boonie hats

[Dragoon]

But there are other tools we choose NOT to let them use.  For example, frilly pink parasols.  Now THAT's a shade producer, much better than a wimpy boonie hat.   

While it's silly to discount safety, it's also silly to discount uniformity.  Or cost.  Or added red tape.  You really have to weigh all the variables.  And an argument over whether the boonie's "bang" is worth the "buck" is a good one to have, whatever the outcome.

And beware of too much "pre emptive" safety.  If no one's getting hurt, you really, really need to be careful about instituting "just in case" safety measures.  Sometimes they help, but often then just hinder the mission for no good reason.

Another good example - about 10 years ago, someone wanted to mandate safety goggles be worn at all times in the woods to avoid getting branches in your eyes.

Sounded good.  But it had a down side.  There's the cost.  And the potential for obstructing vision. 

So........we asked the question - how many times has someone filed an accident report with NHQ about a stick in the eye?

(crickets chirping)

The idea died a well deserved death.


Another idea was allowing a lime green flight suit in the fall, as the visibility was higher than the colors we have now.  It IS safer - but how many pilots have we lost because we couldn't pick out their flight suit through the trees?


(crickets chirping)

Safety is good.  But safety for safety's sake is a self licking ice cream cone that can paralyze an organization.

[notaNCO forever]

Ever hear of sunblock I find it tends to work and you should all have it in your gear allready.

[Dragoon]

And we got through the 50's with out seat belt, the 80's with out child seats and a whole host of other things we got away with before.

We added each of those things because we had data about the benefits of using them.   Congress got to hear testimony on how many lives would be saved and injuries prevented.

Nobody has done squat like that for boonies as a safety item.  Sure cancer is is bad (I had a little cut off my shoulder a few years back).  But where's the evidence that adding 4 inches of brim over the back of your neck and ears for a day or two a month has any significant effect on the risk of cancer?


I predict the vast majority of CAP boonie-wearers won't wear a similar hat at the beach,  family picnics, or school field trips.  

[mikeylikey]

When NHQ comes out with a regulation that says "you can no longer roll your sleeves on your BDU's/BBDU's, I will accept the safety argument for Boonies.  Until then, please stop citing safety and skin cancer as a reason for boonies. 

[arajca]

A few years ago, the NEC approved booines as an emergency safety issue. The AF came in and told them it was not and that CAP was NOT authorized to wear the boonie hat with the AF uniforms.

[Dragoon]

When NHQ comes out with a regulation that says "you can no longer roll your sleeves on your BDU's/BBDU's, I will accept the safety argument for Boonies.  Until then, please stop citing safety and skin cancer as a reason for boonies. 

Very good point.

In CAP "safety" as it pertains to uniforms is often a codeword for either "comfort,"  "individual style," or "cheap."

Not that those things don't matter - but we need to weigh each against the costs to our mission and public image.

[Eclipse]

Safety:  Localized head / neck / ear skin cancer, sunburns and hair loss sky-rocket nationwide among CAP members over the course of several summers where due to extreme drought conditions these members had an abnormally high operations tempo in bright sunlight conditions.

NHQ safety officers are tasked with identifying the cause and a reasonable remediation.  After several months testing sunscreens, different hats, and other potential equipment, it is determined that the boonie-style hat is the most effective way to prevent sun injury and damage, and is therefore mandated for wear by >ALL< personnel, regardless of uniform worn, in any circumstance where the weather is forecast over a specific temperature, exposure index, and length of outdoor duty time.  Further, any members reporting for duty without the required gear will be prohibited from participating.


CAP: "We saw these floppies hats the SF guys wear in the movies and want to wear them ourselves, we need a good excuse, so we'll pretend they are safer in the sun, but we won't try and make them mandatory for everyone because then we know they will be denied, plus we don't want everyone to have them because then ours won't be as cool.  Also, we know if there are too many rules, then it'll be too hard to "accidentally" wear them to unit meetings, encampments, and other places they are prohibited. 

We'll continue to beat the safety drum, though, because it deflects the argument into an irrelevant area."

[wuzafuzz]

Sunscreen isn't the cure-all some are presenting it to be.  It's difficult to get into all the nooks and crannies on your ears, and it comes off if you work hard and sweat.  Uniformity has it's place, but I have permanent sun damage to my temples thanks to inflexible uniform rules when I was a cop.  (There isn't anyplace to store spare sunscreen when you are stuck on a foot post for 12 hours at a special event.)  We finally got wide brimmed trooper hats.  I hated the things but they did serve a purpose.

