NY "Civil Air Patrol Board" created

[RiverAux]

An article in the Utica newspaper alerted me to this recent legislation that passed in NY:

                              2007-2008 Regular Sessions

                                   I N  S E N A T E

                                   February 12, 2007
                                      ___________

       Introduced  by  Sens.  SEWARD,  DeFRANCISCO,  FUSCHILLO, LARKIN, TRUNZO,
         VOLKER -- read twice and ordered  printed,  and  when  printed  to  be
         committed to the Committee on Finance

       AN ACT in relation to creating a state civil air patrol board

         THE  PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK, REPRESENTED IN SENATE AND ASSEM-
       BLY, DO ENACT AS FOLLOWS:

    1    Section 1. Short title. This act shall be known and may be  cited  and
    2  referred to as the "New York state civil air patrol act".
    3    S  2.  Declaration of purposes and findings. The legislature finds and
    4  declares that by act of the eightieth  congress  (Public  Law  557)  the
    5  civil  air patrol was designated as the civilian auxiliary of the United
    6  States air force; that the secretary of said air force was authorized to
    7  direct the civil air patrol  to  perform  certain  non-combatant  flying
    8  missions  in  the  interest  of national defense and the public welfare;
    9  that civil air patrol volunteers fly approximately seventy-eight percent
   10  of the total hours and continental limits of the United States (and  all
   11  search  and  rescue missions in the state of New York); that in addition
   12  to its search and rescue operations, ground observer corps missions, and
   13  radar flight tests, the civil air patrol engages in  missions  involving
   14  the  patrol  of  forests,  pipelines,  flooded  areas and other disaster
   15  areas, and in the transportation of critical parts  and  supplies;  that
   16  the  civil  air patrol is engaged in the pre-flight training of fourteen
   17  to eighteen year old boys and girls; that the New York wing of civil air
   18  patrol has at its disposal hundreds of trained  and  licensed  aeroplane
   19  pilots  and observers as well as hundreds of privately-owned and govern-
   20  ment "on loan" aircraft, as  well  as  communication  facilities,  power
   21  plants  and  mobile equipment, together with a trained staff of communi-
   22  cation personnel; that the services and equipment of the New  York  wing
   23  of  civil air patrol have been and are available for use by the state of
   24  New York in missions assisting civil defense and any  other  mission  in
   25  the interest of the public safety, health and general welfare and should

    1  be utilized to their maximum extent; that the utilization of the trained
    2  manpower  and  equipment  of civil air patrol will provide the people of
    3  the state of New York, at a nominal cost, with forest  fire  protection,
    4  disaster  relief  service,  guaranteed communications, air to ground and
    5  ground to air, and aircraft emergency assistance for   all  state  agen-
    6  cies; that the maximum use by the state of New York of the facilities of
    7  civil  air patrol will encourage its cadet training program; that action
    8  by the legislature to utilize the civil air patrol and its vast manpower
    9  and equipment is declared to be necessary.
   10    S 3. State civil air patrol board established. There is hereby created
   11  and established in the division of military and  naval  affairs  in  the
   12  executive  department  a  state agency to be known as the New York state
   13  civil air patrol board.
   14    S 4. Organization. 1. The state civil air patrol board  shall  consist
   15  of  six  ex-officio members and three members appointed by the governor.
   16  The ex-officio members shall be as follows: the adjutant general of  the
   17  state  of New York, as an additional duty of his or her office; and five
   18  members of the civil air patrol, New York wing, appointed by  the  adju-
   19  tant  general  of the state of New York and three other members shall be
   20  appointed by the governor of New York state.  The  chair  of  the  board
   21  shall be ex-officio the wing commander of the New York wing of civil air
   22  patrol.  The members of said board appointed by the governor shall serve
   23  for terms of two years from and after their appointment or  until  their
   24  successors are duly appointed and qualified. The governor shall fill all
   25  vacancies  occurring in the appointive members of said board. The gover-
   26  nor may, however, at his or her pleasure,  remove  any  member  of  said
   27  board appointed by him or her.
   28    2. The members of the board shall serve without compensation.
   29    3.  The  board  shall  employ such clerical, technical and supervisory
   30  assistants as it deems necessary to carry out the provisions of this act
   31  and to procure the most efficient use of the equipment and  services  of
   32  the civil air patrol.
   33    4. The board shall meet at such times as the chair may direct.  If the
   34  chair  is unable to discharge the duties of his or her office, the vice-
   35  chair shall discharge such duties. A majority  of  the  members  of  the
   36  board shall constitute a quorum.
   37    S  5.  Functions,  powers and duties of the board. The state civil air
   38  patrol board shall be authorized and empowered to:
   39    1. Make such reasonable rules and regulations as may be necessary  for
   40  the proper operation of the said agency.
   41    2.  Cooperate  with agencies established by or pursuant to laws of the
   42  United States and of the state of New York to promote the state  defense
   43  effort  and  to provide to any state agency communications, rescue work,
   44  mercy missions, aerial observation or  any  other  function  within  the
   45  scope and activity of the civil air patrol.
   46    3.  To  have all other powers which may be reasonably implied from the
   47  granting of express powers herein, together with such  other  powers  as
   48  may be incident to or necessary for the carrying out and the performance
   49  of the powers and duties herein given to said board.
   50    4. Report to the governor and to the legislature concerning its activ-
   51  ities at least once a year and whenever requested.
   52    S  6.  This act shall take effect immediately, except that if this act
   53  shall have become a law on or after April 1, 2007 this  act  shall  take
   54  effect  immediately  and  shall be deemed to have been in full force and
   55  effect on and after April 1, 2007.

