Has anybody heard about this?

[DoubleSecret]

I don't know how even to ask this question, so I'll do the best that I can.

I'm a former CAP member from way way back, so I have been out of the loop for awhile.  As a member of the CSMR (California State Military Reserve), I bumped into a few current CAP members who are also CSMR guys.  They mentioned something that sounded a bit bizarre and I have been able to find nothing about it online nor from other CAP members that I know.

They told me that there is a bill before Congress that is supposed to make the CAP a component of the AF, equal to the Reserve and National Guard.  This seemed to mean that if passed, CAP would be an AF component rather than an auxiliary.  The current discussion according to these folks was the issue of UCMJ and if/how it would be applied to the "new force".   It sounded like the plan was to make CAP into something like a national defense force (federal equivalent to a state defense force)

I am a bit skeptical as I can find nothing corroborating this.  The CAP guys that I spoke to seemed quite adamant.

Can someone shed some light on this?

Thanks!

Walt

It's kind of hard to shed light on the nonexistent.  If you go to https://beta.congress.gov/search?q=%7B%22congress%22%3A%22113%22%2C%22source%22%3A%22legislation%22%2C%22search%22%3A%22%5C%22civil%20air%20patrol%5C%22%22%7D and find legislation that jibes with the CAP guys' claims, give us a yell.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

That's what I'd love...... To be able to volunteer my time AND be subject to a completely different legal system.  Not that I'm running around committing crimes.   If I'm goin to be subject to the same standards as Guard and Reserves there better be a paycheck attached.

SDF's are subject to their State Military Justice codes and most of them are unpaid unless called into active service by their Governor.

This is a very misinformed question and statement. On the Air Force side, CAP falls under CAP-USAF, which falls under the Jeanne M. Holm Center for Officer Accessions and Citizen Development, which falls under Air University, which falls under AETC (an AF MAJCOM).

1st AF, on the other hand, falls under ACC (another AF MAJCOM). But even better (and more relevant to CAP), 1st AF is also AFNORTH, which falls under USNORTHCOM (a US DoD level unified command). AFRCC is also assigned to 1st AF. This would be a great move for CAP.

It is misinformed, which is why I asked the question.  Back when I first joined, I was told that CAP fell under Air University, and the LO's (remember those?) wore the AU crest on their flight suits.

I wonder why CAP-USAF falls under Holm Centre instead of directly under AU or directly under AETC.

I remember a rumour in the late '90s that we were going to be put under ACC, which was a headscratcher for me as we are not a combat component.

I have always thought we should be placed under AFRC (not ANG because of the State/Federal duality that we don't have).

But the moves you describe would, indeed, sound like a good thing for CAP.

[Storm Chaser]

I wonder why CAP-USAF falls under Holm Centre instead of directly under AU or directly under AETC.

My guess is because of our Cadet Programs, since AFJROTC also falls under the Holm Center.

[sardak]

Here is the beginning of the press release about putting CAP-USAF under the Holm Center in 2009.

6/19/2009 - MAXWELL AIR FORCE BASE, Ala. -- Civil Air Patrol-United States Air Force was realigned under the Jeanne M. Holm Center for Officer Accessions and Citizen Development in a ceremony held at the center's Leadership Hall, June 11.

Lt. Gen. Allen Peck, Air University commander, said the realignment is part of the evolution of Air University and falls under the category of an organization change request, or OCR. He said it could have been done with "a simple signature on a piece of paper," but he felt it should be done with a ceremony.

General Peck said realigning CAP-USAF under the Holm Center is the appropriate place for the organization because much of what CAP-USAF does involves citizen development.

The rest of it here: http://www.maxwell.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123155008

As for moving to ACC, you can read about it in the BoG minutes beginning with August, 2013.

Mike

[Майор Хаткевич]

Rumor around the Vegas conference time was that 1st AF was going to take over CAP. As in Military leadership. Rumors are like....everyone has one.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Rumor around the Vegas conference time was that 1st AF was going to take over CAP. As in Military leadership. Rumors are like....everyone has one.

I have heard such rumours so many times...that CAP National CC was going to be replaced by an AFRES two-star...wing/region commanders would be AFRES Colonels...I heard a lot of this in the immediate aftermath of the Generalissimo's little "activities," but at that time I was on one of my breaks in CAP membership (in the CGAUX) and did not take a lot of note of it.

Personally, I do not think more AF direct control would be the worst idea, since on too many matters we do not seem to be able to police ourselves, at least at the higher grades.

[lordmonar]

I was talking to a CAP-USAF guy....and it seems like a pretty done deal.   I think the issue right now is....as PHall said money.    FY 15 is already in the can right now....so it may happen sometime next year.....IF they got the right color money in the right color box.  If not....then someone would have take it "out of hide" if they want to do it next fiscal year.   So MY guess is sometime next summer we will see the announcement with a formal hand over 1 Oct 15.

