Has anyone ever heard of this bunch?

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I don't recognise that airplane, but it looks like it would be ideal for our scanners/observers.

http://www.ukcivilairpatrol.co.uk/

[THRAWN]

I don't recognise that airplane, but it looks like it would be ideal for our scanners/observers.

http://www.ukcivilairpatrol.co.uk/

There was some talk about them a few years ago. Seems like a decent group. The plane is a Aeroprakt A-22L Foxbat. In the interest of full disclosure, I had to look it up by registration number. Kind of reminds me of a C162.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

FOXBAT?!

[THRAWN]

FOXBAT?!

Jimniy Jillikers! If only!

[Luis R. Ramos]

The A22L Foxbat is classified by Wikipedia as an ultralight, and if I am not mistaken, CAP regs in the 60 series prohibit the use of ultralights in CAP. Am I not correct?

Please do not ask me to look them up, I just finished a day with a 3rd-grade class and cannot focus on minute details...

[Luis R. Ramos]

By the way, Wikipedia states it is known as the Foxbat in Australia and UK only, in the US its the Valor.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Ultralight?

I think of this when I think of "ultralight."

[THRAWN]

Looks like it's classed as a LSA in the US. Even so, it's a Yugo with a surfboard for a wing and a lawnmower engine.

[THRAWN]

The A22L Foxbat is classified by Wikipedia as an ultralight, and if I am not mistaken, CAP regs in the 60 series prohibit the use of ultralights in CAP. Am I not correct?

Please do not ask me to look them up, I just finished a day with a 3rd-grade class and cannot focus on minute details...

Yea, third grade was tough. I'm still all hosed up about my 8 times tables.... 

[Luis R. Ramos]

Actually I should have said teaching a 3rd-grade class!

[Brit_in_CAP]

Interesting.

They took over the role that would, at one time, have been undertaken by the RAF using their piston-engine training aircraft as part of MACC (Military Aid to the Civil Community).  Insufficient training aircraft these days!

[sardak]

In 2009, the then head of UK CAP, Mr. Tony Cowan MBE, received a Winston Churchill Memorial Trust Fellowship to come to the US to visit CAP units. His report is here: http://www.wcmt.org.uk/reports/667_1.pdf

Here's a brief article about UK CAP and US CAP: http://www.ukcivilairpatrol.co.uk/wsp_images/gabuyereurope.pdf

Mike

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

It does not seem like the UKCAP has any formal links with the RAF, unlike ours (however tenuous) with the USAF.

The Canadian CASARA seems like they are fairly well integrated with the RCAF.

http://www.casara.ca/

[lordmonar]

It does not seem like the UKCAP has any formal links with the RAF, unlike ours (however tenuous) with the USAF.

The Canadian CASARA seems like they are fairly well integrated with the RCAF.

http://www.casara.ca/

I know you just can't pass up a chance to jab at CAP.....but "however tenuous"......in what world is giving CAP multiple millions of dollars defined as "tenuous"?

I guess my relationship with my family is "tenuous" because I only give them a few 10s of thousands each year.   I'm sure my wife will be thrilled. 

[Panache]

I guess my relationship with my family is "tenuous" because I only give them a few 10s of thousands each year.   I'm sure my wife will be thrilled. 

I would love to have a "tenuous" relationship with you, Master Sergeant.

I'll e-mail you the PO Box # so you can send me my checks.

[Fubar]

I guess my relationship with my family is "tenuous" because I only give them a few 10s of thousands each year.   I'm sure my wife will be thrilled. 

Actually, it would be more like the government giving you millions of dollars but writing a law saying it was up to your wife to watch you to make sure you spent it appropriately (regardless if your wife wants the job).

[lordmonar]

I guess my relationship with my family is "tenuous" because I only give them a few 10s of thousands each year.   I'm sure my wife will be thrilled. 

Actually, it would be more like the government giving you millions of dollars but writing a law saying it was up to your wife to watch you to make sure you spent it appropriately (regardless if your wife wants the job).

That is not how it works......the USAF submits the budget.  Congress approves it.   In a few cases.....CAP has been able to get more from congress then the USAF asked for.....but that is not new....or unique to CAP.   Boeing asked for and got congress to force the USAF to buy more B-2 then the USAF asked for......does that make Boeing's relationship with the USAF tenuous?

No....sorry.....once again the "The USAF hates CAP" crowd has tried to spread their unfounded rumors as fact.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Master Sergeant, I do not know how you can derive "the USAF hates CAP" from my personal characterisation of "however tenuous."

I do not mince words, nor do I speak in riddles.  If I intended to say "the USAF hates CAP," that is EXACTLY what I would have said.

However, I challenge you to present tangible evidence that we have the same sort of interpersonal (quite apart from financial) that we had with the Air Force prior to about 1990.

[Brit_in_CAP]

It does not seem like the UKCAP has any formal links with the RAF, unlike ours (however tenuous) with the USAF.

The Canadian CASARA seems like they are fairly well integrated with the RCAF.

http://www.casara.ca/

My only comment here is that you are correct - the UKCAP does not have a formal link with the RAF.

The RAF operates - for a while longer - SAR helos on behalf of the Dept of Trade as well as to support the military mission but that will cease when the whole SAR role is placed with a private contractor in the next few years.  It'll be interesting to see how UKCAP fares at that point.  There might be an opportunity for them - or not.

[lordmonar]

Master Sergeant, I do not know how you can derive "the USAF hates CAP" from my personal characterization of "however tenuous."

I do not mince words, nor do I speak in riddles.  If I intended to say "the USAF hates CAP," that is EXACTLY what I would have said.

However, I challenge you to present tangible evidence that we have the same sort of interpersonal (quite apart from financial) that we had with the Air Force prior to about 1990.

I was not in CAP in the 1990s....but in the 80's let's see.........base support....check got it.   Interest from base personnel in what we do.....check got it.   Interest from USAF members to integrate CAP into their operations.......check got it.

I do not see.....I SAY AGAIN.....I do not see a tenuous "interpersonal" relationship.   As for discounting the financial......in today's air force....a fincial relationship is an INTERPERSONAL relationship......even between MAJCOMs, WINGS and Units......it is all about what you can do for me.....and how much is it going to cost.

The USAF itself has changed a great deal since the 1990s.....one major war followed by a major draw down followed by a major shift in operations........so our relationship may have changed.....but it is because the USAF changed its relationship with itself more then anything else.

So yes......we get less O-rides (on mil jets), and MilAir to NSCAs is not going to happen anytime soon (but back in '86 I don't think I knew anyone who actually got MilAir).  We still get access to base (just more hoops to jump through....but again it is not a CAP only thing).  We still get facilities on base.  We still get support from base for NCSAs and Conferences, and RCS, etc.   We still get DRMO access.   My base commander loves us.  He bends over backwards to do what he can for us.   So.....over all......relatively speaking......it is the same as back then.....just different.