"First Reponse Team" ---- Yes or No in CAP

[maverik]

Okay after running the squadrons ES night tonight I have discovered the following problem:
If we had a mission right now, our squadron doesn't have adequate paperwork in my oppinion to call up the most qualified. We just call the first person.
Solution:
Making a spreadsheet of the most qualified members: name,quals etc. and making them the squadrons first response team. These guys will be the first ones called up when we have a mission and they will have the most training obviously, also involvement is also a factor because I don't want someone who has every single qual but isn't active on a mission so my question is can the squadron commander and ES officer set this up? Or is it a no go?

[Timbo]

Oh by all means you can do it.  However in the process and after implementation, your fellow Squadron members that were not considered  "good enough" (and that is what you will be conveying) will let you know.  They may even become even less involved. 

So you have to weigh your options.  Remember you need to keep volunteers happy, or you will not have any volunteers in the end. 

The idea is doable, but is it what you should do??  Your decision. 

[Duke Dillio]

I have found that in most cases, you establish an alert roster and call everyone and then be happy with whoever answers the phone AND shows up.  

The issue that you may be raising is actually kindof prevalent in some wings and I wish it would stop.  It kindof sounds "good ole boyish" to me.  If you are in the club, you get to play in the real missions.  If not, then you won't get a call.  I call everyone and see who I can get.  Then, I work from there.  Each mission, training or actual, is in and of itself a training evolution.  If the people can't handle a real mission in training, how are they going to handle a real mission when they are fully qualified.

I admit I might have misinterpreted your statement but this is the way I read it.  Please excuse me and correct me if I am reading it wrong.

[Eclipse]

It kind of sounds "good ole boyish" to me.

Ditto.  "Most qualified" is very subjective and is likely to cause unintended consequences.

What about the newb who just came back from NESA Aircrew School vs. the top guy in your squadron who hasn't flown in 6 months because of personal commitments? Who's "most qualified"?

It also depends on your state - mine does a wing-wide call-up for everything, so while the top performers are known, anyone can call direct to the IC and report in.  Some units do a unit-level call-up after the wing-wide one pops, but others don't.

This also touches on the idea of "aircrews" vs. "loose assets" - CAP-USAF has indicated to us that they like the idea of proficient crews working together, and that's a great idea in theory, but CAP-USAF is used to a consistency of training (i.e. all pilots do X-Y-Z, probably have sat in the same classrooms, etc.) that doesn't exist in CAP.  You can expect a USAF Flight Engineer to have at least a baseline of training and experience, while many of our Observers have trouble using the radios.

Locked-in aircrews can make it very difficult for the newbs to play.  Its bad enough as it is with people who only want to work/fly/whatever with a select group of members because they know and can trust them (I fess up to this as well).

[maverik]

What about the newb who just came back from NESA Aircrew School vs. the top guy in your squadron who hasn't flown in 6 months because of personal commitments? Who's "most qualified"?

I stated that I will take the most qualified that is active. I think this would be a good thing for my squadron because we have a tendency to believe hey I wasn't picked the first time, but hey look I can do this,this and this to get qualified and be on the team. I am in no way going to limit the number of people who can be the first called. So really I guess I am starting an organized calling list in which it will go:
1. Cadet judy- GTL,CUL,MRO etc
2. Cadet Joe - GTM1,MRO
yes I think that's what I'll do, thank you.

[Short Field]

So the most qualified get more qualified and the less qualified get less qualified?  Oh, the lessor souls can attend all the training and maybe one day get a call if the "most qualified" ones are busy.

Establish an alert roster and rotate the names on it from top to bottom so everyone gets to play.  This will give you more experienced people in the long run.   You can break it out by specialties if you want - i.e. call the GTLs until you get one, then call the GTM3s to fill out the team.  If you want a "on-call" alert team, fine.  Pick the team from the roster and then rotate the people on it.   Don't always call your "best" MRO to work the radios - they might want to actually go out on a mission.

[maverik]

So the most qualified get more qualified and the less qualified get less qualified?  Oh, the lessor souls can attend all the training and maybe one day get a call if the "most qualified" ones are busy.

