Bravo Zulu, and others

[RogueLeader]

What does Bravo Zulu mean, and where did it come from?
Same for YMMV.


Also for any other unknown terms

[DKruse]

Not sure about Bravo Zulu.

YMMV: Your Mileage May Vary

[MIKE]

What does Bravo Zulu mean, and where did it come from?

Bravo Zulu

Same for YMMV.

Your Mileage May Vary

[SarDragon]

Bravo Zulu is Navy-ese for well done. Those are the two pennants hoisted to send that message. More here, which, as it turns out, is a direct copy of the link above.

[Fifinella]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bravo_Zulu

There's this great tool on the internet called "Google"...

[SarDragon]

Wow! Three replies in 33 seconds.

[RogueLeader]

There's this great tool on the internet called "Google"...

Whats the internet ?  

[Major Carrales]

I attended a College Board AP Education Workshop (30 hours credit) last week that said that the use of such devices destroyed the educational benefit of forums and blogs.

As a point of order, some blokes that post here and at other places make a big issue on calling Service Dress "Class A." They make a repeated point that we should use only USAF style jargon.  Strange that this "Bravo Zulu" (now obviously identified as a Naval practice) business has not turned out the same incredulous fellows.  

[Al Sayre]

Yeah, but us Squids like to speak in our own language...

[Eclipse]

There's this great tool on the internet called "Google"...

Whats the internet ?  

A joint creation of Al Gore and America Online.

[pixelwonk]

As a point of order, some blokes that post here and at other places make a big issue on calling Service Dress "Class A." They make a repeated point that we should use only USAF style jargon.  Strange that this "Bravo Zulu" (now obviously identified as a Naval practive) business has not turned out the same incredulous fellows.   

"AIR POWER!"   *snicker*

[jimmydeanno]

SPACE POWER....A...E...F!

[SARMedTech]

While Bravo Zulu may come from Sea Service useage, theres a little more to it than that. Bravo Zulu may indeed have come from the world of signal flags. However, it was also then adopted into transferring code by spoken word and various English speaking  Sea Services "transliterated" it differently. For example, the American Navy, when speaking BZ, used the terms "Baker Zebra." Heres where it gets interesting. Attempts at a phoentic alphabet has been around for as long as messages have been transmitted by voice. Here's where we come in: in approximately 1949, the International Civil Aviation Organization codified the IPA or International Phoentic Alphabet in the version that it is used today and they decided that B would be Bravo and Z would be Zulu. I havent been able to track down alot of specifics just yet accept that I am proud to have been forced to memorize the IPA in EMS school and can tell you what I was taught by my VietNam veteran Paramedic instructor. Bravo now has come to mean that a message is about to be transmitted. the IPA word Foxtrot has also come into fairly regularly accepted useage as a distress signal. So to transmit "Bravo Foxtrot" is letting the receiver of said message that you are sending a message and that you are in distress or trouble. For example: "We are Bravo Foxtrot, repeat, Bravo Foxtrot" would let someone know you were in serious trouble and needed help  ASAP. These spoke messages did in fact come from a combination of "flagsmanship" and the spoken phonetic alphabet set in stone as mentioned  some time around 1949 by the International Civil Aviation Organization. Some information that I have been able to uncover would also seem to indicated that Bravo Foxtrot as a distress signal predates Mayday. Can anyone confirm or refute this.

[SARMedTech]

I just located in a box of books for a flea market that i thought I still had a little spiral pocket guide for pilots on ICOS (International Code of Signals).  Here are some interesting tidbits

Mayday=We are in distress (generally followed by nature of distress)
Bravo Foxtrot= We have ditched and are in the following position (Latitude and Longitude)

Latitude: Code letter L (Lima) followed by a four-figure group; (2 figures for Degrees, 2 figures for Minutes) and either - N (November) for Latitude North, or (Sierra) for Latitude South.

Longitude: Code letter G (Golf) followed by a five-figure group; (3 figures for Degrees, 2 figures for Minutes) and either - E (Echo) for Longitude East, or W (Whiskey) for Longitude West.