Anyone from NY know anything about what prompted this?  Are they going to give you some money too?  According toeh 2005 CAP Annual Report, NY wasn't providing any money to CAP. 

[Major Carrales]

Texas used to have something similar...

From...
http://www.tsha.utexas.edu/handbook/online/articles/CC/mdc2.html

CIVIL AIR PATROL COMMISSION. The Civil Air Patrol Commission was established by the Sixty-second Texas Legislature in 1971 for the purpose of improving and promoting the Texas Civil Air Patrol, a voluntary civilian organization. The commission also promoted financing of the patrol and was active in aerospace education and training programs. Almost all of the state's air-oriented search-and-rescue operations were supplied by the Civil Air Patrol, and the commission helped in the deployment of the patrol's resources, manpower, and equipment for such emergencies. Working with the Texas Department of Public Safety,qv the commission was also involved in improving civil defense capabilities. The commission was composed of nine members appointed by the governor with concurrence of the Senate for six-year overlapping terms. Reports to the governor and the legislature were made by the commission. The commission was abolished after sunset review in 1981 (see TEXAS SUNSET ADVISORY COMMISSION).

The trick is to keep this sort of thing active...or it gets the chopping block.

[dwb]

Catches me by surprise, but I know CAP has been working hard with the state legislature to get funding again.  It doesn't surprise me, and some of the names on that bill are familiar to me as long-time supporters of CAP.

RiverAux... you live in Utica, NY?  That be my hometown.

[RiverAux]

Nope.  I have news alerts set up on google and yahoo news for CAP stories and that one came in.

[alamrcn]

Line 55 - is that your answer? 

[Mustang]

Wow...so your BDU nametapes now have to read "U.S. N.Y. Civil Air Patrol"...cool! 

[RiverAux]

Line 55 - is that your answer? 

Does this:

55  effect on and after April 1, 2007.

answer my question about whether NY will be funding CAP now?  No, actually it doesn't. 

29    3.  The  board  shall  employ such clerical, technical and supervisory
   30  assistants as it deems necessary to carry out the provisions of this act
   31  and to procure the most efficient use of the equipment and  services  of
   32  the civil air patrol.

gives the board authority to hire folks to aid the board, but doesn't say any money will be provided to do that.

[afgeo4]

Did I read "forest fires"??

[RiverAux]

yeah, whats the problem? 

[mprokosch11]

I live in Utica (Utica Composite Squadron) and I haven't heard a word about this.

[RiverAux]

could have just been a generic statement about possible missions or maybe ones that are in the works....

[dwb]

I live in Utica (Utica Composite Squadron) and I haven't heard a word about this.

See what happens when you don't read the O-D? 

The article ran in the Utica newspaper, but it's clearly a generic article that applies to all of New York State.  Probably just something they plucked off the wire to stick on the State News page.

Anyway, this can only be good news for the Wing.

[mprokosch11]

I live in Utica (Utica Composite Squadron) and I haven't heard a word about this.

See what happens when you don't read the O-D? 

The article ran in the Utica newspaper, but it's clearly a generic article that applies to all of New York State.  Probably just something they plucked off the wire to stick on the State News page.


Anyway, this can only be good news for the Wing.

I read the OD almost everyday, I don't know how I missed it.  By the way i'll take the Post Standard anyday over the OD.

[afgeo4]

yeah, whats the problem? 

