Chaplain Promotions

[Flying Pig]

Our Chaplain has submitted his paperwork for promotion from Capt to Maj.  Are Chaplains required to attend SLS/CLC?  Or does their time in grade and professional education ie. Masters Degrees, etc. meet the requirements?

[mikeylikey]

After the initial special appointment, members are still required to "catch up" with everyone else regarding PRO DEV.  That means CLC, SLS, colleges, conferences etc.  HE needs it just like anyone else would. 

TIG is only one factor in the promotion system.  Education can only be used once to get a special appointment as well (from how I understand it), such as a Master in theology gets you CAPT, but when you go for Major you can't use the same Masters degree.   

[PHall]

Our Chaplain has submitted his paperwork for promotion from Capt to Maj.  Are Chaplains required to attend SLS/CLC?  Or does their time in grade and professional education ie. Masters Degrees, etc. meet the requirements?

Contact Chaplain (Lt Col) Paul Ward over in Group 4, he can probably help you and your chaplain.

[Flying Pig]

Thanks

[brasda91]

After the initial special appointment, members are still required to "catch up" with everyone else regarding PRO DEV.  That means CLC, SLS, colleges, conferences etc.  HE needs it just like anyone else would. 

TIG is only one factor in the promotion system.  Education can only be used once to get a special appointment as well (from how I understand it), such as a Master in theology gets you CAPT, but when you go for Major you can't use the same Masters degree.   

no, they do not have to "catch up".

Training Requirements. Professional personnel must complete Level I and CPPT prior to appointment to CAP officer grade.  Completion of CAPP 221 is required for all chaplain promotions after initial appointment. Chaplains are exempt from all other training requirements prescribed for promotion to additional grades.

emphasis mine.  also,

20 June 2005

MEMORANDUM FOR: ALL CAP UNIT COMMANDERS

FROM: LMM

SUBJECT: Change to CAPR 35-5, paragraph 25

1. The National Executive Committee recently approved a change to the professional
appointment promotion policy for individuals appointed as CAP chaplains. Effective
immediately chaplain appointment promotion policy will be changed as follows:
Concurrent with appointment as a chaplain in CAP, chaplains may be appointed to
an appropriate grade as outlined below. Requirements for appointment as CAP
chaplains are outlined in CAPR 265-1, The CAP Chaplain Program.

a. First Lieutenant. A clergyperson with a bachelors degree from a
nationally accredited college (listed in the Higher Education Directory or
recognized by the Armed Forces Chaplains Board), and at least five years
experience ministry experience who meets the qualifications for a chaplain
waiver appointment as outlined in CAPR 265-1.

b. Captain. A clergyperson with a bachelors degree and seminary degree or
a bachelors degree and more than seven years of ministry experience.

c. Major. A clergyperson with an earned doctorate degree in a ministry
related field and one year time-in grade as a captain.

[Flying Pig]

Hmmmm...so the plot thickens.

[brasda91]

Hmmmm...so the plot thickens.

not really.  it's plain and simple from the reg's. 

[ßτε]

Just to clarify (perhaps), completion of CAPP 221 and one of the following is all a Chaplain needs for Major (along with Commander approval of course.)

1. 3 years TIG as Captain, or

2. 1 year TIG as Captain and a Doctorate in a ministry related field.

[Gunner C]

Yep - chaplains just need TIG after their initial appointments. 

IMO, chaplains should start as 2d Lts and be required to go through Prof Dev schooling if they want promotions.

GC

[brasda91]

IMO, chaplains should be required to go through Prof Dev schooling if they want promotions.

I agree.  People tend to forget that our Prof Dev classes are related to CAP and how our organization runs.

[Gunner C]

IMO, chaplains should be required to go through Prof Dev schooling if they want promotions.

I agree.  People tend to forget that our Prof Dev classes are related to CAP and how our organization runs.

That wasn't quite a quote. The part about 2d Lt was key.

[ZigZag911]

Yep - chaplains just need TIG after their initial appointments. 

IMO, chaplains should start as 2d Lts and be required to go through Prof Dev schooling if they want promotions.

GC

OK...let's make this applicable to everyone, no more special, mission related, or other sorts of oddball appointments...including promotions to serve as commander -- frankly, if you are not appropriate rank for command slot, you shouldn't get it.

I would permit lt col to be bumped to col on appointment as wing cc....and colonel to BG on election as  National CV/CC....but that's it!

[notaNCO forever]

Yep - chaplains just need TIG after their initial appointments. 

IMO, chaplains should start as 2d Lts and be required to go through Prof Dev schooling if they want promotions.

GC

OK...let's make this applicable to everyone, no more special, mission related, or other sorts of oddball appointments...including promotions to serve as commander -- frankly, if you are not appropriate rank for command slot, you shouldn't get it.

I would permit lt col to be bumped to col on appointment as wing cc....and colonel to BG on election as  National CV/CC....but that's it!

I agree.

[JayT]

Yep - chaplains just need TIG after their initial appointments. 