CB     Charlie Bravo     I require immediate assistance
CB6    Charlie Bravo Soxisix    I require immediate assistance. I am on fire
DX     Delta X-ray    I am sinking
HW    Hotel Whiskey    I have collided with surface craft


Here are some answers if you pick up a mayday or bravo foxtrot:
CP     Charlie Papa     I am proceeding to your assistance
ED    Echo Delta      Your distress signals are understood
EL    Echo Lima       Repeat the distress position

Here is how the ICOS relays numbers:

   Pronounced as
0    NADAZERO    NAH-DAH-ZAY-ROH
1    UNAONE    OO-NAH-WUN
2    BISSOTWO    BEES-SOH-TOO
3    TERRATHREE    TAY-RAM-TREE
4    KARTEFOUR    KAR-TAY-FOWER
5    PANTAFIVE    PAN-TAM-FIVE
6    SOXISIX    SOK-SEE-SIX
7    SE1lESSEVEN    SAY-TAY-SEVEN
8    OKTOEIGHT    OK-TOH-AIT
9    NOVENINE    NO-VAY-NINER
Decimal Point    DECIMAL    DAY-SEE-MAL
Full Stop    STOP    STOP

The little pocket guide I have also recommends ending all transmission of distress with the questions "How Copy?" and the name/callsign of who it is that you are transmitting to. The guide also says that often these transmissions would be made by the right hand seat.

If your interested in this, I tracked down a website which reproduces almost ver batim the above information plus some. This is also used for marine vessels. As a non-pilot, non-sailor, I cannot attest to what extent these are used or to what degree you could count on them being understood. Here is the website:

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/static/archive/ra/publication/ra_info/ra292.htm

[Murph]

Al Gore did not invent the internet - he invented Global Warming!

Jeez, get your facts straight.

[capchiro]

Yaah, but didn't one lead to the other?  I mean with millions of butts sitting around on the internet,  didn't anyone realize there would unusual accumulations of gas around the world? hehe..   

[ColonelJack]

I thought Al Gore was only indirectly responsible for global warming ... thanks to all the heat generated by the porn that's all over the Internet that he did invent.

Jack

[jimmydeanno]

All I have to say is that I'm glad he wasn't elected President because we'd be freezing our butts off 

[SARMedTech]

And he wouldnt be friendly to CAP because a/c burn too much fuel...except of his private jet which apparently runs on a little of this, a little of that, alot of dreams....at least its not McCain or we will all be punching out.

[PhotogPilot]

Yaah, but didn't one lead to the other?  I mean with millions of butts sitting around on the internet,  didn't anyone realize there would unusual accumulations of gas around the world? hehe..   

I thought Al Gore was only indirectly responsible for global warming ... thanks to all the heat generated by the porn that's all over the Internet that he did invent.

Jack

Why are we discussing this? Don't you guys know, the discussion is OVER! Al sez so. 

Tags - MIKE

[Al Sayre]

Don't go throwing me under the bus...

[SARMedTech]

Don't go throwing me under the bus...

Who threw you under the bus, Captain?

[Al Sayre]

photogpilot "... Al sez so"  I didn't say nothing!

[jimmydeanno]

I didn't say nothing!

So you said something?

[RogueLeader]

Maybe we can just turn Capt Wedley loose on them.

From another topic, but who is Capt. Wedley?

[MIKE]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSyaqVDnAUA

[RogueLeader]

ah I see. . .  CPPT issues anyone?

[Skyray]

I spent ten years in the Naval Service and never heard the term BRAVO ZULU.  Then, in 1995, after a nasty divorce from the CAP, I joined the Coast Guard Auxiliary and one of the pro words that I had to learn along with its meaning and derivation, was Bravo Zulu, which roughly corresponded to the old "Well Done" that I was accustomed to.  It is in every day use in the Coast Guard, but it was not something I was required to learn as a Midshipman in 1957-58.  I am curious as to whether it is a recent addition to the lexicon or simply a variation of culture between the Brown Shoe and Black Shoe Navy.  We Brown Shoes rarely communicated with flag hoists, although we were required to know them.

[SarDragon]

I heard it all the time WIWOAD (1969-1989), from all three segments - brown shoes, black shoes, and bubble heads. I think the most predominate use was by the black shoe officers, though.

[RogueLeader]

What's the dif between brown/black shoes?  Does Bubble heads mean pilots or divers?

[SarDragon]

Black shoes - surface Navy
Brown shoes - aviation Navy
Bubbleheads - submarine Navy

The shoe distinction has blurred over the years, since all chiefs and officers can wear brown shoes now, but the community distinctions remain strong.

[Al Sayre]

I spent ten years in the Naval Service and never heard the term BRAVO ZULU.  Then, in 1995, after a nasty divorce from the CAP, I joined the Coast Guard Auxiliary and one of the pro words that I had to learn along with its meaning and derivation, was Bravo Zulu, which roughly corresponded to the old "Well Done" that I was accustomed to.  It is in every day use in the Coast Guard, but it was not something I was required to learn as a Midshipman in 1957-58.  I am curious as to whether it is a recent addition to the lexicon or simply a variation of culture between the Brown Shoe and Black Shoe Navy.  We Brown Shoes rarely communicated with flag hoists, although we were required to know them.