What do you suggest we do with forest fires? Fan them with our props or feed our cadets to them to keep them controlled?

[RiverAux]

Uh, find them??? Texas Wing flies hundreds of hours every year finding forest & grass fires for the state.  Other wings have done this mission regularly over the years. 

Flying around looking for fires is still one of the more effective ways of finding fires in low population density areas. 

[RogueLeader]

Uh, find them??? Texas Wing flies hundreds of hours every year finding forest & grass fires for the state.  Other wings have done this mission regularly over the years. 

Flying around looking for fires is still one of the more effective ways of finding fires in low population density areas. 

Probably makes for faster response times as well, with GPS.

[Al Sayre]

I read the OD almost everyday, I don't know how I missed it.  By the way i'll take the Post Standard anyday over the OD.

OD = ? Oneida Dispatch?

[dwb]

Close... The Utica Observer-Dispatch.

http://www.uticaod.com

I used to be a paperboy for the O-D.

[Pylon]

I read the OD almost everyday, I don't know how I missed it.  By the way i'll take the Post Standard anyday over the OD.

Who wouldn't prefer the Post-Standard?  ;

[afgeo4]

Uh, find them??? Texas Wing flies hundreds of hours every year finding forest & grass fires for the state.  Other wings have done this mission regularly over the years. 

Flying around looking for fires is still one of the more effective ways of finding fires in low population density areas. 

Probably makes for faster response times as well, with GPS.

I believe that flying around looking for forest fires is the best way to use up government money for nothing. Well... perhaps flying around looking for crop circles is better. New York is much more densely populated than Texas which means that most fires are quickly reported and I think that flying randomly to look for anything is a waste of time and money. Even CD flights aren't random.

As far as response times... what response? We aren't trained or equipped to work around fires. Flying at low altitudes in smoke is inherently dangerous and would never be approved by NHQ.

Transporting firefighters? Well... where would you land them in a forest? Not to mention the fact that they're big guys with heavy gear, so you'd only be able to take up one.

Flying recon? You can't see fires that well from our altitudes because of the smoke. You have to get way up there to get a good angle safely (plus air assets already tasked to fight the fire are good platforms for recon).

Our aircraft cannot carry any water or chemicals for fire suppression.

Our members aren't trained to respond in forest fires and never will be. So again, what are we doing with forest fires?

I sincerely hope that's a newspaper misprint.

[isuhawkeye]

Aircraft have been used affectively, safely, and as a cost saving measure across the country for decades. 

Organised patrol patterns, at relatively high altitudes look for smoke plumes.  these plumes are then reported to a base.  CAP leaves, and then hot shots, smoke jumpers, or tankers are brought in to control the fire. 

CAP isn't fighting fire, nore are we flying low to see the flames.

[NYWG Historian]

George--shame on you, forgetting your unit history!   

NYWG Memorandum 47-2 summarizes the Wing's activities during World War II and includes a description of the Forest Patrol duties:

"The first official forest patrol by CAP in New York State was flown on 3 October 1943, when pilot Johnson Stewart and observer Phyllis K. Ingram inaugurated this vital State service.  Arrangements for the patrol with the Conservation Commission had been made by Major Leslie A. Bryan of Syracuse, based on an exhaustive study and report made by Captains E. R. Vadeboncoeur and R.V. Green of the same city.

The test plane was in continuous radio-phone communication with the fire tower observers along the routes, and as a result of this test, an enlarged patrol was formed, which cooperated effectively with the Conservation Commission and the Department of Forest Fire Control during the balance of the season."

Don't forget, during WWII, wood was a very precious commodity and I believe there were instances of saboteurs starting forest fires.  Even today, catching a fire early can save lives and property, nevermind the millions of dollars in firefighting costs. 

This goes back to the various threads on appropriate missions.  In the greater scheme of things, would I prefer to be doing really meaningful, adrenaline-pumping work? Absolutely.  But I was [darn] proud to be hauling water/collecting garbage and whatever else I could do for TWA 800; making sandbags for flooding in Queens; door to door assessments for the '98 Ice Storms; sorting donations at a warehouse after 9/11, etc. 

As a newly minted pilot and hopefully soon Mission Transport Pilot, I would kill for sorties like Forest Patrol that let me do really boring recon at altitude, building hours towards full fledged mission pilot.  Nothing glorious (unless we spot a fire!) but it helps people. 

After you cut through all the politics, BS, leadership challenges/vacuums, isn't that what it's all about?!

