Pet Peeve: Plural of "Sir" & "Ma'am"

[FlyTiger77]

Although this was covered fairly succinctly in a thread about four years ago, a periodic refresher may be in order:

The plural of "Sir" is "Gentlemen" while the plural of "Ma'am" is "Ladies." Of course, a mixed-company group would be "Ladies and Gentlemen." In a group with several more-senior (to you) female officers and a single more-senior male, it would be appropriate to say, "Sir/Ladies" and vice versa for a group of males and a single senior female.

It has been my experience that adherence to this method greatly enhances the listener's perception of the speaker's professionalism.

[davidsinn]

Thank you Colonel. I hate it when cadets pull an O'Reilly.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Yes Sirs! will keep in mind.

When do the Ma'ams get here?

[FlyTiger77]

Yes Sirs! will keep in mind.

When do the Ma'ams get here?

Cute.

[FlyTiger77]

Thank you Colonel. I hate it when cadets pull an O'Reilly.

Pardon my ignorance, but what in the world is an "O'Reilly?"

[SarDragon]

Radar O'Reilly, the clerk from M*A*S*H.

[davidsinn]

Radar O'Reilly, the clerk from M*A*S*H.

Yup. Always going around saying "sirs."

[FlyTiger77]

Radar O'Reilly, the clerk from M*A*S*H.

Gotcha. I actually HAVE seen that. For some reason I was stuck at "Bill O'Reilly"...

[Майор Хаткевич]

Yes Sirs! will keep in mind.

When do the Ma'ams get here?

Cute.

I try sir.

I've heard the male version a lot, but not so much for the female version. I guess sirs is easier to roll off than ma'ams.

Still tickles me each time when a cadet says it.

[DakRadz]

. . . . . . . . . . . . .

Thank you for informing the unwashed masses of cadets, sir.

Yeah, no, I didn't know that at all.

[FlyTiger77]

. . . . . . . . . . . . .

Thank you for informing the unwashed masses of cadets, sir.

Yeah, no, I didn't know that at all.

You're welcome, but this was in no way directed strictly at cadets. The e-mail that precipitated my comment came from a new SM and I also beat up, with some regularity, some military officers for the same thing.

v/r

[octavian]

"Sirs" is the plural of "sir" and is acceptable to use, though many people in the U.S. prefer "gentlemen". 

[FlyTiger77]

"Sirs" is the plural of "sir" and is acceptable to use, though many people in the U.S. prefer "gentlemen".

I would be interested to see your source(s) as none of the four dictionaries I have readily at hand list "sirs" as acceptable.

v/r

[octavian]

"Company to Company",  Andrew Littlejohn. Cambridge University Press.1988,1994.  "Sirs" is used in a formal setting.  I also have a dictionary which lists the plural of "sir" as "sires" or "seres".

[raivo]

[RRLE]

MSN Encarta sir definition

sir [ stressed sur, unstressed sər ] (plural sirs)

[lordmonar]

Dictionary.com also uses "Sirs" in one of its examples of how to use sir in a sentance.

I do agree that while Sirs may be technically correct.....the pefered address whould be Gentlemen.

and of course YMMV.

[SarDragon]

IMHO, the differences in use are situational. Gentlemen would be used to broadly address a larger group, say in auditorium or similar venue, while sirs would be used to directly address a smaller group in your immediate presence, like Radar used to do.

YMMV.

BTW, I doubt that ma'ams is ever correct.

[vmstan]

If I'm standing there talking to another senior member, and a cadet walks up to tell us it was time for opening, hearing him address us as "Sirs" sounds better than "Gentlemen" -- but that's just me.

If the same cadet came up and told an entire room of senior members that it was time for opening, gentlemen seems more appropriate. I think it just has to do with the number of people being addressed and the situation.

[SarDragon]

There you go, examples of what I said.

Thank you. 

[Eclipse]

It is the respect that is important, not getting tied up in verbiage.

I don't necessarily agree 100% with the original assertions myself.  Ladies and gentlemen sounds like you are starting a play, and doesn't necessarily convey the acknowledgment of subordinate status like "sirs" does, or "commanders" or "Majors", etc.

Your best best is to simply cross the street if the group is too complicated.

[ZigZag911]

"Company to Company",  Andrew Littlejohn. Cambridge University Press.1988,1994.  "Sirs" is used in a formal setting.  I also have a dictionary which lists the plural of "sir" as "sires" or "seres".

I'm sure a gathering of Wing Kings would love being addressed as "Sires"!!!

[SarDragon]

"Company to Company",  Andrew Littlejohn. Cambridge University Press.1988,1994.  "Sirs" is used in a formal setting.  I also have a dictionary which lists the plural of "sir" as "sires" or "seres".

I'm sure a gathering of Wing Kings would love being addressed as "Sires"!!!

Ooh, especially since there are five (I think) female wing commanders at present.

[Krapenhoeffer]

Well, unless I'm mistaken, the formal name for a Conduct Unbecoming charge is...

Conduct Unbecoming an Officer and a Gentleman

Looking at some statements that were spoken in the days of the Continental Army, and given the Medieval origins of Customs and Courtesies, Ladies and Gentlemen does seem to be the correct verbiage.

Alas, sirs and ma'ams would seem to annoy the English majors more, and I have a personal vendetta against them, so I'll stick to whatever seems most illogical. 

[RRLE]

ma'ams would seem to annoy the English majors more

Ma'am should tick off the English majors already. It is a contraction of madam. Which would make ma'ams , uncontracted, to be madams. 

[Al Sayre]

Which, one might think would really tick off the female officers; since by calling them ma'ams, you are essentially refering to them as madams under contract... 

[Turk]

Well... "Ma'am" is simply a contraction of "Madame."  Pluralizing that contraction would, I agree, be incorrect.

Along this line of thinking, once could properly (though not militarily)  say "Mesdames" or "Mesdemoiselles!"

I don't mean to get all Froggy here, but the Lingua Franca has had an impact on the Lingua Angla since 1066!!!

IMHO, the differences in use are situational. Gentlemen would be used to broadly address a larger group, say in auditorium or similar venue, while sirs would be used to directly address a smaller group in your immediate presence, like Radar used to do.

YMMV.

BTW, I doubt that ma'ams is ever correct.

[AlphaSigOU]

Well, unless I'm mistaken, the formal name for a Conduct Unbecoming charge is...

Conduct Unbecoming an Officer and a Gentleman...

Today's UCMJ simply refers it as 'Conduct Unbecoming an Officer'.

[Майор Хаткевич]

That's due to Ladies being in the mix. But historically speaking, the two are linked.

[Patterson]

So what does the military expect to be used??  Sirs or Gentleman?  Lets take their lead. 

[FlyTiger77]

So what does the military expect to be used??  Sirs or Gentleman?  Lets take their lead.

From my military experience, "gentlemen" is the proper plural of "sir."

[FlyTiger77]

Well, unless I'm mistaken, the formal name for a Conduct Unbecoming charge is...

Conduct Unbecoming an Officer and a Gentleman...

Today's UCMJ simply refers it as 'Conduct Unbecoming an Officer'.

Not true.

Article 133 of the UCMJ is still "Conduct unbecoming and officer and gentleman." The current revision of the Manual for Courts Martial United States (2008 Revision) defines "gentleman" as "...includ[ing] both male and female commissioned officers, cadets, and midshipmen."

[RobertAmphibian]

My vote is for ladies and gentlemen, sirs and ma'ams is awkward.