How soon is too soon to change squadrons?

[star1151]

Yeah, yeah, I know, a week ago I was talking about how nice the squadron I chose was.  Problem is, it's starting to seem like they don't need me AT ALL - probably because they've had several other people way more qualified than me just join.  Maybe most people wouldn't mind that, but when I do something, I never do it halfway, and I hate the idea of sitting around waiting for everyone else to get first shot at something.

So...how soon is too soon to start looking around for a squadron that can actually use me?  Will it look bad for me?

[IceNine]

The first step is to talk with your current unit commander.  Express your concerns, when you have their response then you can take the next step.

[Kerrbie]

That's exactly what you should do. However you should go up your chain of command instead of going straight to the unit commander. If you have a squadron chaplain then ask your flight sergeant to get you some time during a meeting to talk to him/her. They might not be able to do anything about your problem but he/she can give you some advice and help you with what you want to do.

No I can say this from experience. I didn't do that at all. The squadron I started at, when i joined didn't even have a charter number. Lots of people new about it, or didn't know about it., and the people who did know about it made fun of it for being disorganized and not knowing what they were doing. However they are trying their best with the resources they have. Now I felt as if I wasn't needed and that I could do so much more. So I looked into a new squadron and went to one of their meetings. A few of them infact. Now I had a very long talk with our Squadron Commander and she was very upset etc...there was also the fact that the squadron's have a bad history with each other. But that's beside the point. I didn't handle the situation like I should have and it caused problems. So go up your chain and talk to your superiors and maybe they can help you.

After that, you can then make up your min. But talk to them first.

[star1151]

If you have a squadron chaplain then ask your flight sergeant to get you some time during a meeting to talk to him/her. 

We have a few chaplains, from what I've heard, but I don't know any of them.  And what's a flight sergeant?  Sorry, just really new at this.

[RiverAux]

Talk to whoever they told you was your immediate supervisor.  I'm assuming you're a cadet and if so, the other new cadets aren't going to be "more qualified" than you are. 

[star1151]

Talk to whoever they told you was your immediate supervisor.  I'm assuming you're a cadet and if so, the other new cadets aren't going to be "more qualified" than you are. 

No, I'm not a cadet and was never told who my immediate supervisor is.

[MajorSER]

Perhaps if you told us what Wing you are in, we could give you some Chaplains to talk to.

[ZigZag911]

Star1151, clearly you are new, let me ask some questions:

1) have you completed Level 1 and  CPPT
2) have you done any other introductory CAP training (in emergency services, communications, and so forth)


If the answer to either of these is 'no', then that suggests where you ought to begin....speak to your unit's Professional Development Officer or Deputy Commander for Seniors about this.

If you have done this initial training, then the question is what you hope to contribute to CAP, and what you hope to get from your membership.

You mentioned that some other new members have more qualifications than you do (it would help knowing in what CAP area or staff job).....this may be an opportunity for you to work with someone well-experienced in the area you find most interesting, learn a lot from this person, and eventually develop expertise yourself.

Or you could watch, wait and learn a bit more about how CAP operates, find where the 'gap' is in your squadron (do they need help with public affairs, safety, aerospace, education, finance?) and help identify the slot in which you could help most yourself.

If the squadron leadership seems unsure where to assign you -- and that sounds like the crux of the problem, you haven't suggested any personality conflicts -- then be patient and work with them -- believe me, there isn't a squadron commander in CAP that doesn't want to get all the help possible from squadron officers!

[Camas]

Zigzag911 gives good advice but I'll have to tell ya; I've seen situations where people are often ignored and, of course, they don't come back.  I can remember visiting a unit some years in CAWG with a very close friend from high school who is a member of that unit and they wouldn't give me the time of day.  I don't live in CA but I certainly wouldn't consider joining that unit if I did.  And, more recently here in ORWG an entire family transfered squadrons for probably the same reason.  The lesson here is to get these new people involved as soon as possible and make them understand there is no "old boys" network - or shouldn't be!

[ZigZag911]

I've seen that too, but I think star 1151 has thus far been sufficiently happy with the squadron that it is worth taking a little time to talk to the leadership about the situation....if that proves unproductive or fails to garner a response then yes, find a new home while still interested!

[davedove]

The lesson here is to get these new people involved as soon as possible

Unfortunately, it doesn't happen that way very often.  A new member usually has to self motivate and seek out the opportunities.  Let the officers know you're there and wanting to help.  Especially seek out the Professional Development Officer to get your initial training, as you can't really do anything else until that's done.

