip to me.

Region Commander's being Brig Gen's would make sense given the size of their command.  It would make sense if you look at the promotable grade for commanders at each echelon from squadron up (Capt reporting to -> Maj -> Col -> Brig Gen -> Maj Gen).

Region Chief of Staff's were recommended to have the grade of Colonel a year or two ago at the NB or NEC (I forget which), and CAP-USAF warned against "grade inflation" and the proposal was turned down.  If the Region CoS's can't get birds for all of the responsibility on their shoulders, I don't see how other staffers could get them at this time. 

If a proposal for staff officers receiving Colonel were ever put in place, I would seriously recommend minimum Level IV completion, already a Lt Col, and 1 year (or greater) staff service to be eligible.  Level V couldn't hurt, though.  Otherwise, the region staff positions could be used as a "fast-track" loophole to Colonel... just appoint your favorite new 2d Lt to a vacant region staff slot and BAM!; s/he's a Colonel.  Even with requirements, it makes me nervous and makes me think of grade inflation.

[Major Carrales]

What should the grade and rank represent?

The Company and Early Field Grades
2d Lt to Lt Col= Progress through CAP Professional Development, Aviation/Professional Achievement (plus the prior) and current/prior SQUADRON/GROUP COMMAND.

Thus, Lt Col is the highest one goes without taking a major command (by that I mean WING or Higher)  I might leave Region Staff at Lt Col because they have not yet assumed the level of command.  If they are a prior Wing King, then they are colonels for establishing a command in CAP.

I could, however, see the justification for Full Colonels at Region Staff based on my idea that the staff of one echelon should be equal to the highest at the next lower.  Thus, Squadron Commanders should ideally be 1st Lts or Captains as should Group Staff be Captains with a Major or Lt Col as the Group Commander.  Wing staff should be Lt Cols, or Majors, with their Wing Commander as a Full Colonel.

The crux comes at this next level.  Regions Commanders might fittingly by Brig Generals with Cols and Lt Cols on their staff.  The Vice Commander, would remain a Brig General, albiet sort of like the first amoung equals and the National Commander a Maj General.


Upper Field Grades & General Officers
Col to Maj General are prior and current CAP COMMANDERS/Corporate Officers.  They are in charge of Wings, Regions and the Greater CAP.

Col= Wing Commander
Brig General= Region Commander & National Vice Commander
Maj General = CAP Primer

This would justify the Major General status for the National Commander and not make Brig General the "novelty/obscure" CAP rank held by a choice few people as Vice Commander.