PROMOTIONS: What would you do?

[jimmydeanno]

Let's say that you have a Senior Member, Captain, who moves around quite a bit, transferring from unit to unit.  They've been an active member since they joined, completed the PD levels, etc.  They've just transferred into your unit and in a month they are eligible for promotion to Major. 

You look through their record, see they have earned a MSM, 3 CCAs, served on staff at a few NCSAs, encampments, etc.  They've been a unit level command staff officer, etc.

When it comes time for their promotion, do you...

1) Tell them you're going to hold off promoting them until they "prove themselves" at your unit?

2) Promote them based off their performance prior to moving to your unit?

3) Other?

I've seen it both ways, so I'm just looking for some other opinions.

[lordmonar]

It comes down to the Unit/wing commander.

If the member has been more or less active during all his moves and in the short time that he has been at your unit has show he is ready for promotion....there is no reason to hold back his promotion.

The individual discribed seems like he should be promoted......

[Flying Pig]

CAP is CAP.  As a commander, I would say unless he is showing red flags, go ahead and promote him, especially if they have been contributing members.

I like the saying, "The Totality of the Circumstances."

[Al Sayre]

Based on his previous performance, he seems capable of performing at the level expected of a field grade officer.  I'd say promote him.

[LtCol057]

When I first read this, I had a couple of questions.  1. Is the member moving around because of their job, as in military, or does their moving around consist of local units?   

I'd probably contact the previous units and find out for myself what kind of job the member did.  Find out if they had problems with other members. How was the member's attendance and attitude? I know when I was working at my old job, I could get time off for CAP functions with very little problem, but at my current job, I can't even get off 15 minutes early for a CAP meeting.

I'd also ask the former commanders if the member was still in his/her unit, would they promote the member on time or hold promotion? 

If everything checked out, I'd probably go ahead and promote.

[Airrace]

When I first read this, I had a couple of questions.  1. Is the member moving around because of their job, as in military, or does their moving around consist of local units?   

I'd probably contact the previous units and find out for myself what kind of job the member did.  Find out if they had problems with other members. How was the member's attendance and attitude? I know when I was working at my old job, I could get time off for CAP functions with very little problem, but at my current job, I can't even get off 15 minutes early for a CAP meeting.

I'd also ask the former commanders if the member was still in his/her unit, would they promote the member on time or hold promotion? 

If everything checked out, I'd probably go ahead and promote.

I would agree with LtCol057.

[RiverAux]

I would probably promote based on past performance. 

[Eclipse]

I'm making the assumption that prior to accepting the transfer, you discussed with both him, and his prior commander why he wanted to transfer.

You accepted him, so you must be ok with that.   From there then I would discuss his prior performance with his past commander, add-in what little performance you have seen, and then consider his future plans for CAP.

I would probably promote based on past performance.

Promotions are not rewards for past performance, they are an acknowledgement of accepting increasing responsibility.

As an example, a fully-engaged pilot who is flying o-rides, acting as a mission pilot and generally performing well, but who has no interest in a staff or command slot, and who is already a Captain, is performing at grade level and should not expect a promotion.

[RiverAux]

Promotions are not rewards for past performance,

Actually that is the basis for all duty performance promotions.   Special appointments, mission-related skills promotions and professional promotions have somewhat higher standards (though rarely applied).

[Eclipse]

Promotions are not rewards for past performance,

Actually that is the basis for all duty performance promotions.   Special appointments, mission-related skills promotions and professional promotions have somewhat higher standards (though rarely applied).

Past performance only makes one eligible.

[EMT-83]

As an example, a fully-engaged pilot who is flying o-rides, acting as a mission pilot and generally performing well, but who has no interest in a staff or command slot, and who is already a Captain, is performing at grade level and should not expect a promotion.

You really wouldn't promote this guy? Assuming he meets all applicable requirements, why not?

Promotions and awards are all we can offer in the way of a paycheck. Unless there's some really compelling argument against it, we should promote those eligible.

[Eclipse]

As an example, a fully-engaged pilot who is flying o-rides, acting as a mission pilot and generally performing well, but who has no interest in a staff or command slot, and who is already a Captain, is performing at grade level and should not expect a promotion.

You really wouldn't promote this guy? Assuming he meets all applicable requirements, why not?

Promotions and awards are all we can offer in the way of a paycheck. Unless there's some really compelling argument against it, we should promote those eligible.

What's the point?  All he wants to do is fly and go home.  If he's a Captain he's got the grade he needs and deserves.  Besides, above Captain its not my call anyway and I've had plenty recently that were bounced because of this reason.

