CAP Awards and Decorations

[DNall]

I might also propose an AF "CAP Service" ribbon that currently serving members of the military can wear to show their contribution to us - maybe just approve the red service ribbon for that purpose on real mil uniforms. I think AF would go for some of this since they are ultimately the awarding authority & it's their regs that specify who is eligible for what decorations. I mean getting a recommendation all the way thru the CAP chain AND the AU CC is a lot harder than the process for a service member.

There is a service medal already awarded for this purpose. It's the Military Outstanding Volunteer Service Medal. Some CAP senior members currently in the military have earned this award.

That's not exactly automatic & depends on how your command feels about the service rendered. I was thinking more of an automatic award for a couple years CAP service annoted by the AF. The point being to recognize these folks for the specific nature of CAP serivce, and to increase awareness by their peers by calling it the CAP service medal. Actually, the really slickest way to do it is rename the red service ribbon the CAP service medal & have it adopted by AF & treated kind of like the reserve medal - basically making the one CAP medal authorized for wear on military uniform under an AF document (which lets other services wear it too).

Any reaction to the other part of the concept, working w/ AF to recommend CAP members for the many AF awards also authorized for award to civilians serving with them?

[AlphaSigOU]

Now that wouldn't be a bad idea... the reason the CAP service ribbon is called the Red Service Ribbon is because that way back in the olden days of CAP there were three colors of service ribbons, red, white and blue. The White and Blue service ribbons were retired.

[RiverAux]

I think CAP members should make a push for some of the AF medals to be awarded to CAP members when appropriate and especially when there is no real equivalent CAP medal.  For example, the Air Medal is often awarded for doing an exceptional job in getting a damaged plane safely on the ground (in fact that is the example given in the AF awards manual for the proper format for writing the citation for this award.  Every so often we hear of such a feat of airmanship from a CAP pilot and none of our awards really fit.  So, why not get the CAP-USAF State Director to get CAP-USAF (or whoever is proper) to put that member in? 

I'm not terribly impressed with Commanders Commendations.  I've seen them handed out for some incredibly minor actions. 

I think there probably aren't really good awards for exceptional cadet activity, but its not as if they're entirely shut out since they can earn the various ES awards. 

[lordmonar]

That's not exactly automatic & depends on how your command feels about the service rendered. I was thinking more of an automatic award for a couple years CAP service annoted by the AF. The point being to recognize these folks for the specific nature of CAP serivce, and to increase awareness by their peers by calling it the CAP service medal. Actually, the really slickest way to do it is rename the red service ribbon the CAP service medal & have it adopted by AF & treated kind of like the reserve medal - basically making the one CAP medal authorized for wear on military uniform under an AF document (which lets other services wear it too).

No...let's keep with the AFOVSM....it is next to automatic, the language allows it to be approved at the group level, there is not a very high standard of service...it is just for a prolong period of time not for a single event.  I got my for service to BSA and ARC over a two year period.  I have recommended the AFOVSM (and it was approved) for Airman who did many small services over a three year period.

If you gave a "CAP Membership" ribbon/medal just for being a member...then you could literally buy yourself a ribbon.  Maintain your membership for two years and you get a ribbon....well it would certainly help with the dues paying member issue.  You could set up squadrons at Tech School and sign them up by the dozen just for the ribbon alone.

Using the AFOVSM at leasts only rewards those who join CAP and do something.

If you want to get visibility on USAF for CAP service....a CAP duty badge (worn on the right pocket/under name tag) would be better.  Allow wear while a member of CAP and allow permanent wear after 2 years or so.

[DNall]

That's not exactly automatic & depends on how your command feels about the service rendered. I was thinking more of an automatic award for a couple years CAP service annoted by the AF. The point being to recognize these folks for the specific nature of CAP serivce, and to increase awareness by their peers by calling it the CAP service medal. Actually, the really slickest way to do it is rename the red service ribbon the CAP service medal & have it adopted by AF & treated kind of like the reserve medal - basically making the one CAP medal authorized for wear on military uniform under an AF document (which lets other services wear it too).

