I know some of you have seen this

[flyguy06]

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NewsoftheForce/

Pay special attention to he last part.

[Hawk200]

Fur flies in the Air Force Auxiliary 

Pay special attention to the last part.

My question why would someone in CAP "plot" to make himself a three star CAP General? It aint that serious is it? Three star General or 1L . The pay is the same. Who cares?

I must be missing something, or something is not showing. Was there a link? Sorry if I missed it, but I'm not seeing something.

[Hawk200]

Oops, seeing it now for some reason....

[Eclipse]

I won't bother reading this article, but I will comment that the idea of making Region CC's, or even Wing CC's stars has been around for a long time.

In fact, it would actually align our commanders better with the RealMilitary®.

Nothing to see here, move on.

[Hawk200]

I won't bother reading this article, but I will comment that the idea of making Region CC's, or even Wing CC's stars has been around for a long time.

I think we need to read stuff like this, for the inevitable circumstance that someone will ask about it. The best answer is usually "I've heard nothing to that effect, please direct your questions to NHQ's public affairs office."

That being said, if even a quarter of the statements are true, we have some problems. And I don't know any way that the general membership can do anything about it.

[Eclipse]

OK, like a moth to a flame, I DID read it - typical NOTF crap.

Gross distortions, hearsay, rumor and inconsequential BS presented as both fact and important.

And for the record, MJ-TP was wearing the new, approved uniform combination at that hearing.  If security is dumb enough not to check out EVERYONE that is their fault, not his.

IMHO, the photo showing some comanders in field uniforms shoudl have been more of an issue than the TPU.

BAH!

[Major Carrales]

I am so sick of this AGENDISTIC drivel!!!

I have never read such a batch of "hogwash" in my life.

We bust our tails doing what CAP was designed to do at SARs, SARexs and for the community and these disgruntled former members, likely people who fell out of favor when their own personal ambitions were crushed, publish this crap!!!



Notice, that this is all directed at higher echelons.  Who on earth points out "pandemic" problems from outside an organization, but uses a disclaimer that "they have no problem" with the Squadrons and Groups?  Obviously someone who was a problem with the leadership.

As a Squadron Commander in a Unit that is built is self from the bottom...I SPIT in the faces of NOTF.  

[flyguy06]

I guess the point of me posting this was to ask a question. But before I ask, I want to say that I dont neccessarily agree with this NOTF stuff. I think its kinda biased against CAP but still the question beckons:

Accoriding to this articel TP promised to make Region CC's Generals in CAP and he hasplotted to make himself a Three star General. Come on guys, this is CAP. Is it really that serious. WHo would go through so much effort and energy to obtain a rank that really means nothing. Wheather three stars or 1LT this is CAP and the pay is the same.

I guess this goes back to my whole point that some folks take CP wayyyyyy to seriously. I mean its good to do the missions and get involvd. ut back stabbong and politicing for rank that has no bearing. WHy> I am a Capt in my unit and there are folks that outrank me, but becaus eof my experience inCAP I have more authority and control than they do.

[Hawk200]

I am so sick of this AGENDISTIC drivel!!!

Being sick of it isn't going to make it go away. Stuff like this has probably been going on since CAP was founded, just more people are aware of it nowadays.

Although, I can honestly tell anyone that asks, that I don't buy it. Someone that would make statements like that is either bulletproof, or really too stupid to make General (even in CAP) in the first place. Even politicians that pull those kind of stunts don't survive.

[Major Carrales]

Accoriding to this articel TP promised to make Region CC's Generals in CAP and he hasplotted to make himself a Three star General. Come on guys, this is CAP. Is it really that serious. WHo would go through so much effort and energy to obtain a rank that really means nothing. Wheather three stars or 1LT this is CAP and the pay is the same.

T'was not to long ago some people on this very forum (and in the Portal) suggested making CAP Region Commander's Brig Generals.