IMO, chaplains should start as 2d Lts and be required to go through Prof Dev schooling if they want promotions.

GC

OK...let's make this applicable to everyone, no more special, mission related, or other sorts of oddball appointments...including promotions to serve as commander -- frankly, if you are not appropriate rank for command slot, you shouldn't get it.

I would permit lt col to be bumped to col on appointment as wing cc....and colonel to BG on election as  National CV/CC....but that's it!

I agree.

Totally disagree.

Those promotions are part of the ways we entice people into the program. Sorry to break it to you all, but CFIs, MDs, Nurses, EMTs, RTC License guys, CPA, lawyers, Padre's, Aircraft mechs, professors, etc etc etc, are useful to the program. If an extra bar or oak leaf or what not get them in, then so be it.

What about former military guys? Would you give them advanced grade? Because, in a lot of cases, I'd rather then advance grade to a CFI or MD or a JAG before some military guys.

[stillamarine]

Yep - chaplains just need TIG after their initial appointments. 

IMO, chaplains should start as 2d Lts and be required to go through Prof Dev schooling if they want promotions.

GC

OK...let's make this applicable to everyone, no more special, mission related, or other sorts of oddball appointments...including promotions to serve as commander -- frankly, if you are not appropriate rank for command slot, you shouldn't get it.

I would permit lt col to be bumped to col on appointment as wing cc....and colonel to BG on election as  National CV/CC....but that's it!

I agree.

Totally disagree.

Those promotions are part of the ways we entice people into the program. Sorry to break it to you all, but CFIs, MDs, Nurses, EMTs, RTC License guys, CPA, lawyers, Padre's, Aircraft mechs, professors, etc etc etc, are useful to the program. If an extra bar or oak leaf or what not get them in, then so be it.

What about former military guys? Would you give them advanced grade? Because, in a lot of cases, I'd rather then advance grade to a CFI or MD or a JAG before some military guys.

What the original person meant was if your going to get rid of advance rank for one group of people get rid of them all, I believe.  I absolutely agree with that.

Of course I think we should get rid of all advance rank period. None. Zip. Zilch. Do the professional development like everyone else. I think there should be away to transfer life experience to count for some of the PD but to an extent. Everybody starts the same. Everybody earns their rank. So what if you were a Marine Major, Coast Guard Lt Commander, or Army Colonel. What does that have to do with CAP? Sure you learned a lot, and allow some of that to be transfered to the PD but you start as a CIVIL AIR PATROL 2nd LT like everyone else. I was in a senior squadron here that had a ton Lt Cols in it that hadn't even completed lvl 2. Our area is ripe with military retirees and we are blessed to have many that have come over to CAP to help out, but most of them stagnate, and don't do much.  Sure I'm sure there are some that do work on it, but I'm not seeing it.

About 2 months ago, I recruited an AD AF 1st Lt, he finished his lvl I and we sent in his paperwork for his advance promotion to 1st Lt. Next month he is being promoted to Capt in the AF. I asked if he wanted to put in his paperwork to be advanced to Capt in CAP he said no. He wants to do what is proper and necessary to advance in his CAP rank.

Those are the people that I like!

[DogCollar]

Just to clarify (perhaps), completion of CAPP 221 and one of the following is all a Chaplain needs for Major (along with Commander approval of course.)

1. 3 years TIG as Captain, or

2. 1 year TIG as Captain and a Doctorate in a ministry related field.

While the specialty track for chaplains doesn't require ECI 13 or SLS for advancement beyond initial appointment, it is Strongly encouraged that the "normal" professional development requirements be achieved.  I don't know how seriously this taken elsewhere, but in the MER it is taken very seriously.

I personally have taken SLS and am preparing to take ECI 13 exam soon.  Also this month, I will have attended my second Region Chaplain Service Staff College in a row.  I also intend to take CLS.

On the whole, I think that you will see that most chaplains want to be well-integrated into their units.  I would, personally, wonder about a chaplain unwilling to "voluntarily" work towards the normal PD achievements.

I think CAP has much more of an issue with pilots wanting to simply be pilots and are unwilling to do ANY kind of professional development.

[Gunner C]

Just to clarify (perhaps), completion of CAPP 221 and one of the following is all a Chaplain needs for Major (along with Commander approval of course.)

1. 3 years TIG as Captain, or

2. 1 year TIG as Captain and a Doctorate in a ministry related field.

While the specialty track for chaplains doesn't require ECI 13 or SLS for advancement beyond initial appointment, it is Strongly encouraged that the "normal" professional development requirements be achieved.  I don't know how seriously this taken elsewhere, but in the MER it is taken very seriously.

The MER chaplain is the same guy who wanted all region chaplains to be promoted to colonel so they could be "first among equals" (you'll remember that the NEC had the good sense to squash that).  Balderdash.  Chaplains need to learn as a group to minister to ALL members instead of just political conservatives and evangelical protestants.

I'll reiterate - they need to come into CAP as 2d Lts, be required to follow ALL PD requirements, stay out of operational stuff, and be religiously neutral.