Establish an alert roster and rotate the names on it from top to bottom so everyone gets to play.  This will give you more experienced people in the long run.   You can break it out by specialties if you want - i.e. call the GTLs until you get one, then call the GTM3s to fill out the team.  If you want a "on-call" alert team, fine.  Pick the team from the roster and then rotate the people on it.   Don't always call your "best" MRO to work the radios - they might want to actually go out on a mission.

this is what I was talking about. Kind of. In no way am I as an ES officer going to tell cadets to get less qualified. No. I actually do like the idea though to have seperate teams and rotate them around, makes more sense than what I was proposing so I thank you.

[davedove]

All I can think of right now is that you must have a large roster to draw from.  The way our squadron does it is the ES Officer calls everyone on the list and then works with the ones who respond.  Granted, that tends to be the same people a lot of the time.  If you have the luxury to pick and choose who to call, because they are the "most qualified" you are lucky indeed.

Now, as I'm sure others will agree, the ES Officer tends to call certain people first because they are more likely to respond, but that doesn't stop him from calling the others as well.

[Stonewall]

Most qualified?

You're either qualified or you're not.  It's that easy.

You can't call a Mission Pilot who isn't GTM qualified for a Ground Team mission and you can't call a Ground Team Leader for a mission that requires a Mission Pilot.

We have A LOT of missions, almost weekly.  We have a "first response" list that rotates every week with a primary team and a secondary team.  95% of our missions are non-distress ELTs so our teams consist of 2 seniors each.  Which I plan to change with the scheduling of qualified cadets.

[Flying Pig]

It willl work until your "first response team" members are out of town or the mother in law is visiting.  And then your other members will be like..."oh..whats the matter....your boys out of town?"

[Duke Dillio]

^^^ and then you might not get anybody to come out...

[maverik]

Okay I see where this could kind of go the wrong way. We really don't have alot to choose from though since it breaks down ike this:
okay so 5 cadets have GT quals and the other 4 (this is an example not actual numbers) are trainees so I guess I really have one option, alright thanks again.

[Al Sayre]

Depending on the size of your AO, you might want to think about the "Closest Qualified".  I'm one of the guys who gets the first 2:00 a.m. phone call, and that's how I start the missions.

I ask myself the following questions:
What squadron is closest?
Do they have personnel who are qualified to do the mission?
Do they have the assets necessary to prosecute the mission?
Will I need more than just this one squadron and their assets?
Where are the next closest assets?  

Then I start waking people up...

[jeders]

Okay I see where this could kind of go the wrong way. We really don't have alot to choose from though since it breaks down ike this:
okay so 5 cadets have GT quals and the other 4 (this is an example not actual numbers) are trainees so I guess I really have one option, alright thanks again.

Remeber, supervised trainees can go on actual missions. Don't let there trainee status stop them from being used.

[maverik]

okay, but I have a question  when deploying teams how would I go about getting some of my members as radio operators and supprot roles providing they are qualified and want to.

[Duke Dillio]

I don't quite understand your question.  Are you saying you have MRO's that you want to put on GT's?  If that's the case, just get them their training quals as GTM-3's and they can participate as GTM's.  If you are talking about setting up a satellite mission base for people to support the GT's then you can do that.  When I have run missions in the past, we have had GT's deploy from our squadron facility in which we had a satellite mission base which ran comms and support.  The IC could be miles away and talk to us here via phone or radio.  Then the satellite base would relay information to us in the case that the IC could not contact the GT's directly.  Again, I didn't quite understand what your question was... 

[RiverAux]

When I was the person making these calls for my squadron I tended to get the minimum number of people with the necessary qual (say a qualified Mission Pilot), then I would call anybody in Trainee status for the other jobs (Observer, Scanner) and then if there was any spots left would more or less work through a rotation and the first person I could get in touch with who was willing to go, got that slot. 

The fact is that you can develop all sorts of crazy alert call-out schemes, but they ALL will fail. 

The best advice is to be fair and make sure everybody more or less gets an equal chance throughout the year. 

You get a lot of good will from the members by just calling and asking them, even if they can't go that particular night.  It motivates them to stay active knowing that they are needed.