After that, if you're a pilot, talk to the other pilots.  If you're interested in ES, find the ES Officer.  If you're into radios, find the Comm Officer.

The other officers should be helping you out, but if they don't, help yourself.  This is of course one of CAP's biggest problems, getting new members involved.

[star1151]

Star1151, clearly you are new, let me ask some questions:

1) have you completed Level 1 and  CPPT
2) have you done any other introductory CAP training (in emergency services, communications, and so forth)

In a hurry to get to work, so I'm not even to go try to work around everything I want to quote.

Yes, I've completed all of Level 1.  Quickly, actually.  Waiting on emergency services training. 

I guess what's really disappointing is that they had been very excited to have me join.  This particular unit never really had a lot of pilots (and even fewer CFI's) and they were really pressuring me to join because of that.  And that wasn't an issue really.  I like being part of a group where I'm needed.  A few weeks after I joined though, it's like every former military pilot in the area decided to up and join as well, and there's no longer a need for me.  My promotion paperwork is getting sent in, so maybe they haven't forgotten about me completely, but training is being mentioned less and less frequently now.

Yeah, that makes me sound like I'm an arrogant pilot, but that couldn't be farther from the truth!  And no, other than flying, I don't know what I'd want to do.  Aviation is my profession as well (not piloting) so I really don't have any other useable skills.

[davedove]

And no, other than flying, I don't know what I'd want to do.  Aviation is my profession as well (not piloting) so I really don't have any other useable skills.

Then use this as an opportunity to learn something new.  Check out CAPR 20-1 for the different position descriptions and the various Specialty Track Study Guides.  If you want to advance in the program, you will need to fill a staff position, and you can still fly as well.

[Sgt. Savage]

I was told when I first joined that no one was going to hand me anything. If I wanted training, I had to grab it, and never depend on any other member to make sure I was getting taken care of.

This isn't the way it should be done but, it seems to be the way it is. When I'm National Commander, I'll change that. Until then, be aggressive about what you need and push on. Talk to your leaders and explain your concerns. If it doesn't pan out, look at another squadron. Just don't give up.

[Flying Pig]

This isnt like a civilian or military organization where they hire you and organize your training. You pretty much have to go at it yourself.  Sgt. Savage said it.  If you want the training, go for it.  Look up the regs, talk to other members, come here and ask.  CAP is an awsome organization, you just have to find your nitch and figure out how it works.

I would suggest sticking around your unit for a while until you figure this thing out.  That way when/if you decide to transfer, youll know what to look for in a new squadron.

[IceNine]

OK, so we've established that your a Senior member correct?

If the answer is yes, talk to your supervisor.  When in doubt look for someone who call's themself the Professional Development Officer (most likely the person who did your Level 1/CPPT Training), Deputy Commander of Seniors, OR your Squadron Commander. 

After you have spoken with them you should see some results at least helping point you in the right direction.

Specific questions you need to ask of your supervisor are.

What are the areas of the unit that need additional staff?
What is the next step in my training?
And if you don't know, Who am I going to be working with/for?

After you have these answers then, you need to work with this person to decide what area may be your best fit.  So even though you may be a pilot or involved in the aviation industry you may not be used in that area if there are people who are more qualified to fulfil these duties.  this does not mean however that you cannot participate in activities involved with these areas. 

All of the training you need to fulfil a duty in the unit is available through several different media's.  Do some footwork and don't expect to be utilized as a staff officer immediately.  Your first job may be as a unit version of TAC officer where your only job is to ensure that there are 2 seniors watching over the cadets as they work on their training.  Don't be discourged when you don't get to work in the area that you want to be in.  There may be a greater need in other areas.

[star1151]

Then use this as an opportunity to learn something new.  Check out CAPR 20-1 for the different position descriptions and the various Specialty Track Study Guides.

Did that.  Because I'm an A&P, they drew me in with maintenance officer, which I would have loved, but it looks like that's been turned over to someone else (after telling me they wanted me for it!).  Honestly, nothing else jumps out at me.  I kind of feel like they got me in to make some kind of membership quota, now they are looking for the least qualified person to do boring admin stuff.  And yes, even though that may be needed, I don't really want to spend my free time doing it...even if it means I have to find some other kind of volunteer work to do.

Don't know.  Will have to do some more thinking about this. 

[ZigZag911]

You're a CFI and an A & P and the squadron can't find something appropriate and useful for you to do??