No...let's keep with the AFOVSM....it is next to automatic, the language allows it to be approved at the group level, there is not a very high standard of service...it is just for a prolong period of time not for a single event.  I got my for service to BSA and ARC over a two year period.  I have recommended the AFOVSM (and it was approved) for Airman who did many small services over a three year period.

If you gave a "CAP Membership" ribbon/medal just for being a member...then you could literally buy yourself a ribbon.  Maintain your membership for two years and you get a ribbon....well it would certainly help with the dues paying member issue.  You could set up squadrons at Tech School and sign them up by the dozen just for the ribbon alone.

Using the AFOVSM at leasts only rewards those who join CAP and do something.

If you want to get visibility on USAF for CAP service....a CAP duty badge (worn on the right pocket/under name tag) would be better.  Allow wear while a member of CAP and allow permanent wear after 2 years or so.

That's a very fair argument. The badge of course would get worn more often in the AF, but does no good for other services like a ribbon would. And, if there was a badge for it then you more than likely wouldn't get recommended for the medal also, which carries promotion points. I don't think it's a complicated issue, & I don't think it's one appropriate for CAP to figure out & propose to AF, but rather we could make a suggestion with some options from which they could work out what they're comfortable with.

How about the other end of this, the recommendation thru CAP-USAF to SECAF for award of AF decorations for service to the AF by CAP members?

These are awardable to civilians for non-combat AF missions:
Aerial Achievement Medal (this is roughly the non-combat version of the air medal)
AF Achievement Medal
AF Outstanding Unit Award (for something like Katrina where CGAux got a presidential unit citation - the AF version requires combat)
AF Organizational Excellence Award (same sort of thing as above)
AF Recognition Ribbon (for something like national senior member of the year)

These also are non-combat, but specify AF personnel, but you could argue a case for CAP members on AFAM if you wanted to & some are appropriate:
Airman's Medal
Meritorious Service
AF Commendation Medal
Humanitarian Service Medal
Military Outstanding Volunteer Service
Note: I didn't put Distinguished Service or Legion of Merit on the non-combat list cause those really seem off the page IMO. I could see some of these other ones though.

Definitions for above: (click pix)

Once again, the stated approval auth for award of AF decorations to civilians is the SecAF. That means the rec would have to go up thru the CAP chain to CAP-USAF & then up the AF chain to the secretary. That alone, plus not changing the stated standards in any way & it ALWAYS being AF that does the approving, plus we're not changing anything, just drawing their attention to something that's already possible... I think we could get an AFI out of it if they're at all amiable to it.

Far as the original discussion, you're just looking for some tweaking of the standards on the CAP service awards that makes them more common, and better standardization / quality control on the commander's commendation. That's more political in CAP, but they could fix it if they wanted to. That's not a bad idea, I just hadn't thought much about it before.

[lordmonar]

That's a very fair argument. The badge of course would get worn more often in the AF, but does no good for other services like a ribbon would. And, if there was a badge for it then you more than likely wouldn't get recommended for the medal also, which carries promotion points.

We get it approved at the DOD level and every service can wear it just like the presidental duty badge and JCS duty badge.  Also....in the USAf the AFOVSM is worth ZERO points!  Only AFAM, AFCOM, MSM, JSAM, JCOM and DSMS and above are worth anything.  So my big womping rack of 24 medals...only five of them are worth any points.

I don't think it's a complicated issue, & I don't think it's one appropriate for CAP to figure out & propose to AF, but rather we could make a suggestion with some options from which they could work out what they're comfortable with.

How about the other end of this, the recommendation thru CAP-USAF to SECAF for award of AF decorations for service to the AF by CAP members?