National CC- Major General
Vice-CC/Region Commander- Brig Generals
Wing- Colonel
Group- Lt Col
Squadron: Maj or Capt
Flight- ? 1st Lt?

Did that make those people evil?  I think not...

You are correct, this is a moot point being agendistically played into a MAJOR SIGN of EVIL and SINISTER INTENT.

Please...

[Major Carrales]

Being sick of it isn't going to make it go away. Stuff like this has probably been going on since CAP was founded, just more people are aware of it nowadays.

What would you have me do...ask the Texas Wing IG to issue an injuntion to NEWS of the Force since this represents libel/slander issues?  Class action CAP Officer lawsuit for defamation?

In the end it will the the PAOs, the good ones, that will save us from this DRIVEL!!!!

[Major Carrales]

Oh...and how the heck is CAP a Ponzi Scheme?

[sparks]

The most interesting part of the NOTF piece was the very end. The diatribe about CAP from the former member was just more of the same, seen it before.  There have been disgruntled former CAP members its inception and they will continue to sue and make negative comments forever.

The ending agenda items, in particular the one extending term limits, should be taken  seriously. One of them is factual, extending term limits in on the official agenda, a vote will be taken. I hope longer limits are defeated. We don't need a dictator for life at any level.

[DNall]

Well he's misinformed on several points.

1) CAP-USAF does not oversee the BoG!!! The two are co-equal divisions of govt with the same mission - oversight. CAP is large & complex entity with dual status as a govt agency of the AF & as a separate govt corporation.

a) CAP-USAF is charged with oversight of Dept of the AF controlled funds & operations. There are strict, but sometimes confusing limits as to where that power starts & stops.

b) BoG was created in 2000 to oversee the rest of CAP's activities beyond what CAP-USAF has authority over.

c) The BoG is NOT the national Board. The NB, as we all know, is made up of all Wg/Reg CCs acting roughly as the Legislative branch of CAP governance.

d) CAP-USAF is not the AF element in charge of directing CAP activities. That's the Secretary of the Air Force, as delegated to the Executive Officer, and for which all strategic planning occurs at the Air Staff level at the direction of the A3/SHA. Exactly like any other direct reporting agency of the AF.

e) You look real stupid referring to organizational structure or congressional intent when you don't know what you're talking about. As a former congressional staffer & if I may presume to say on behalf of my former boss, I would encourage the gentleman to talk less & listen more, cause he's very badly out of touch with the pulse of Congress. Since he apparently has a PhD, I have to believe he's versed in the scientific method of research, which is the search for facts regardless if they prove or disprove your currently held beliefs. I would hope the gentleman would more thoroughly examine the public record, and then after his views have been dramatically shifted he might care to waste the time of public officials & their staff in finding out where they really stand.


2) So far as the gentleman's contention that the organization is some sort of pyramid scheme, that's just dumb.

a) Reality: I think he badly misses the point that CAP does not in any way exist to benefit our members. It exists to use them (and I do mean use) in order to accomplish missions defined by Congress. The organization is designed to burn good will & voluntary contributions like fuel in order to accomplish that task, and the members be [darn]ed. Now, certainly the organization's leadership should take steps to better service our members so as to extend and retain their good will, but that is not part of our congressional mission. It has never been about what CAP can do for you, I has always been what can you do for CAP & thru CAP for the country, and when you're used up & burned out then we'll close ranks & carry on.

b) Not a pyramid: The scheme he's referring to requires a large initiation fee up front & then promises great returns down the road that are not commonly delivered. CAP actually charges the same fee every year & promises nothing in return but the opportunity to be subservient to the causes established for us by Congress. People quit for the most part because there is not enough opportunity for them to do that.