What Wing are you in?

[IceNine]

Regardless of professional education, there is still a learning curve in this organization.  If you want to work in Aircraft Maintenance become intimately familiar with CAP Flight programs.  You need to read the regulations (60 series) and learn the ropes of our organization. 

Until then you are here to be used as a pawn however your unit commander see's fit.  If you can't muster up the strength to look past your personal agenda and do what is best for the unit then you need to do some sole searching and see if volunteering as a principle is right for you.  Because the quote listed below from one of your previous posts is NOT a volunteer attitude rather a personal agenda.

And yes, even though that may be needed, I don't really want to spend my free time doing it...even if it means I have to find some other kind of volunteer work to do.

Tags - MIKE

[Major Carrales]

I have often been quoted as saying...

"I am a member of every squadron, and every CAP Officer and cadet are members of my unit."

I really live by this, thus were can and should visit other units to see how things go their.  After all, at SARs and CADET ACTIVITIES (you name it) you will be working with other unit's members to accomplish the mission.  That being said, we are called upon to offer our best and foster development in a unit that us our HOME.

My advice is to wait...find a program that I can offer my services to lead.  Then make a place for myself with the support of fellow CAP Officers.  If you think there is "no place for you," then you must make one or serve as an assistant or trainee.

I think time will show you where you can go. 

[capchiro]

It sounds like your concerns are serious to you.  If so, almost all commanders I know have an "open door" policy and I would advise you to approach the commander and ask to speak to him about your concerns.  Perhaps with the addition of new pilots to the squadron you have been overlooked, accidentally or inadvertently.   If the new pilots are military, they can be sort of pushy due to their competitiveness.  I am sure that there is a place for you and a job.  Perhaps you will be asked to do a job that is not exactly what you want, but, a lot of people drop out their first year, so stuff opens up all the time.  As I mentioned in another post, one must learn patience to be in CAP.  This organization is bigger than any one person and sometimes we have to do things for the good of the organization instead of what we would like to do.  Stick with it and it will work out trust me.  Benn there done it..

[floridacyclist]

You seem to have found one of CAP's Achilles heels. We're pretty good at recrutiing; as someone said, our program practically sells itself. We just happen to suck at mentoring and in the long run, retention. Members who have been in for a while remember how hard of a time they had figuring out the ropes and figure that if it was good enough for them, it'll work for newbies too.

If you stick around, remember these days and make up your mind that the new folks won't have to go through what you did; work on making CAP more accessible to those who perhaps haven't been there before. In the long run, it will be one of the more rewarding things you might have done in your life.

On the flip side, if you joined for only one reason (like flying) you will probably be very disillusioned to find out how much more it takes. yes, it does take Boring Admin Stuff to make a squadron function and many squadron commanders have very little use for a member who's not willing to pull their own weight on teh less glamorous jobs.

[star1151]

Because the quote listed below from one of your previous posts is NOT a volunteer attitude rather a personal agenda.

Yes, and I'll be the first to admit that the main reason I want to volunteer is to get out of the house.  If that makes me a bad and selfish person, so be it...

But honestly, after being turned down by volunteer organization by volunteer organization, I'm a little cynical on the whole volunteer thing.

[star1151]

On the flip side, if you joined for only one reason (like flying) you will probably be very disillusioned to find out how much more it takes.

Definitely not.  I actually assumed I wouldn't be flying for quite a while and was kind of shocked when they jumped on me because they needed pilots/CFI's and harassed me into joining and talked about getting me qualified immediately.  Maybe it's just the back and forth that's a little disillusioning.

Or maybe it's the fact my car was broken into at the airport and I'm off on a business trip for another four days and I am taking this whole CAP thing WAY too seriously because of the stress.  And I could be jumping to conclusions, too.

[Camas]

now they are looking for the least qualified person to do boring admin stuff.  And yes, even though that may be needed, I don't really want to spend my free time doing it.

Don't knock the "boring" stuff.  Trust me, there are alot of squadrons who would just kill to get people to do the "boring" stuff.  We're always looking for personnel, administration, professional development and logistics officers to name just a few positions.  I do professional development and personnel and I'm having a ball!

[RiverAux]

Star, since you're a senior member I wouldn't hesitate telling you to go talk to the commanding officer.  Tell him your concerns and what you want to do and see what his reply is.  If he isn't all for getting you trained up, you should definetely go visit some other nearby squadrons.  Everybody can use CFIs and if your current squadron isn't interested, someone else will be without a doubt.