I think that could/should be done.  Air Medals, DFCs, and other AF medals would be appropriate.   But they would be very limited and mostly to those units on Air Force bases or those at wing and above.  But I like the idea that there could be as system for our primary customer could reward us in some way.

But.....if we open the gate....what about other customers?  ARC, Local Police, Fire Department, FEMA or anyone else we support?  We may have to be very careful of where we really want to go with something like this.

[DNall]

But.....if we open the gate....what about other customers?  ARC, Local Police, Fire Department, FEMA or anyone else we support?  We may have to be very careful of where we really want to go with something like this.

The way I'm looking at it, this is AF decorations to CAP members for AFAM service. It brings us closer together by shared recognition. Also, the AF approves what can go on our uniforms, so I'd think the slippery slope ends there. Part of the reason I mention the idea is an effort to bring CAP more into the AF family. Even if they aren't very common, the openly published proceedure & description goes a long way. However, I do think a lot of the lower end decorations would be relatively possible.

Also, my bad on the points. Don't really know the system, but extra AF decorations would look good in an Army file, even with no points assigned, whereas the CAP decorations are non-documented in the real mil, hence meaningless. I don't know if you could get a badge cleared at DoD level. I'd think you'd have a line forming after that. How about just a CAP specific ribbon device (probably the triangles cause the props look stupid).

[lordmonar]

CAP awards are worth mention on your EPRs....it is only one bullet but for SNCOs that can make the difference sometimes. 

It does not really matter that much to Junior NCOs...except they look at you last 10 years of performance reports when going to E-8 and E-9, so they don't hurt at all.

I do think something can be worked out in the AFI about awarding AF medals to CAP.  I just wonder if it would actually work well...we already have a problem of some people not getting the CAP award they deserve and others getting high level awards for just staying alive.

We need to fix our internal processes first before looking for other avenues of awards.

Definitely something to work toward though.

[RiverAux]

The precedent for awarding AF awards to CAP members when appropriate can be found with the Coast Guard which regularly recognizes CG Auxiliarists with "real" CG awards. 

[BillB]

CAP got regular military awards in the 1940's. The Air Medal for example.

[DNall]

CAP awards are worth mention on your EPRs....it is only one bullet but for SNCOs that can make the difference sometimes. 

It does not really matter that much to Junior NCOs...except they look at you last 10 years of performance reports when going to E-8 and E-9, so they don't hurt at all.

I do think something can be worked out in the AFI about awarding AF medals to CAP.  I just wonder if it would actually work well...we already have a problem of some people not getting the CAP award they deserve and others getting high level awards for just staying alive.

We need to fix our internal processes first before looking for other avenues of awards.

Definitely something to work toward though.

That's a good point on EPRs, I was just thinking we could enhance it w/ additional AF decorations. I see it kind of like being out on a mission when you get that who are you guys question & you say, "the AF sent us to take care of XYZ" which brings credibility & creates some positive assumptions you don't need to shatter. Taking the officer PMEs from AFIADL well ahead of where you need them comes in pretty handy as well. Not bad fro the cross over to other services either. Certainly there's an incentive aspect to it as well.

That's about half the battle. The other end is putting certain appropriate AF decs on civilian CAP members for AFAMs. The point of that being to build the family together from both sides.

I tend to agree that we need our house more in order before we can go fighting for things like this. If I were Nat CC, I'd got to AF w/ a series of "building together for the future" kind of ideas (augmentation, more critical/sensitive HLS missions, etc), and say: "Listen, we just want to put these out there & have you thinking about them up to  the Air Staff level. We think these make a great carrot. Now we'd like to get to work professionalizing our force to near AF standards & we'd like your help doing that. When you think we deserve increasing recognition & utilization as part of the AF family, feel free to use this list of ideas & others we can work on together to best serve the AF & country."

