Salutations...

[Nomex Maximus]

I am going to an ANG base this weekend for some training and I will be wearing the BBDU... am I going to have to be saluting people when I get there? How formal is this practice? Who? CAP? USAF officers? I haven't thrown a salute in over thirty years...

[capchiro]

It seems like not long ago you were wondering when you were going to get to wear your promotion.  I would think that if you are ready to be promoted to officer that you would know how to act like one.  I am not sure, but I thought that I recalled that you have prior service in the military?  If not, I apologize.  Anyhow, there is a CAPP, I think number 52, on customs and courtesies.  It is very short and you should be able to read it and understand it in a few minutes.  I would suggest that you know what you are doing before you go on base and embarrass the rest of us..

[Stonewall]

When in doubt, whip it out.

Here's what I would do, but put  me in BDUs because I don't own BBDUs...

If I saw an Air Force officer that out-ranked me, I'd salute and say "good afternoon sir (or ma'am)".

If I saw a CAP officer that out-ranked me, I'd salute and say "good afternoon sir (or ma'am)".

9 times out of 10, if someone is saluted they'll salute back.  So if you're in BBDUs and you salute an AF officer, they'll probably return the salute, stop, scratch their head, and say to themselves "since when do cops salute us, or maybe that was the Coast Guard...hmmmm....anyway, back to the computer...".

No biggie.  Just relax and have a good time.  

Oh, and if you don't salute them, they won't stamp "no dessert" on your meal card  

[LtCol White]

Agreed. Well said Harry

[Ford73Diesel]

CAPP 151 is the C&C book. It's outdated, but it gets the message across. Theres also a section in AFMAN 36-2203 about saluting.

Salute all officers higher than you. (CAP and military)

If it were me, I would salute any military officer regardless of thier grade, but thats just me and its not required according to the 2 publications mentioned earlier in this post.

[Stonewall]

If he doesn't know what to do or how to act on a military base or around officers, I'd lay blame on his chain of command first.

If you came to my squadron as a new senior member without prior military experience, I'd make sure  you knew how to conduct yourself accordingly before throwing on a set of bars.  It's kind of like rehearsing a promotion or retirement ceremony.  Sure, people have seen a million of them, but they've all been done differently and it doesn't hurt to ask questions and practice.

[jimmydeanno]

Please read CAPP 151 - Customs and Courtesies (as horribly written as it is.)

http://level2.cap.gov/documents/u_082503084356.pdf

Basically though, you will salute all commissioned officers of higher grade than you.  So if you are a SMWOG, you will salute all comissioned officers.  There is no prescribed distance to initiate a salute, so use common sense.  Technically it is "upon recognition," but I think that 200 feet is a little excessive.

Also, a greeting of the day is appropriate, such as "good morning, Sir!"

Don't forget about MOH recipients.

You may get saluted by some enlisted personnel, so just return it and carry on.

[Nomex Maximus]

It seems like not long ago you were wondering when you were going to get to wear your promotion.  I would think that if you are ready to be promoted to officer that you would know how to act like one.  I am not sure, but I thought that I recalled that you have prior service in the military?  If not, I apologize.  Anyhow, there is a CAPP, I think number 52, on customs and courtesies.  It is very short and you should be able to read it and understand it in a few minutes.  I would suggest that you know what you are doing before you go on base and embarrass the rest of us..

Sheesh! Slice me a new one! Yes I read the documents. I was led to believe that saluting may or may not be required.  This is why I asked. I seem to remember from military days very long ago that the only DUMB question was the one that didn't get asked. I have been on one wing training exercise so far and no one saluted anyone. And I have been going to the meetings regularily for four months now and no salutes yet either. Hawaiian shirts yes, salutes no.

As to promotions, if you recall the discussion there is ambiguity as to whether a six month wait is required for someone who is already a pilot. I have never claimed to have military skills - just piloting skills. My unit commander seems to think that everyone gets promoted after six months - automatically as far as he is concerned.

Really guys, I just want to get things right and be a professional.

--NM

[stillamarine]

You guys stress over the funniest stuff.

Guy asked a question, Answer it and carry on. That's it, no need for all the little side stuff about him asking a question unrelated to this.

:sigh: And I wonder why most CAP Members I mention this forum to, roll their eyes and say they can't stand the bickering.

[davedove]

Technically, since you will be wearing the BBDU, or CAP Field Uniform, it is not a military style uniform and you don't HAVE to salute.  However, it is never wrong to salute, so go for it.

You'll probable just confuse them.

Of course, if you are wearing officer's rank, some of the enlisted will probably salute you.  We had that happen in Annapolis near the Naval Academy.  They kept saluting some of our officers, but you could tell they weren't too sure who we were.

[Nomex Maximus]

...and CAPP 151 is hardly clear on the subject.

In section 1, it makes a disticntion between what CAP members do toward the flag on the basis of whether they are in "military style uniform" or "any other CAP uniform". In section 2 however saluting is exchanged between CAP members when in military style uniform. Does this include CAP style BBDUs? Section 2 b (1) says we salute when in military-style uniform. Again, BBDUs?

[LtCol Hooligan]

NM, keep your head up.  You are doing it right.  Many CAP Officers just wear the polo combo and don't worry about saluting.  I think it is great you are even thinking about it.  The CAP corporate uniform really does add a monkey wrench in the works as they are so much different than the military uniforms.  So, things would be pretty cut and dry if you were wearing the AF style uniform.  Just like the others said, salute those higher than you (AF, CAP, other branches of the service that you recognize as officers).  With the CAP distinctive style uniform, this should be done, but if you mess up, you don't owe 20 pushups or anything.

