CAP / Boy Scout volunteer time

[Dutchboy]

When a CAP cadet is also a boy scout, and they earn "Eagle Scout" can the time used to do the project for the Eagle Scout count towards the community service ribbon?

Almost forgot, please provide citation to CAPR's that apply.

[cap235629]

NO

[Dutchboy]

if it is "NO" , what mandates that answer ( which CAPR ).  I am trying to help research this for a cadet with out internet. (parents don't allow it.)

[tsrup]

if it is "NO" , what mandates that answer ( which CAPR ).  I am trying to help research this for a cadet with out internet. (parents don't allow it.)

CAPR 39-3 would be a good start.  The answer you seek lies within..

[Dutchboy]

if it is "NO" , what mandates that answer ( which CAPR ).  I am trying to help research this for a cadet with out internet. (parents don't allow it.)

CAPR 39-3 would be a good start.  The answer you seek lies within..

CAPR 39-3 i  states the following (but does not say anything against what I am trying to figure out.

i. Community Service Ribbon. Awarded to members who complete 60 hours of community service outside of Civil Air Patrol. The service must be verified by a volunteer coordinator. Community service projects conducted by CAP units do not qualify for this recognition. A bronze clasp may be added for each additional 60 hours of community service.

[tsrup]

then there is your answer.

[Dutchboy]

then there is your answer.

So who is correct? the definitive "no" or what you are saying?

[tsrup]

then there is your answer.

So who is correct? the definitive "no" or what you are saying?

The reg says that the award is given for 60 hours of community service outside of CAP,

Boy Scouts is outside of CAP, you are doing community service.

If you do 60 hours, and it is logged appropriately and approved by your squadron commander, then you qualify for the ribbon.

The criteria for the ribbon is right there, that is the only governance toward it.  If anyone gives you heartburn on it, have them justify it (respectfully of course) against that regulation right there.

[FW]

If the scout did the community service OUTSIDE of CAP, the cadet is good for the ribbon.

Does that make it clearer? 

[cap235629]

To clarify my answer.  The purpose of the Eagle Scout Project is to earn the Eagle Scout Award.  There should be no other motive.  I have a fundamental objection to awarding the CSR for something that has already been recognized in such a way, especially since the Eagle Scout Award is so respected if not revered by society, not just the BSA.  If you put down on a resume that you are an Eagle Scout, it says something.  Put down that you received a CSR and see what kind of response you get. 

It sounds like the cadet is bling hunting.  If he was in the unit when he earned his Eagle, issue him a letter of commendation or something.

Double dipping is not cool IN MY OPINION.  The regs say otherwise.  If I was the CC I would not approve and issue the letter.

YMMV

[davidsinn]

If I was the CC I would not approve and issue the letter.

And you would be going out on a very weak limb.

The regs say otherwise.

All the CC does is file the letter from the outside person and cut the 2a.

[cap235629]

If I was the CC I would not approve and issue the letter.

And you would be going out on a very weak limb.

The regs say otherwise.

All the CC does is file the letter from the outside person and cut the 2a.

He is the approving authority at the squadron level

[FW]

Bill, the regulation is pretty clear however, your points do have merit and, a CSR is very small potatoes compared to the attainment of Eagle Scout. 

[davidsinn]

If I was the CC I would not approve and issue the letter.

And you would be going out on a very weak limb.

The regs say otherwise.

All the CC does is file the letter from the outside person and cut the 2a.

He is the approving authority at the squadron level

Yes, but the regs don't support him as he stated and if a complaint was run up the chain he would lose. It's best to not interject an opinion and follow the regs because according to them there is nothing wrong with using that service for the ribbon.

[cap235629]

so a Commander has no discretion?

[FW]

Do we really want to go there???

[Ed Bos]

I agree, a Commander should follow the regulations when they're clear, and in this case they are.

Also, a Squadron Commander isn't necessarily the approving authority, depending on how the Wing develops it's supplements. Service Awards are approved by the Wing Commander via the chain of command, unless this approval delegated in writing to subordinate commanders. (CAPR 39-3, Section F, Para 19)

The idea that a hours a scout spends on his Eagle Project aren't community service that deserve to be counted as community service hours seems a little far-fetched, IMHO.

I'm of the opinion that the community service ribbon just shows what a person has done, and isn't actually some sort of hard-won honor. Why hold back someone from counting those hours toward the 60+ they have accrued in order to wear the ribbon?

[davidsinn]

so a Commander has no discretion?

Only where his superiors will back him up. This is black and white. No room for personal interpretation in this particular case.

[RADIOMAN015]

Frankly if you are getting an award or designation from your volunteer activity from another agency, than I see no reason for allowing in double dipping.

This entire CAP community service ribbon is assine.  Why don't we just do things because it nice to help our community/others in need and our recognition is just knowing we did the right thing  

Again this is another AF wanna bee adaptation that got put on the books.  Last time I looked isn't CAP about "Serving Communities, Above & Beyond?"
RM 

[Major Carrales]

To clarify my answer.  The purpose of the Eagle Scout Project is to earn the Eagle Scout Award.  There should be no other motive.  I have a fundamental objection to awarding the CSR for something that has already been recognized in such a way, especially since the Eagle Scout Award is so respected if not revered by society, not just the BSA.  If you put down on a resume that you are an Eagle Scout, it says something.  Put down that you received a CSR and see what kind of response you get. 

It sounds like the cadet is bling hunting.  If he was in the unit when he earned his Eagle, issue him a letter of commendation or something.

Double dipping is not cool IN MY OPINION.  The regs say otherwise.  If I was the CC I would not approve and issue the letter.

YMMV

I disagree...humbly and will justify why (it may not be why you would expect).  I believe that becoming an Eagle Scout is a most excellent form of Community Service in itself.  That becoming such...which 1) takes adherence to a program with a high degree of emotional and time investment, 2) provides a significant contribution to the greater community via the project, and 3) holds a legacy of excellent (I know the Eagle Scout truly is a "stand up fellow," every one I have met is a person of magnum character...is in the same spirit as the Community Service ribbon.

In fact, I think that the Community Service Ribbon might be the best tacit way that a scout could be recognized in CAP for those community service actions.  The purpose of the whole endeavor is to " do a good turn daily..." not to "BECOME AN EAGLE SCOUT."  The prize is not in the AWARD as it is in the SERVICE.