Either its members who don't want to do anything but "play", or the empty shirts that finished their PD years ago and just clock TIG, only to pop up when they are due.

This is part of raising the bar, and I agree with it.

[lordmonar]

No one has tasked you to raise the bar.

When your pilot quits because you don't promote him...what then?  Now you are out an O-ride pilot.

There is no requirment to accept higher responsibilty in order to get a promotion.  If there was then they would require staff duty at higher levels of responsibility to attain higer PD level and rank.

So you are add unwritten requirements to the promotion system....not good.

[Eclipse]

So you are add unwritten requirements to the promotion system....not good.

Nope - its clearly in the regs and certainly part of the subjective nature of command prerogative and authority.

This KB article sums it up very nicely. http://tinyurl.com/yzextyh

"The promotion regulation requires criteria for promotion of CAP senior members to be applied uniformly throughout Civil Air Patrol. All CAP unit commanders are expected to use their judgment to determine if a member's performance merits promotion. A commander or promotion board is expected to use reasonable criteria such as involvement, participation, initiative, human relations, job performance and potential to handle increased responsibility as indicators that the individual is deserving of promotion. Good management practice would make sure members understand the criteria for promotion beforehand and counsel members who are denied a promotion on where they fall short so the member has the opportunity to make the changes necessary to be promoted. "

Part of this is the expectations walking in the door.  Either we walk the walk on this or we don't.
If we're just going to treat promotions as automatic based on past performance, we might as well just make them automatic in eServices and move on.

[arajca]

No one has tasked you to raise the bar.

When your pilot quits because you don't promote him...what then?  Now you are out an O-ride pilot.

There is no requirment to accept higher responsibilty in order to get a promotion.  If there was then they would require staff duty at higher levels of responsibility to attain higer PD level and rank.

So you are add unwritten requirements to the promotion system....not good.

To go above Capt via duty performance requires Level III. Level III requires command or staff service. MP is not a staff position. O-Flight pilot is not a staff position. THe Capt in the above hypothetical case cannot promoted to Maj because he has not met the requirements.

[Short Field]

THe Capt in the above hypothetical case cannot promoted to Maj because he has not met the requirements.

Then why was he even being considered.  If you are not eligible, you are shouldn't be promoted.  LordMonar is talking about someone who has met all the requirements - which includes staff work.

[Eclipse]

THe Capt in the above hypothetical case cannot promoted to Maj because he has not met the requirements.

Then why was he even being considered.  If you are not eligible, you are shouldn't be promoted.  LordMonar is talking about someone who has met all the requirements - which includes staff work.

That staff work might well have been years before.  Its not unusual for members to run in the door gangbusters, get a lot of PD done the first year due to good timing, and then disappear, only to pop up occasionally when their TIG is up.

[pixelwonk]

So when (and why) did we begin assuming the member in question is unwilling to be in command or on staff?  Because this is what I read:

They've been an active member since they joined, completed the PD levels, etc.  They've just transferred into your unit and in a month they are eligible for promotion to Major.
You look through their record, see they have earned a MSM, 3 CCAs, served on staff at a few NCSAs, encampments, etc.  They've been a unit level command staff officer, etc.

Oh that's right...  the thread has been hijacked to argue something pretend.
carry on then.

[Eclipse]

The actual question was whether to promote someone you don't really know based only on past performance.

[pixelwonk]

Let's revisit the actual question:

When it comes time for their promotion, do you...
1) Tell them you're going to hold off promoting them until they "prove themselves" at your unit?
2) Promote them based off their performance prior to moving to your unit?
3) Other?

I see a member who has:

• been active from the beginning (desired)
• completed the PD levels (required)
• served on staff not one (required), but multiple times and areas (desired)
• held command positions (desired)

Barring an undesirable answer (which we don't have, yet if any) as to why the member has squadron-hopped, a prediction of future potential is reflected in the member's past performance.  But don't take my word for it.  the "Establishing criteria for promotion in CAP" KB article you posted says just that:

A commander or promotion board is expected to use reasonable criteria such as involvement, participation, initiative, human relations, job performance and potential to handle increased responsibility as indicators that the individual is deserving of promotion.

emphasis mine

A conversation with the member (speaking actually, not hypothetically) and a call to the previous commander, if even necessary, can answer why they have transferred to other units in the past. Whether the member  did the aforementioned staff and command jobs at your unit or another, he still did them. So since the above criteria has already been demonstrated clearly, just what other things do you want them to accomplish, and why?