Now, if you get in a situation where you've called a particular guy 6 times in 3 months for missions and he has turned them all down, its time to have a talk with him about his dedication to the ES program. 

[cap235629]

we came up with a VERY easy method.

We have an account with Onecall Now messaging service.

For $3.00 a year per member we are able to alert the entire squadron with just 1 phone call.  The commander or designated representative calls in and records a message (in our case it is only used for actual missions, but can also be used for any message that you choose to forward).  Each member provides up to 5 numbers that they wish to be reached on and the service calls them ALL.  It even has an option for polling so you can say things like "press 1 if you can respond".  You can also set up subgroups (we have one for aircrew, ground team, command staff and all members).

The service offers UNLIMITED calls for the entire year.

For more information check out www.onecallnow.com

The $3.00 per member rate is not published.  You must specifically ask for the "Military" rate.  The direct contact for this rate is Ms. April Beckner, senior account manager.  Her direct email is april.beckner@onecallnow.com

If you have any questions please feel free to email me or send me a PM

[maverik]

Sqn72DO, I was saying that if I have members that are qualified MRO's then how would I go about getting them on mission base support staff?

[N Harmon]

We have an account with Onecall Now messaging service.

We use a similar service (www.call-em-all.com).

[Duke Dillio]

Sqn72DO, I was saying that if I have members that are qualified MRO's then how would I go about getting them on mission base support staff?

Well, if there is a mission base than it isn't a problem unless the mission base is on the other side of the state...

Otherwise, you could do what we do which is set up a satellite mission base and let them work from there.  You would have to keep get an okay from the IC but for the most case, the IC's around here prefer to let us go that way because then they don't have so much paperwork to do.  Just a thought for you.

[Short Field]

Sqn72DO, I was saying that if I have members that are qualified MRO's then how would I go about getting them on mission base support staff?

Best way would be to directly contact the person who is assigning people to mission base positions.  That would probably be either the IC, the PSC, or the CUL.   Offically, they should be able to just sign into mission base and be assigned to where their qualificaitons are needed the most.  Unoffically, a bit of pre-coordination never hurts.

[IceNine]

This is the one I use.  It is based off of a corporate overtime rotation.  The concept is that everyone that is qualified gets called on an objective basis, to ensure equal opportunity for training etc.

The concept is very simple. 

If we have a mission, you get called and you participate that mission counts as 2 points.
If we have a mission, you get called but DO NOT participate that mission counts as 1 point.
If we have a mission, and we don't call you.  That mission counts as 0 points.

On the next mission the people with the least points get called first and so on.

We got an Outstanding on our last SUI with this being a benchmark item.

(FYI- I use excel, and I can't load that here.  If you like what you see send me a PM with your email address I'll pass it along.)

[Short Field]

Nice concept.  I wanted our squadron to start using something like this before we went to a wing wide alerting system.  However, this will still work well for the initial launches. 

The only recommendation I would make would be to split it into three sections - aircrew, mission base, and ground team.  That way a aircrew or ground team member who works mission base doesn't get dropped down on the list because they stayed behind to run the mission.

[wingnut55]

Great Subject

As will be expected  2009 will see massive cutback in training funding, So:

1. Should training funds be allocated  on a basis of: those who actually fly vs the flying club people who seldom if ever fly a mission?

2.  Should all the States have 'First response Teams' and Standardize  how the USAF/CAP alerts them.? In CAWG we have people manning a Telephone  with immediate response  that activates a .5 hour response to AFRCC by a Qualified IC.  (24/7 x 365 days/year)

3. Should "First response Teams", include a Tree of Flight Crews, IC, GT, a Base staff? 

[Short Field]

AFRCC calls one phone number for our state which automatically routes to the on-call IC.

If you want to fairly "share the wealth" on actual missions, I firmly believe you need to have separate rosters for aircrews, mission base, and ground teams.  Why should I lose my chance to fly on the next mission because I manned the radios on this mission?  A lot of aircrew members refuse to get qualified in mission base positions just so they don't have to stay on the ground. 