[RiverAux]

Aerial fire patrols certainly aren't required in more built up areas, but in very rural areas they can be needed.  Does NY still need them?  I don't know.  Heck, for all you or I know NY has a fleet of airplanes in the state forest service right now dedicated to this task.  It isn't uncommon for states to do that. 

[Pumbaa]

Why the debate?  Anything is good...  The more CAP can prove itself the more it can get.

ALway rememebr we can do it cheaper!  If NY has it's own fleet can you imagine how much per hour it costs to fly?  CAP can do it much cheaper.

NY CAP needs to get what it can...

Then they will come!

[BillB]

I've flown as a fire spotter and most of the arguements against it, don't (pardon the pun) hold water. Several years ago a wild fire started just south of the Gainesville Regional Airport. The city Fire Department asked CAP to assist spotting the fire hot spots. Actually it was done as a non-CAP flight. The FD gave me a radio on their frequency and I flew at 1000 ft AGL and reported the fires direction and where the hot spots were. At one popint I even warned one of the fire trucks that the fire was building behind them and they needed to move. The Control tower at the airport had a visual on me the entire time and warned incoming and outgoing aircraft to maintain runway heading to bypass the fire area.
Smoke from the fire blew to the east and never was above 500 feet. so there was no lack of visability, and was not think enough to hide the fire details on the ground. Since that time, the Florida Forest Service has based an aircraft at the airport, partly after being pushed into it by the city fire department.
Water bombers were not used, but they fly a specific direction in approaching and departing a woods fire, so off setting the spotter aircraft, causes no problems.

[IceNine]

I am of the school that we belong in any capacity that we can safely and effectively function under.  We have this great new home under the DHS why shouldn't we use it.  If we have to locate fires to keep the homeland safe thats our mission.  If we are tasked with looking for fuzzy pink unicorns to keep the homeland safe that too is our mission.  If we can do something we should.  Iowa put it best we are the low slow flying air force so lets use it.  We have to put a certain amount of hours on these planes anyway why not make it fun, instead of the 100 dollar hamburger

[Al Sayre]

Looking for wildfires in NY is not a waste of time.  When I was a Cadet. I lived in upstate New York, I still have relatives up there and I can assure you there are some mighty sparsly populated/densly forested areas once you get away from the larger cities. 

Just after my first solo, I was out in the practice area, which happened to be in the same area I was also a Volunteer Fireman, I spotted a small wildfire about 2 miles from the nearest  paved road.  I called back to the airport on unicom had them call the VFD and then relayed how to get the trucks in to the fire down some old logging roads.  Turned out to be some kids playing with matches had started it, and it probably would have burned a couple thousand acres if I hadn't been in the right place at the right time. 

California is densly populated too, but few would call patrolling for wildfires there a waste of time either.  YMMV...

[RiverAux]

We have this great new home under the DHS why shouldn't we use it. 

I must have missed our transfer from the Air Force.... 

[afgeo4]

We have this great new home under the DHS why shouldn't we use it. 

I must have missed our transfer from the Air Force.... 

We all miss it

[RiverAux]

Well, it appears the title of this thread was a little premature --- NY's Gov gave CAP a little slap in the face:

Civil Air Patrol Downed By Veto
Duplication and being counterproductive cited
Posted on July 10, 2007 at 2:09 am by Marc Gronich
The Civil Air Patrol (CAP) will not become a division of the state militia because it is unnecessary and duplicates the efforts of the State Emergency management Office (SEMO) through the State Disaster Preparedness Commission, according to the veto message issued by Governor Eliot Spitzer.

The measure, sponsored by Senator James Seward (R-C Milford, Otsego County) would have created the Civil Air Patrol Board, within the Division of Military and Naval Affairs, to provide state agencies with communications, rescue work, and aerial observations in the interest of national defense and public welfare.

The governor wrote in his veto message the only need for such a board "would be to coordinate the provision of CAP services during the time of an emergency." That is already accomplished by SEMO.

"Effective coordination of emergency response, by its nature, needs to be centralized. If the CAP Board were set up to duplicate the coordinating function now being performed through SEMO, the effect would be to impede coordination, not enhance it," Spitzer wrote in his veto message.

The CAP is a national, federally-chartered organization that serves as an official civilian auxiliary of the United States Air Force. It is supported not only by federal appropriations but also by other sources such as membership dues and corporate and private donations

From here: http://swnsonline.com/?p=277

[SARMedTech]

If the NY Wing of CAP can be used for other such missions as the Assembly shall see fit, does that mean that NY politicos can now use it as their private charter air service?  Somebody get me CAP on the phone, I want to fly to Albany...for FREE!