Far as the four CAP decorations out there for this purpose, certainly they can & should be better utilized, but that's tied to the same political progression system that give us all headaches. I don't know if it's so easy to separate, and yes I can see where you'd have to be careful w/ the recs for AF decs to keep them from turning into the same thing. Maybe the recs could be made by anyone directly to State directors & up thru the CAP-USAF to the AF chain to just sidestep the BS, how would that work?

[Pylon]

I tend to agree that we need our house more in order before we can go fighting for things like this. If I were Nat CC, I'd got to AF w/ a series of "building together for the future" kind of ideas (augmentation, more critical/sensitive HLS missions, etc), and say: "Listen, we just want to put these out there & have you thinking about them up to  the Air Staff level. We think these make a great carrot. Now we'd like to get to work professionalizing our force to near AF standards & we'd like your help doing that. When you think we deserve increasing recognition & utilization as part of the AF family, feel free to use this list of ideas & others we can work on together to best serve the AF & country."

:clap:

[SAR-EMT1]

I think there is one AF ribbon that has been forgotten and literally speaking should  be awarded to certain CAP members. This being the AF TRAINING RIBBON  :"For completion of any Air Force technical or leadership activity by a uniformed individual" ETC... --taken from af website.  Examples listed included basic training, SOS, ACSC etc...   CAP members can and do complete these courses through correspondence. And Id certainly say that we qualify as "uniformed individuals"...

[lordmonar]

I think there is one AF ribbon that has been forgotten and literally speaking should  be awarded to certain CAP members. This being the AF TRAINING RIBBON  :"For completion of any Air Force technical or leadership activity by a uniformed individual" ETC... --taken from af website.  Examples listed included basic training, SOS, ACSC etc...   CAP members can and do complete these courses through correspondence. And Id certainly say that we qualify as "uniformed individuals"...

I know what the reg says about the AF training ribbon....but they only award it for initial training.  BMTS, OTS, ROTC, or USAFA.  They don't give it to you for tech school or professional development.  So...its a no go.  And it is an example of how even the USAF itself does not read it's own regulations.

[Hawk200]

No...let's keep with the AFOVSM....

.....Using the AFOVSM at leasts only rewards those who join CAP and do something.

AFOVSM ?

[Pylon]

No...let's keep with the AFOVSM....

.....Using the AFOVSM at leasts only rewards those who join CAP and do something.

AFOVSM ?

Air Force Outstanding Volunteer Service Medal


Some USAF personnel who are also in CAP have been successful in getting this awarded for sustained CAP service - most often seen given at end-of-tour.

[AlphaSigOU]

No...let's keep with the AFOVSM....

.....Using the AFOVSM at leasts only rewards those who join CAP and do something.

AFOVSM ?

Air Force Outstanding Volunteer Service Medal


Some USAF personnel who are also in CAP have been successful in getting this awarded for sustained CAP service - most often seen given at end-of-tour.

Actually, it's the Military Outstanding Volunteer Service Medal (MOVSM). It's awarded to all services.

[DNall]

Point being I think  there's a range of AF decs that CAP members should at times qualify for. I think that would be a good thing for AF embers working w/ CAP to get the extra incentive & potential career bump. Bigger deal though is it'd be recogniztion by AF of CAP activities. It's easy for rank in file AF to look at any of us & see you stack of ribbons they don't know, but you put some stuff up there they do know - they ask what you got that for, you say direct support of AF missions, huh never knew you guys did that & apparently pretty well cause you have to bust your butt for that one. It's a recognition, respect thing & a credibility thing. I don't know, whatever, I think it's a good idea, especially for the exceptional cases like landing dead stick on hwy btwn semis on an AFAM. Keep an F15 in one piece doing that & see what you get. So I'm for a recommendation thru to Air Staff on this one.

[Hawk200]

Actually, it's the Military Outstanding Volunteer Service Medal (MOVSM). It's awarded to all services.

Understand now. MOVSM I know. I recieved it while active duty AF. Got it for my work with CAP. At the time I got it, I was one of three people on my base that had one.