 

[arajca]

If you want to fairly "share the wealth" on actual missions, I firmly believe you need to have separate rosters for aircrews, mission base, and ground teams.  Why should I lose my chance to fly on the next mission because I manned the radios on this mission?  A lot of aircrew members refuse to get qualified in mission base positions just so they don't have to stay on the ground. 

Those same aircrews are the ones who get pissed off when they are passed over for flying time at SAREX's for the crew that spent time helping at mission base when there were more aircrews than aircraft.

[maverik]

Great Subject

As will be expected  2009 will see massive cutback in training funding, So:

1. Should training funds be allocated  on a basis of: those who actually fly vs the flying club people who seldom if ever fly a mission?

2.  Should all the States have 'First response Teams' and Standardize  how the USAF/CAP alerts them.? In CAWG we have people manning a Telephone  with immediate response  that activates a .5 hour response to AFRCC by a Qualified IC.  (24/7 x 365 days/year)

3. Should "First response Teams", include a Tree of Flight Crews, IC, GT, a Base staff? 

Exactly.. and you know I simply do not want people who are untrained in the field sure if they want to get qualified then I will include them in the first response team roster. Just because we have a van full doesn't mean people don't have POVs so if the whole squadron were to be qualified I guarantee that my squadron commander would call every single one of them and find away to get them to the mission. Also if you're in a squadron that has a flight crew or two then have a first response flight crew if you know you can only take one.

[Timbo]

........Exactly.. and you know I simply do not want people who are untrained in the field

So......train them!!!  Instead of creating lists and ranking individuals, why not train those that want to be trained, and call every single one of them when a mission comes up.  If you have too many personnel then the ones that were called first because of how they are written on your alert roster (most likely alphabetically) get the mission and too bad for those that have a last name starting with "Z".

 

[maverik]

agreed although it takes a little longer to train someone that doesn't want to put in effort because a 5th monday ES ngiht won't cut it I believe it is ultimately the trainees responsibility to get out there and train by going to NESA and volunteering to give up their weekends to go to a SAREX.

[Timbo]

^ That is why I said "train the ones that want to be trained".  If your unit is only doing ES on 5th week meeting nights your unit is in the wrong.  If you expect that members should have to go to NESA or SAREX's and not get "in house" training that is wrong (not referring to you SARADDICT) 

Many members don't have the time to go to a week long training activity.  They must get their training at the local level, and on an occasional weekend.

[Duke Dillio]

I would also point out that sometimes the best training comes from being in the field during an actual.

As for numbers, on ground teams it is usually better to have more people than less.  It is very difficult to do a proper line search with four people.  On the other hand it is difficult to take a ground team to the field in a 15 passenger van.  You have to weigh the pros and the cons when preparing your teams for the field.  Also, why does it have to be NESA or a SAREX?  You can sign tasks off during a squadron bivouac/FTX.  They just need two with mission numbers to get qualified.  Normally, I try to run 4 exercises a year.  For every FTX/bivouac, I apply for a mission number.  These normally don't get turned down because I ask for them to be non-funded and then we use squadron money to pay for the incidentals (gas, etc.)  It is not that difficult to get the people trained and ready to deploy.  Every year, we train and qualify people up to GTM-1 with the majority becoming UDF/GTM-3 qualified.

As for aircrews, that is an entirely different story...

[maverik]

I unerstand and actually I want to try and work on geeting that ES night to be the 4th or 2nd monday and our main problem is we have people that are almost qualified GTM3s, but unfortunately we have a hard time getting people to come to southern Indiana and train cadets in say B-CUT everything else I can teach while my squadron commander signs off on it (i know I can but i feel better when he does it, just for issues with I being under 18). AS far as FTX's go e need to get up to speed on that because half the time I (the ES officer) and another cadet (kind of like another ES officer) barely get to plan these things and that's on me which I am working on. So my next question does anyone have a method of planning a FTX to run effiecently?

[heliodoc]

SARADDICT

Do not knowbit what you mean by efficient..... I'll give some help to what I am capable of

Start small in bite sized chunks.  Start with the things that folks need immediately to get signed off.

Find a training area. A state park or National Guard training site or even an armory.

The training does not need to be elaborate or expensive or have every CAP bell and whistle.

