I have recently come into posession of a copy of NCWG General Order # 18 dated 25 April 1955. Paragraph 1 announces the Activation of Hendersonville Senor Squadron, this is a document that causes an appearant contridiction as other articles obtained from the now deactivated squadron indicate a charter date of 22 May 1957. Can anybody shed any light on what was going on with Unit Charters in the 1950's?
There are a lot of differences between charters.
Our unit was chartered in 1942 and (according to CAP) is the longest continually manned unit in all of CAP (I haven't found anything to substantiate this except for historian conversations). However, the charter hanging on our wall says 2008.
When I asked for a replacement charter certificate, NHQ said if they happen to have a copy of the original in their file system they'd put the original date on it, otherwise you get the current date.
Might be a similar case here.
The National HQ has moved several times since the 50's (Bolling AFB-Ellington, AFB, and Maxwell AFB). During these moves many papers have been lost. I have even been told of the departments moving offices within the current HQ who left all the records to be moved outside of their office for the big move the next day, only to find it discarded by the maintainance staff. Now that we are in a computer age, there is more accountability, but prior to the early 70's almost everything was hand processed and paper filed. If your charter date doesn't match the records it could be because they didn't have the date of charters so the new one was given when a new copy of the charter was received. It could also be a resurrected Squadron. Which had gone out of business and than been restarted by a new group several years later.IE: the Boston Composie Squadron (NER_MA-002) was disbanded in the mid-70's and then reestablished in the mid-90's with the same charter number.
Not sure what is going on as several NCWG squadrons have a charter date in May of 57 my own included. I am trying to find out what was happening in the late 40's and early 50's. There is some misinformation and a few contradictions out there. That makes for some interesting reading. ;D
I have had success in the past with getting a replacement certificate from NHQ based on a date and backup documentation (newspaper accounts) on which it is based.
See attached document for history of CAP charters.
Anybody know or have an idea as to why a lot of squadrons on NCWG were chartered in 1957? Did NHQ move that year, and has this been seen in other wings?
I know that NC007 was a WW2 squadron and it flew the first airmail out of Fayetteville. If it has a charter date of 1957, then something happened/changed in the system.
That change is what I am trying to discover, as records that I have found have earlier dates on them. And yes they even mention other units even my own unit. And our charter Certificates shows 22 May 1957 as the charter date.
Quote from: RiverAux on June 13, 2009, 03:49:51 PM
I have had success in the past with getting a replacement certificate from NHQ based on a date and backup documentation (newspaper accounts) on which it is based.
See attached document for history of CAP charters.
I spoke with national about the original charter date and was told that they did not have any information going back before 1970. So I have to look for the old records and other sources of information.
For many older units the "charter date" shouldn't be interpreted as the date the unit was actually formed. For those units, it just represents the date they got the charter certificate.
From the document I posted above:
QuoteCHARTER NUMBERS:
With Civil Air Patrol becoming more computer orientated in the 50's it was decided by National Headquarters to assign wings and regions a five place number. The first two digits designated the wing or region, the others three digits were to represent internal units or various headquarters shred outs. CAPR 20-3 Organization Charters, 30 May 1955 established requirements and procedures. Minutes, National Board Conference, 22-24 May 1956, The National Commander,
Maj Gen Agee, announced out of 2300 units in CAP, only 685 units have been chartered as of 30 April 1956.
Later with the presentation of official charter certificates, designed in 1953 and signed by the National Commander, it was now designated as a unit charter number. But let me assure you that the number issued has no significance as to when membership in CAP originated, was approved or conferred. It's totally alphabetical as only a computer can designate and sort.
That's my guess too.
The squadrons in North Carolina had just received their NEW charter numbers from National Headquarters. Kind of the "realignment" of the wing, and I'm sure every wing went through it at some point - but not neccessarily May 1957.
I can't say for certain if unit's were even considered "chartered" prior to that, however they did have a different number assignment using a system involving the Army (as described in Historical Notes #16 above).
Similarly, my squadron began back in November 1968 and received a charter from National HQ as "Goodhue County Composite Squadron". They later lost that charter, and was re-chartered as a Flight. Then re-chartered later as Red Wing Composite Squadron. Same number throughout, but three separate charters.
That makes a little more sense. I have read Historical notes # 16, and do understand that the Unit's date of activation is not always the official charter date. I was basicly looking for information as to what was going on in the 1950's with the charters. Several Units in NCWG have charter dates in May 1957, and there is evidence that they were active long before that date.
Based on what was in the note, it seems almost as if it was up to the units to request their charters back when they started doing it. If that is the case, perhaps NC Wing submitted all their requests that month.
Quote from: tarheel gumby on June 13, 2009, 12:07:09 AM
I have recently come into posession of a copy of NCWG General Order # 18 dated 25 April 1955. Paragraph 1 announces the Activation of Hendersonville Senor Squadron, this is a document that causes an appearant contridiction as other articles obtained from the now deactivated squadron indicate a charter date of 22 May 1957. Can anybody shed any light on what was going on with Unit Charters in the 1950's?
I don't think charter numbers were invented until after 1948, so the WW II units could have any low number, or none at all.
There were unit numbers in WWII.
Thank you for all of the information. That is at least a good starting point.
Quote from: RiverAux on June 16, 2009, 09:56:21 PM
There were unit numbers in WWII.
River, there were numbered units. But the Charter Numbers commenced with the CAP Corporation, therefore 1948, IIRC>
We're talking about numbers that identify individual squadrons. I was just pointing out that we have had them during WWII. But, there is no evidence that those unit numbers changed until years after CAP became a corporation. Unless you have evidence other than what has been posted here, we didn't start using the term "charter" until the 1950s so the date CAP became a corporation is irrelevant.