I was an AD Squid (AT1) from 82-89.  The squadron received a daily news summary that included a list of BZ's for the the various USN contingents/personnel that did something notable, so it's not that new...

[SARMedTech]

Did anyone read the post I made about the International Code of Signals adopting Bravo Zulu,among others, for both flight and sea service use in 1949?  I thought that would have "dispelled the mystery" of how it found its way into cloud jockey parlance.

[SarDragon]

Something about horses and water?

[Skyray]

Al Sayre:

I was an AD Squid (AT1) from 82-89.  The squadron received a daily news summary that included a list of BZ's for the the various USN contingents/personnel that did something notable, so it's not that new...

Thanks, Al.  That answers my question, it's a time domain thing.  By 1982 I was winding up a career as an airline pilot.  Sounds like the brass needed something to replace the time worn "Well Done" and used the flag hoist.  It is ubictious in the Coast Guard today.

[Al Sayre]

Anytime,  I am often considered as posessing a wealth of otherwise useless information...

[Skyray]

Anytime,  I am often considered as posessing a wealth of otherwise useless information...

We have a lot in common in addition to roots in Mississippi.  My wife keeps threatening to sign me up for "Jeopardy."  Where are you from in Mississippi--I consider T.J Fortune one of my early mentors in CAP.

[Al Sayre]

I'm originally from Florida, but I live in Vicksburg and work in Port Gibson.

[Skyray]

I'm originally from Florida, but I live in Vicksburg and work in Port Gibson.

Told you we had a lot in common.  I'm originally from Cleveland, MS, but I live in Palmetto Bay, Florida and work (such as it is) on Causeway Island (Miami Beach).  My daughter went to SMU and we would stop at Vicksburg on the trips back and forth.  I am of an age where I get into the Park free and I never could pass up a bargain.

[Al Sayre]

Shoot me a pm next time you are coming up this way, I'll buy the 1st round.

[Skyray]

Roger, Wilco, Over and Out.

[wrpawson]

I spent 7 years in the Navy, leaving at the end of 1981. "BZ" was a part of the Navy lexicon then -- and I assume it still is now. It is not surprising that the Coast Guard uses it, too, as they use many of the same resources the Navy does.

BZ does not come from the International Code of Signals (at least it was not part of it back when I was in the Navy). The ICS is a book of pennant and Morse signals that ships of any country can use to communicate with other ships even when you do not speak the same language -- but it is for merchant ships (and the Navy often has to deal with them, so we learned how to use the code, as well -- but we did not use this code to communicate Navy ship to Navy ship).

BZ comes from another code book of signals for use by Navy (and allied) ships to communicate with each other. However, this code book is a classified document. So while I could tell you more I'd then have to kill you all -- and then what would be the point of being a forum of one?

OK -- enough levity. Actually, while the book is classified, I can't reveal anything that would compromise security because the codes change every year or so (if I recall correctly). In fact, we were told NOT to memorize the codes (a) because we were required to ALWAYS use the book to decode messages in order to avoid things like collisions if we depended on what we THOUGHT the code meant, and (b) because the codes change every few years and if you decoded it properly by memory a year after it changed you could really screw up, and (c) so you would not compromise security if the commies took you as a POW and tortured you for information (however, we are also told that no sooner was the new code book distributed to NATO than the Soviets had a copy too, so they would be torturing us for the fun of it and not for the code book information, so don't be fooled when they shove the bamboo under the fingernails).

All this said, some codes never change. Like BZ has always meant "Well Done." When I was in Naval OCS the instructor asked who knew what it meant. Of course us former whitehats all raised our hands and one guy gave the correct answer. For which he was reamed a new you know what for having memorized a code -- much to the amusement of the rest of the class.

When we were being tested on use of the code book -- by means of a set of little metal signal flags "hoisted" on a small magnetic flagpole -- I still recall that the first signal decoded to "concentrate dummy".
The last code was "Rendezvous at the datum" which means "go to the last place a submarine was known to be" -- but the Datum was also the name of a watering hole on the base. A place more fun to go than the last known location of a sub.

Did any of this help answer the question?

Bill Pawson

[RiverAux]

Sorry, I'll go with the Navy's official version which was cited earlier.  http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq101-2.htm

"Bravo Zulu"
This is a naval signal, conveyed by flaghoist or voice radio, meaning "well done"; it has also passed into the spoken and written vocabulary. It can be combined with the "negative" signal, spoken or written NEGAT, to say "NEGAT Bravo Zulu," or "not well done."