One thing I want to point out is an ANG base is traditionally a little less formal than active duty bases.  My unit meets on an ANG base and we have gotten comments like- "hey don't polish your boots any more- you are making us look bad", or "well you can tell they just got back from tech school they are still saluting!!".  This being said a greeting and if possible a salute will be more than the ANG officers expect.  Remember, most of these guys are civilian 28 days a month minus 2 weeks a year.  They are pretty laid back.  Oh and I could be totally wrong on this as every base and every base cc is different, this is just my experience on one particular base.

In regards to your last question, complete CPP, Senior Orientation and OPSEC and most of the time you are all set after 6 months (not always if there is a reason the cc wants to hold up the promotion).  If you have a mission related promotion, do all of the above and prove to the commander you are ready sooner, and they can promote you.  It is not a rule that you have to wait 6 months.

[davedove]

...and CAPP 151 is hardly clear on the subject.

In section 1, it makes a disticntion between what CAP members do toward the flag on the basis of whether they are in "military style uniform" or "any other CAP uniform". In section 2 however saluting is exchanged between CAP members when in military style uniform. Does this include CAP style BBDUs? Section 2 b (1) says we salute when in military-style uniform. Again, BBDUs?

I interpret "military style uniform" as the Air Force style uniforms.  To this we now have to add the new corporate uniform.  That being said, there is nothing that says you can't salute while wearing the other CAP uniforms.  So, if I'm in the Field Uniform or the Aviator Shirt Uniform, I tend to salute.  It does seem a bit strange in the Golf Shirt Uniform, but if someone salutes me, I will return the salute even then.

By the way, whether or not you salute is determined by the uniform you are wearing, not the other guy.  So, if you recognize an officer and you are wearing a military style uniform, you are supposed to salute, even if the officer is not wearing a military style uniform.  He wouldn't have to return the salute, because he's not in uniform, but he certainly can.  That question came up in my unit the other day, so we looked it up.

[jimmydeanno]

^Really...because I'd consider any uniform in which you could display grade insignia to be a military style uniform.

To say that the TPU is not "military style" is absurd.  "I want to wear ribbons and metal grade insignia, but C&C do not apply to me...hardly.

The only uniforms we have that I would not consider "military style" are the polo and golf shirts.

[floridacyclist]

In the RealMilitary@ we always saluted if we recognized them as an officer, even if they were in civvies. The respect is due to the person, not the grade insignia.

As for greetings, we actually had to practice this one in basic training, it was one of our 30 basic tasks and yes I know it was an Army thing, but I think it's still relevant and applicable and you would never be gigged for it.

You basically pop your salute and issue the standard greeting when you are close enough to say it without shouting, holding it until it is returned or they are passing you.

From midnight to 12 Noon: Good Morning Sir!
From 12 Noon to 6PM: Good Afternoon Ma'am!
After 6PM: Good Evening Sergeant! (obviously without the salute)

BTW, it doesn't hurt to smile and say it cheerfully, like you actually enjoy being there and wishing them a good day.

I remember one kid getting jacked up for saying "How's it going sir?". Not only was the Drill Sgt NOT a sir, but he took great offense to being addressed so informally. Like I said, this is probably more formality than you need, but it doesn't hurt to know how it works at the very basic levels.

[Stonewall]

In the Real Military™ we always saluted if we recognized them as an officer, even if they were in civvies. The respect is due to the person, not the grade insignia.

Abolutely!  It was the norm for me.  If you saw your BN Commander, Company Commander, or any other officer you knew was an officer, you rendered a salute.  Some units have specific saying that are said when saluting, like "All the way" and the officer would reply "Airborne".  When in doubt though, in the Army, if you simply saluted and said "Hooah, sir (or ma'am)", you were good to go.

As a CP guy in CAP, I would explain this to cadets as part of their T-Flight or other D&C, C&C, or leadership classes.  Soon, it became the norm to see my cadets saluting officers, even cadet officers, when they were in PT gear or, lets say, at the squadron doing a van clean-up.  I'd walk up and get a salute.  Now, do I tell them to stop it, or do I return the salute?  I saluted.

[Hawk200]

 There is no prescribed distance to initiate a salute, so use common sense.  Technically it is "upon recognition," but I think that 200 feet is a little excessive.

When I was active duty, the general rule of thumb was six paces. Always seemed to work fairly well.

[MIKE]

...and CAPP 151 is hardly clear on the subject.

In section 1, it makes a disticntion between what CAP members do toward the flag on the basis of whether they are in "military style uniform" or "any other CAP uniform". In section 2 however saluting is exchanged between CAP members when in military style uniform. Does this include CAP style BBDUs? Section 2 b (1) says we salute when in military-style uniform. Again, BBDUs?

Back when the pamphlet was written the Field Uniform (BBDU) didn't exist... And the CAP Distinctive Uniforms (Blazer and Aviator Shirt with blazer nametag) weren't the qusi-military style uniforms we have today in the Corporate Uniform (TPU), Field and Utility Uniforms.

I wish it stayed that way.... That the CAP Distinctive Uniforms were not "military style uniforms" and C&C wasn't rendered... because they were more or less civilian clothes... but that would discriminatory, and we can't have that.  

[JohnKachenmeister]

If you have passed your CAP form 5 check, and you are wearing wings, don't worry about other ranks.  Being a pilot trumps rank, all lesser, non-flying, officers have to salute you.  You have to salute all pilots of faster airplanes (which would be everyone except maybe C-130 drivers since they have to sweat bird strikes from the rear).  You should practice in a mirror to develop an arrogantly-superior smug as you return salutes from non-pilots.

[Nomex Maximus]

"After Johnny got through basic training, he
Was a soldier through and through when he was done.
Its effects were so well rooted,
That the next day he saluted
A Good Humor man, an usher, and a nun."
--Tom Lehrer, circa 1959