Make a round robin type of operation, individual training stations that cover the basic GTM-3 tasks and progress from there.  Just use the SQTR sheet to develop small training stations to handle 3 to 5 people to start with and make sure folks with "SET" qualifier are observing so no one is getting shorted any training opportunities

Station 1  Task O-0001 Prep GTM individ equip
Station 2  Task O-0002 Conduct individ refit

and so on

Make it fun

Tear apart the 24 /72 pack and redo for task O-0002 have the newbies tear it apart and watch them and suggest different repack methods, for instance


Some of the tasks can be discussed as indicated in the taskbook, others probably need to be demonstrated.  This stuff isn't so called "Hawk Mountain toughguy stuff"  like the old method of dropping for 50 pushups 'cuz ones socks weren't rolled right

The idea is to make it fun and a learning experience and all this HOOAH stuff about being 100 per cent trained in CAP in one weekend and in one year is non sense

The idea is to get both the cadets and seniors out on these missions and to say " you're not going 'cuz one did not complete task  O-0103 this weekend  or past meeting" is also weak.

Training is a 24/7/ 365 operation.  Training even a little when not on a CAP sponsored mission still can go on.  Practice, Practice is the key.  It would be nice to get all the SQTR's signed off on a weekend or meeting night, but not always realistic.

Some of these tasks I have done on a on demand basis right in the field.... its called OJT and if folks are not doing this already, then they are wasting folks time saying that all this needs to be done only at a FTX

Wrong

Hope this helps a little and hopefully this fits 'efficient"

[Duke Dillio]

That's a point that I forgot to mention.  You don't have to be in the field to sign off tasks.  You can do that at a meeting night or whatever.  With respect to the ground teams, be aware that they are not in an official training status until they have completed all of the familiarization and prep training.  That's basically making sure they have the right equipment, that they know how to identify and treat hot and cold weather injuries, etc.  That doesn't mean they can't go to FTX's but it does mean that they cannot participate in AF missions as a GTM.  Just some things to consider.

[RiverAux]

Some of the tasks can be discussed as indicated in the taskbook, others probably need to be demonstrated.

I can't think of a GT task that you can get signed off on for just "discussing" something.  You either have to demonstrate the ability to perform a task or prove that you know some bit of knowledge by answering questions about it correctly.

But you are right that there are a lot of things that can be done indoors.

[Nathan]

Just my opinion, but it seems counterproductive to call out the people with all the experience, and leave the "less qualified' people at home.

I mean... let's be honest... how many REAL missions do we end up on? What's the percentage of hanger-bangers out of all missions called? Do we really need the super-duper commando team for EVERY mission, considering that 99% of the missions in most wings consist of finding an ELT in some grumpy pilot's garage?

Leaving the less qualified people at home doesn't get them any better, and when your "first response" team isn't fully available when you need it, or when they start filtering out due to other committments, I think you may wish that you had better trained the guys you left home on the hanger-bangers.

I would just call everyone. Really. The teams should ideally consist both of the really experienced and the unexperienced, in order for the more experienced to pass on their knowledge and training to the guys below them. That way, you'll be keeping your top guys sharp, and sharpening your less experienced members. I suppose if you have some sort of a disaster mission or something of the like, you can have your A-Team roster, but even then, CAP doesn't generally get called into missions that require experience far beyond what a NESA graduate has. I can't think of many excuses to leave anyone who is qualified to participate in a mission home. After all, they work for free. Why not use them?

YMMV

[DNall]

Thought I responded to this earlier, well guess not...

Do not put all your best people on one go-team. It cuts off training/opportunity to everyone else, so you can't replace your top folks over time, and you have no one to back them up.

Spread your resources out. Split your best folks over a couple teams (however many you can support), and fill in the rest with trainees & less experienced folks. That gives them an opportunity to learn from the best, and gives you extra bullets in the magazine. Build 2-3 teams on that format, and rotate them on alert status.

[RiverAux]

It would be great to have enough trained personnel to have semi-permanent teams as DNALL suggests.  It would make it a bit easier to rotate call-outs in a fair manner.  However, for the average squadron which doesn't have a lot of trained people to start with, it would be difficult to make work in real life, with the possible exception of 2-person UDF teams for ELT missions.