There are some "myths and legends" attached to this signal. The one most frequently heard has Admiral Halsey sending it to ships of Task Force 38 during World War II. He could not have done this, since the signal did not exist at that time.

"Bravo Zulu" actually comes from the Allied Naval Signal Book (ACP 175 series), an international naval signal code adopted after the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) was created in 1949. Until then, each navy had used its own signal code and operational manuals. World War II experience had shown that it was difficult, or even impossible, for ships of different navies to operate together unless they could readily communicate, and ACP 175 was designed to remedy this.

In the U.S. Navy signal code, used before ACP 175, "well done" was signaled as TVG, or "Tare Victor George" in the U.S. phonetic alphabet of that time. ACP 175 was organized in the general manner of other signal books, that is, starting with 1-flag signals, then 2-flag and so on. The 2-flag signals were organized by general subject, starting with AA, AB, AC, ... AZ, BA, BB, BC, ... BZ, and so on. The B- signals were called "Administrative" signals, and dealt with miscellaneous matters of administration and housekeeping. The last signal on the "Administrative" page was BZ, standing for "well done."

At that time BZ was not rendered as "Bravo Zulu," but in each navy's particular phonetic alphabet. In the U.S. Navy, BZ was spoken as "Baker Zebra." In the meanwhile, the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) had adopted English as the international air traffic control language. They developed a phonetic alphabet for international aviation use, designed to be as "pronounceable" as possible by flyers and traffic controllers speaking many different languages. This was the "Alfa, Bravo, Charlie, Delta..." alphabet used today. The Navy adopted this ICAO alphabet in March 1956. It was then that "Baker Zebra" finally became "Bravo Zulu."

[wrpawson]

What an odd reply. "Sorry"? For what?

Your "official Navy version" only substantiates what I wrote -- the code is NOT from the ICS, as someone else suggested , but from the Navy signal book used by NATO. How and when it originated or whose "idea" it was was not part of my discussion, which included some (IMHO) funny sea stories thrown in from my personal experience. So what are you "Sorry" about, since your offering only adds to mine rather than contradicting it? Or perhaps mine adds to the citation you point to as having been referenced earlier (must be in another thread as i don't find it in the current one). But I think starting your reply with "Sorry" was a bit off base.

[RiverAux]

Look at the third post in this very thread...

[wrpawson]

Thank you for revealing the location of the link. I had to look hard to realize there was a link in the third posting. But finally deduced that I should click on the words "Bravo Zulu". I'm still learning how to use this forum system.

However, the official article still doesn't contradict what I wrote -- but supplements it -- or perhaps better said, I supplement the article. And BZ still is from the NATO code book not the ICS code book.

The use of "Bravo Zulu" in pronouncing BZ comes from the ICAO phonetic alphabet, not the ICS code book, although the signals in the ICS are pronounced in accordance with the ICAO alphabet. But that is a different issue than where the signal itself came from.

And my sea stories about learning how to use the code book are still amusing (at least I think so).

So, what is at issue here? I think nothing is -- we all seem to be in agreement about the source of BZ -- except a reply post curiously begun with the word "Sorry" that seemed to be a non sequitur. And I believe we are done discussing that.

Incidentally, in hopes of keeping terminology correct, "BZ" is a FLAG signal, not a pennant signal. It may be a fine distinction, but it is an important one when sending code -- pennants are shaped like elongated triangles, whereas signal flags are rectangular shaped. Pennants represent numbers (read as pennant 1, pennant 2, pennant 3, etc) and "repeats" of the flag or pennant immediately above it (read as 1st sub, 2nd sub, 3rd sub, 4th sub) and a number of other specialty signals (such as "divine worship" using the church pennant), whereas signal flags represent letters of the alphabet and numbers, pronounced using the international phonetic alphabet. Somewhere around the house I still have a deck of cards with all the flags and pennants that I got in the Navy for use to practice learning them.

[RiverAux]

I meant "sorry, but I'll take the Navy's official word on the subject" rather than that of someone going all secret squirrel about it."  Not saying that you're wrong, just that there is no need to start referring to "classified" information when the story is already out there.

[wrpawson]

Referring to the classified nature of the code was part of the gratuitous  levity. It was part of the set up for what followed.

In fact, the code book IS a classified document, and we were ordered not to memorize the codes. But of course, the ones that never change, like BZ, get memorized anyway. Which puts us all in violation for compromising security -- which is why the instructor had such fun with the fellow who answered his question about what BZ meant.

Applying common sense, it is an "open secret" -- and such a low level "housekeeping" signal that it doesn't really matter that we all know it and use it so freely -- which is why we have not all been court martialed for memorizing it.