[RiverAux]

Patrick, which of the several rumors mentioned here are you referring to?

[lordmonar]

Patrick, which of the several rumors mentioned here are you referring to?

CAP moving under 1st AF and ACC both operationally and administratively.

Makes it easier for ACC to shoot cash out to us when they want to use us for non-traditional missions.

Cross MAJCOM MIPERS take too long....but COMACC can make it happen today....and figure out the beans later.

[Private Investigator]

...
Cross MAJCOM MIPERS take too long....but COMACC can make it happen today....and figure out the beans later.

That is a very good point.   

[Private Investigator]

...  The CAP guys that I spoke to seemed quite adamant.

Walt, the nutty ones are always adamant, JMHO   

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Will we get to wear the ACC and/or 1st AF crest on our flight suits?

[lordmonar]

We don't wear the cap-usaf crest now. So no.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

We don't wear the cap-usaf crest now. So no.

It would be cool nonetheless.

[RetiredRoadDog]

This was actually mentioned by Gen Carr at the 2013 National Staff College(NSC).  It was mentioned again at the 2014 NSC.  I was at the 2013 NSC and a friend attended the 2014 one.   

[Panache]

This was actually mentioned by Gen Carr at the 2013 National Staff College(NSC).  It was mentioned again at the 2014 NSC.  I was at the 2013 NSC and a friend attended the 2014 one.

What was actually mentioned?  How CAP was transferring from AETC to the 1ST AF?

[Private Investigator]

This was actually mentioned by Gen Carr at the 2013 National Staff College(NSC).  It was mentioned again at the 2014 NSC.  I was at the 2013 NSC and a friend attended the 2014 one.

Welcome to CAP Talk. 1st post and already quoting the General.   

[Storm Chaser]

This conversation has been ongoing for a while. I think the move hasn't happened yet because of money, but I believe eventually it will.

[Eclipse]

Honestly, CAP uses enigma machines for things Region budget funding allocations,
but present something as "confidential" or "non-Attributable" and it's on Facebook.

Since this is clearly no longer a "secret"...

This idea has been a backchannel "done deal" for over a year, probably more,
even to the point where discussions were held regarding the "spin" because many
people hearing about it were making the reasonable assumption that moving to ACC
would naturally move the emphasis to ES and other operations and reduce the focus
on AE and CP. 

What is typically CAP humorous is that any number of NHQ staffers and others
"in the know" - people with stars and eagles, would either confirm or "not deny"
the rumors, under personal blood-sworn NDA and nonattribution and then be discussing
it openly the next week.  A number of staff posted at the wing or higher in various wings
have been speaking of it openly as if it were fact as well.

The discussions were very active and specific up until early summer and then fell off to nothing.
The hope by many of those with any knowledge, including myself, was that this was being
"quiet-period-ed" in anticipation of an announcement at National Board in Vegas.

It doesn't require legislation, just USAF will and imperative. So it could happen tomorrow,
FY16, or never.

Without getting further into the weeds on details, as several mentioned, the real issue
here is money, plain and simple.  Not just how much, but who gets it and who loses it.

In addition to being a huge administrative undertaking, there are very real considerations
of people's careers and preserving existing fiefdoms.  Not to mention the wide-eyes that
will certainly occur when ACC gets / got a look at the "real CAP".

The other thing to consider is that ACC is an active-duty combat command with a
real-world mission and a lot less time for nonsense.  Those of us desperate for disruptive
change view(ed) this as a "good thing", but most I've discussed this with have had one or another
concern about the kinds of changes this sort of thing would bring.

One could hope that it starts with "So...how many people you got?" and when the answer is
"...funny story about that..." things start getting more direct.

Ultimately who can say, but one would like to think that the Stangnate-Quo^® of today's CAP isn't something
ACC would be happy allowing to continue.



"Stangnate-Quo^®" is a registered trademark of eClipseco Mining and Heavy Machinery Consortium. 
All Rights Reserved.  Let eClipseco service all of your rhetoric and propaganda needs!

[Storm Chaser]

It doesn't require legislation, just USAF will and imperative. So it could happen tomorrow, FY16, or never.

Without getting further into the weeds on details, as several mentioned, the real issue
here is money, plain and simple.  Not just how much, but who gets it and who loses it.

I agree with the last paragraph, but it somewhat contradicts the first one. If the Air Force has the money, it could make the change immediately. But if it doesn't, then legislation may be required to allocate those funds. I don't think it's a matter of "will", but priorities.

(edited for grammar)