Using VHF for non USAF Missions

[SSgt Rudin]

OK, well we all know that ISRs are great, as long as the person you are trying to contact is within yelling distance. I asked my SQCC why we weren't using the VHF's on SIMPLEX. He said that we aren't permitted to use VHF CAP Freq's on non-USAF sanctioned missions. I argued that we use them at encampment and other Wing CP non-es related activities. He could not cite a regulation it was just "what he was told" by group. If someone can tell me where this is in black and white it would be appreciated, if it's not  for VHF at parking details, relaying messages from one end of the parking lot to the other via an other wise unnecessary ISR base station is getting old.

[JoeTomasone]

I can find nothing in CAPR 100-1 prohibiting the use of VHF simplex with the exception that certain frequencies must be coordinated by Wing to avoid repeater interference.   See Section 8-1(a), pp. 21.

[SSgt Rudin]

Thanks I saw that when I looked, just wanted to make sure I didn't miss something. My luck it would be 1 sentence in ultra small font on a random page.

[JoeTomasone]

Fortunately, Comms doesn't seem to have any "sneaky regs" - everything is pretty darn straightforward, if somewhat tough to be fully expert on.   In teaching an A/BCUT class today I made a few errors; and looking back over this post I see I made one more.   

[RiverAux]

Never heard of anything like that.  Just doesn't make a bit of sense.  For instance, how would we manage non-AFAM practice missions? 

[PHall]

Your SQ/CC is on drugs. You can use the VHF frequencies at any CAP function.
As long as you're conducting CAP business there should be no problems.

[SJFedor]

As long as it's official CAP business, sure. If your official CAP business is support of a local event by doing parking detail, I'd consider that official CAP business.

[CadetProgramGuy]

OK, well we all know that ISRs are great, as long as the person you are trying to contact is within yelling distance. I asked my SQCC why we weren't using the VHF's on SIMPLEX. He said that we aren't permitted to use VHF CAP Freq's on non-USAF sanctioned missions. I argued that we use them at encampment and other Wing CP non-es related activities. He could not cite a regulation it was just "what he was told" by group. If someone can tell me where this is in black and white it would be appreciated, if it's not  for VHF at parking details, relaying messages from one end of the parking lot to the other via an other wise unnecessary ISR base station is getting old.

According to Regulation......

Poo Hucky...I just can't find the specific reg that says that.....

Use the VHF.....

[Frenchie]

The aircraft CAP radios are almost always used on Simplex.

The radios are also loaded with the state DPS and other agency frequencies as well.

I can assure you my squadron uses them on all sorts of missions regardless of whether they are USAF funded or not.

[Eclipse]

As stated you can use your CAP radio(s) for any CAP business - ES, CP, AE, whatever, that's why we have them. 

[tribalelder]

Source of this confusion - it's FRS we can't use on USAF missions ... unless we are trying to contact the object of the search.

However, our aux on/aux off status does raise a legitimate legal authorities issue about our radio use.  NTIA 'licensing' is limited to stations owned and operated by the United States (right from the authorizing statute).  That clearly includes us on USAF missions, when we're aux on.  It's even covered gov't contractors sometimes (case law). 

There's case law about CAP, mostly arising from cases where decedent's estates were suing CAP and trying to include the USAF as a defendant, that we're not an instrumentality of the United States unless we're on a USAF mission. Does that mean, on non-USAF missions our stations are not operated by the United States ?

We won't have an authoritative answer until a member, talking on a corporate radio but NOT on a USAF mission, is involved in a personal injury accident and the plaintiff includes the USAF or United States as a defendant.

[RiverAux]

Unless there is some evidence that the AF has only given us permission to use the radios for AFAMs (which no one thinks is the case), there is every reason to believe that "Civil Air Patrol" no matter what the status is authorized to use the frequencies. 

Federal law supports use of the radios for nonAF purposes:

(a) Use of Federally Provided Resources.— In its status as a federally chartered nonprofit corporation, the Civil Air Patrol may use equipment, supplies, and other resources, including aircraft, motor vehicles, computers, and communications equipment, provided to the Civil Air Patrol by a department or agency of the Federal Government or acquired by or for the Civil Air Patrol with appropriated funds (or with funds of the Civil Air Patrol, but reimbursed from appropriated funds)—
(1) to provide assistance requested by State or local governmental authorities to perform disaster relief missions and activities, other emergency missions and activities, and nonemergency missions and activities; and
(2) to fulfill its other purposes set forth in section 40302 of title 36.

[BigMojo]

Group told you that???

We've used VHF Handhelds in Simplex for things like that.

[lordmonar]

AUX ON/AUX OFF has nothing to do with using OUR ASSIGNED FREQUENCIES for our offical buisiness.

AUX ON/AUX OFF only applies to liability and workman's comp issues.

So....unless there is prioity traffic on the particular frequency....go for it.

[SJFedor]

Heck yah. I'm even planning to employ a mobile repeater for an airshow we're supporting later this year. Less because we need it, more because we need to exercise the ability to use it.

[DNall]

The freqs assigned to us are not just for AF assigned SaR/DR missions. Don't forget that one of our missions has always been as a backup radio support network, originally in the event of a nuclear strike, expanded to disaster situations & DoD support. Use of radios on any CAP business is maintaining & practicing that network functionality. That's why we do routine nets. I couldn't comment on the use of our radios for corporate missions that would otherwise be a problem for Posse Comitatus. We get away with using the planes purchased on the AF budget.

[JohnKachenmeister]

I just did an airshow as OIC, and I used the VHF radios a lot.  I coordinated the use through the Wing net control station, (I used the repeater, since I had vanloads of cadets coming from out of town) and at NO TIME did anybody say "Don't do that."

[Psicorp]

Okay, that's just funny.  That kind of restriction would mean lots of radios (VHF and HF) that can't be used for substantial amounts of time.  Pure silliness.   

Weekly / daily VHF / HF nets, airshows, checking on someone who's running late to a meeting, parking cars at a non-CAP function for fund-raising purposes, local member funded practice missions, heck...we've even required that if a pilot is taking a CAP aircraft up just to fly around and practice that someone on the ground monitors the primary VHF frequency.  All of these are non-AF missions and all are appropriate uses of our radio assets.

[Eclipse]

Not to mention encampments, which would come to a screaming halt in many cases without that voice in your ear and quick information.

[EShep]

Seems that your CC should read the regulations. CAP VHF frequencies are authorized at any time, other than a declared radio silence, for any CAP business. That would include air shows, public service events at which CAP is participating, communications training, etc. We have assisted local authorities for several years at the Boston Marathon, using VHF and UHF communications assets, as directed by our state emergency management agency.

EShep