To think I am at increased risk for skin cancer to satisfy someone's need for uniformity really burns me, ha ha!  As far as uniformity goes, our buffet style uniform regs have already tossed that out the window. 

I agree boonie caps look a little goofy and tend to present a poser image.  However, I wear a floppy hat when I mow the lawn, go hiking, or spend any significant time in the sunlight...except during CAP activities.  Perhaps I'll drop the cash for BBDU's so I can wear a boonie when appropriate.

Sun worshippers can wear a patrol cap if they want.  Me?  Give me a wide-brimmed cap.  If anyone calls me a wanna-be I will correct them; I am a has-been!  ;-)

[RiverAux]

Of course, anyone that is very worried about skin cancer can find a welcome spot on mission base staff.  They're always interested in bringing more people on.

[Duke Dillio]

^They always need someone to make the coffee and answer the telephone...

[arajca]

Of course, anyone that is very worried about skin cancer can find a welcome spot on mission base staff.  They're always interested in bringing more people on.

So true, so true.

^They always need someone to make the coffee and answer the telephone...

This attitude is the primary reason why.

All the ground pounder and flyboys always forget that without us "REMF's", they aren't going out. Period. So all their training and skills are for naught.

[RiverAux]

^They always need someone to make the coffee and answer the telephone...

I wasn't being flip.  CAP does have a serious shortage of qualified mission base staff.  Heck, if California (one of our biggest wings) has trouble finding qualified ICs to take missions, just what do we expect elsewhere? 

[mikeylikey]

Don't we already have like 12 different threads realting to Boonie hats?  Can we PLEASE end this one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Duke Dillio]

^They always need someone to make the coffee and answer the telephone...

I wasn't being flip.  CAP does have a serious shortage of qualified mission base staff.  Heck, if California (one of our biggest wings) has trouble finding qualified ICs to take missions, just what do we expect elsewhere? 

I was trying to make a joke.  Sorry if it wasn't funny.

California has a problem with signing off qualified IC's.  There's a guy in my unit who has been waiting for a year to have the wing sign off his IC3.  He's been an IC with other agencies for years.  He's also been active in CAP ES for years.  There seems to be some sort of "good old boys" network going on or something.  I don't really know what the issue is.

BOT, I'm not buying the whole safety scenario.  I've been in CAP ES for about 15 years now and have never gotten a sunburn on my face or neck.  I attribute this to a healthy dose of the proper sunblock applied liberally in the burn areas.  I also don't expect the AF to allow us to ever wear the boonie hat with the BDU uniform.  JMO

[0]

^They always need someone to make the coffee and answer the telephone...

I wasn't being flip.  CAP does have a serious shortage of qualified mission base staff.  Heck, if California (one of our biggest wings) has trouble finding qualified ICs to take missions, just what do we expect elsewhere? 

I was trying to make a joke.  Sorry if it wasn't funny.

California has a problem with signing off qualified IC's.  There's a guy in my unit who has been waiting for a year to have the wing sign off his IC3.  He's been an IC with other agencies for years.  He's also been active in CAP ES for years.  There seems to be some sort of "good old boys" network going on or something.  I don't really know what the issue is.

That's find he's been an IC with other agencies but does he meet the CAP requirements?

[Duke Dillio]

Yup, he's been the IC for at least 10 missions that I know of working with a fully qualified IC as his mentor.  He's an ex-police chief of some sort I think.  He caused a bit of a stir down at wing which probably is the reason he hasn't been "blessed" yet.

[Stonewall]

Don't we already have like 12 different threads realting to Boonie hats?  Can we PLEASE end this one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Here's one from last year.  A good 4 pager.

[1sgtarcherCT062]

is it possible they just dont want us wearing them because not everyone will buy them? therefore not everyone will be uniform, making any flight/squadron look sloppy.

[Eclipse]

is it possible they just dont want us wearing them because not everyone will buy them? therefore not everyone will be uniform, making any flight/squadron look sloppy.

No.

[DC]

is it possible they just dont want us wearing them because not everyone will buy them? therefore not everyone will be uniform, making any flight/squadron look sloppy.

It would be an optional item for field wear, so the only group that would need to be uniform would be individual ground teams, so I really don't think that would be an issue.

The Air Force has said before that they don't think we need the boonie because it is a 'combat' uniform item. CAP is a non-combatant organization, so we have no need for it.