3) Misc:
a) The IG reports to the BoG, which The CAP/CC is NOT in charge of, not the NB, which the CAP/CC is also not in charge of as we've seen several of his pet proposals go down in flames, specifically the one to extend his own term.

b) The AF has no authority over CAP general officer grades. That's how it moved to Maj Gen & Vice to Brig Gen in the first place, and the second place. AF does get pissed when that grade is abused by CAP, but they have no authority to stop it.

c) As the published photo shows, Maj Gen Pineda appeared at the congressional hearing in the new corporate alternative service dress, NOT an AF uniform. While I have problems with this uniform, it is currently authorized & was worn correctly. There was no need for a security clearance as it was a public session. If it had proceeded to closed session it still would not have required a clearance, and if it had a simple letter granting temporary clearance would have sufficed. That said, CAP members can & do hold AF security clearances when it is necessary to perform the duties AF or other agencies have tasked them with, that would by necessity include the CAP/CC.


I don't like to lend credence by commenting on stories from this agenda driven anti-CAP group, but virtually every item in the story was so obviously false that I believe it merited pointing out so everyone can once again see the poor credibility & outright lies that flow from this gentleman.

[DNall]

The ending agenda items, in particular the one extending term limits, should be taken  seriously. One of them is factual, extending term limits in on the official agenda, a vote will be taken. I hope longer limits are defeated. We don't need a dictator for life at any level.

Limits for Nat CC/VCC were already shot down at the last NB meeting, that is not on the agenda again. A proposal to allow optional extension for one additional term to Wg/Reg CCs is on the table. It has pros & cons. I could see it passing, but not in the current environment.

[Hawk200]

What would you have me do...

I wouldn't have you do anything, and didn't ask it of you. Just saying that it doesn't hurt to be aware of it. I would recommend that you not react so vigorously if confronted with news of this nature. Kinda falls under the "doth protest too much" concept.

[Smokey]

DNall,

As I recall, the AF does have control over the general rank.   I think it was  shortly after 9/11 either the Sec AF or Chief of staff made the decision to make the Natl CC a major general as it was only a one star prior to that. That was based on the perceived duties that CAP was becoming involved in and a 2 star would be commensurate with those responsibilities.

[DNall]

Maybe I'm wrong, but you're going to have to show me where that rule is. My understanding is the AF does not have control over any CAP grade. There was a point in CAP history where the Nat CC was a Maj Gen slot then it was reduced to Brig Gen when CAP got smaller. Then a CAP/CC decided to increase it of his own accord & we got marron grade slides shortly thereafter (they were blue before that). Here recently the AF was asked their opinion so as not to piss them off & CAP made that change. AF couldn't have stopped them if they'd disapproved, but they could have taken it out on us in other ways.

I've heard nothing about going to three-stars & I don't think that's particularly appropriate based on our combination of size, resource, & mission compared to similiar AF organizations/units, and based on the CC grade of the commands we work for. I think the AF would probably see it the same way.

[MIKE]

5. a. Major General. The grade of major general is reserved for members who serve as National Commander, CAP. Promotion to this grade is concurrent with election to this position by the National Board and concurrence of the Chief of Staff, United States Air Force. Such appointments are announced in personnel actions published by National Headquarters. Individuals serving in the position of National Commander prior to 1 December 2002 are not eligible for the grade of major general and will retain previous permanent grade of brigadier general.
b. Brigadier General. The grade of brigadier general is a temporary grade reserved for members who serve as National Vice Commander, CAP, after 1 December 2002. Promotion to this grade is concurrent with election to this position by the National Board and concurrence of the Chief of Staff, United States Air Force. The individual will revert to their previous grade when no longer serving as National Vice Commander unless elected to the position of National Commander. If an individual is elected to the position of National Commander and has not previously served as National Vice Commander in the grade of brigadier general, he/she will be promoted to the grade of brigadier general for 1 year. At the end of this 1-year period, promotion to the grade of major general will be with the concurrence of the Chief of Staff, United States Air Force and the National Executive Committee. Such appointments are announced in personnel actions published by National Headquarters.

Emphasis added.

[Smokey]

Thanks Mike,   it means my old noodle has not fermented past the point of being salvaged.