GC

[DogCollar]

Just to clarify (perhaps), completion of CAPP 221 and one of the following is all a Chaplain needs for Major (along with Commander approval of course.)

1. 3 years TIG as Captain, or

2. 1 year TIG as Captain and a Doctorate in a ministry related field.

While the specialty track for chaplains doesn't require ECI 13 or SLS for advancement beyond initial appointment, it is Strongly encouraged that the "normal" professional development requirements be achieved.  I don't know how seriously this taken elsewhere, but in the MER it is taken very seriously.

The MER chaplain is the same guy who wanted all region chaplains to be promoted to colonel so they could be "first among equals" (you'll remember that the NEC had the good sense to squash that).  Balderdash.  Chaplains need to learn as a group to minister to ALL members instead of just political conservatives and evangelical protestants.

I'll reiterate - they need to come into CAP as 2d Lts, be required to follow ALL PD requirements, stay out of operational stuff, and be religiously neutral.

GC

Sir,
I have no knowledge of the proposal from the MER Chaplain.  Can you site that for me?

I am far from being considered "politically or religiously conservative."  I have little tolerance for anyone with a political or religious agenda outside the parameters outlined in CAPR-265-1 and 265-2.  You state that you think chaplains should be "religiously neutral."  Does that mean that I should remove my Christian insignia from my uniform, because someone might take offense?  Should I deny that I am Lutheran when asked by parent of a cadet who is of another faith, inquiring about the Moral Leadership requirement?

I also am confused by what you mean when you say chaplains should stay out of "operational stuff?"  Does that mean that there is no room for a Chaplain in ES?  When I look at the regs governing the Incident Command structure of CAP, there is a slot for a Mission Chaplain.  Wings have gotten dinged in their USAF evaluations for NOT filling that slot in real missions and in exercises.

Sir, I honor and respect your commitment to CAP, but, if your restrictions were the norm, then why in the world would CAP even need chaplains?  I can operate effectively from a position of pluralism, not neutrality.  If chaplains aren't involved in operations, what would you HAVE us do?

[notaNCO forever]

 If you are going to promote a chaplain to Lt COL I think National should either make a course that would go over the different things they should know in CAP and then give them their grade.

[Gunner C]

Just to clarify (perhaps), completion of CAPP 221 and one of the following is all a Chaplain needs for Major (along with Commander approval of course.)

1. 3 years TIG as Captain, or

2. 1 year TIG as Captain and a Doctorate in a ministry related field.

While the specialty track for chaplains doesn't require ECI 13 or SLS for advancement beyond initial appointment, it is Strongly encouraged that the "normal" professional development requirements be achieved.  I don't know how seriously this taken elsewhere, but in the MER it is taken very seriously.

The MER chaplain is the same guy who wanted all region chaplains to be promoted to colonel so they could be "first among equals" (you'll remember that the NEC had the good sense to squash that).  Balderdash.  Chaplains need to learn as a group to minister to ALL members instead of just political conservatives and evangelical protestants.

I'll reiterate - they need to come into CAP as 2d Lts, be required to follow ALL PD requirements, stay out of operational stuff, and be religiously neutral.

GC

Sir,
I have no knowledge of the proposal from the MER Chaplain.  Can you site that for me?

He's the guy who got his region commander (who was eventually fired) to recommend to the NEC that all region chaplains be promoted to colonel (with Level 5).  He claimed that the military chaplains he was working with were much higher in rank and didn't take him as seriously. 

I am far from being considered "politically or religiously conservative."  I have little tolerance for anyone with a political or religious agenda outside the parameters outlined in CAPR-265-1 and 265-2.  You state that you think chaplains should be "religiously neutral."  Does that mean that I should remove my Christian insignia from my uniform, because someone might take offense?  Should I deny that I am Lutheran when asked by parent of a cadet who is of another faith, inquiring about the Moral Leadership requirement?

No, a chaplain should treat the Lutheran, the Baptist, the Mormon, the Catholic, and the Jew the same - ministering to their needs, not lecturing them on how the chaplain disagrees with their religious views.  You are there to be a chaplain, not a Lutheran - not saying that you are personally violating any of this.

I also am confused by what you mean when you say chaplains should stay out of "operational stuff?"  Does that mean that there is no room for a Chaplain in ES?  When I look at the regs governing the Incident Command structure of CAP, there is a slot for a Mission Chaplain.  Wings have gotten dinged in their USAF evaluations for NOT filling that slot in real missions and in exercises.

I'm not refering to the mission chaplain position.  That is necessary (if done correctly).  I'm talking about chaplains leading, for instance, CISM teams.  These are, by definition and regulation, operational teams and, while chaplains may serve on them as chaplains, they are not line officers and do not lead/command.  However, chaplains serve as wing and region CISM officers. 

Sir, I honor and respect your commitment to CAP, but, if your restrictions were the norm, then why in the world would CAP even need chaplains?  I can operate effectively from a position of pluralism, not neutrality.  If chaplains aren't involved in operations, what would you HAVE us do?

Support the operations and the operators.