What sort of vehicle should we be driving?

[RiverAux]

Seeing as how unless you've got a really small cadet unit, even the larger vans are not enough to haul everybody around, maybe we should be looking at something smaller that would avoid all these issues and make sense from a ES point of view. 

Yes, yes, the vans are used for much more than ES, but like I said, they're never going to hold everyone for the big events, but ES missions tend to require a smaller turnout.  For example, you don't need a van for a UDF team, or even for a more normal sized ground team of 5-7 members. 

Given the issues with the large vans, what vehicle might suit our purposes the best?

[arajca]

Basing vehicle selection on ES would lead to Suburban/Excursion class vehicles or four-door pickups, preferably with short beds and work toppers - the ones with side doors and rear barn-style doors. Provides seating for six - nine members and can carry quite abit of stuff.

[MIKE]

M1126 Stryker ICV 

[mikeylikey]

M1126 Stryker ICV 

Perhaps your unit, but for others I reccomend a Schwinn or a huffy all terrain bicycle.  Some people should not be driving to begin with (reference the 90 year old CAP 2nd Lt driving Cadets around in the woods on an ELT mission)

[Stonewall]

(reference the 90 year old CAP 2nd Lt driving Cadets around in the woods on an ELT mission)

No kidding, we thought for sure we'd be doing CPR before the mission was over.  3 cadets in a VW bug with a 70+ year old senior member who smoked like he was going to the chair.

As a cadet and senior, for a long long time I had a Ford Ranger XLT (king cab) pick-up, in AF blue, of course.  We'd use my truck to haul team gear and the squadron van to haul the team.  When we didn't have a van during my cadet daze, we used a POV, usually our CC's conversion van, Jeep Cherokee or a combination of vehicles. 

Later, I got a Ford Exploder Explorer which proved to be very useful.  Enough room for a 5-man ground team and our gear.  Or, 2 personnel up front with the backseats down for the team gear while the rest rode in the van.  Again, the Explorer is AF blue.  These days I suppose a white vehicle would fit in better, but the AF uses a lot of blue trucks these days.

[♠SARKID♠]

Seeing as how unless you've got a really small cadet unit, even the larger vans are not enough to haul everybody around, maybe we should be looking at something smaller that would avoid all these issues and make sense from a ES point of view.

The problem I see is with dual purpose functions.  If you have one vehicle for carrying half the squadron, and one for ES, you have twice the maintanance, liability, insurance, etc.  I agree, a smaller vehicle is better for ES which is why I love our squadron's Expedition.  But if you have a single vehicle it can dual purpose as a bus, and ES carrier.  I want to agree with you so so much but its that cost factor holding me back.

[RiverAux]

Didn't suggest getting another vehicle.  I meant replacing the vans with something else...

[♠SARKID♠]

Didn't suggest getting another vehicle.  I meant replacing the vans with something else...

My mistake, on to the next foreseen problem.  If you switch to a more ES suitable vehicle you'll probably be looking at the Suburbans and Excursions as arajca said.  And with only being able to seat about nine, you'll still need two vehicles to get people where they need to be for those larger events.

[Walkman]

There's a ton of 'Burbs out here. Large families + mountains + mean winters, what else are ya' gonna drive? I've got a 4wd 9-passenger GMC that I've used for CAP stuff. Works great.

[_]

And with only being able to seat about nine, you'll still need two vehicles to get people where they need to be for those larger events.

That's what roof racks and duct tape are for.

My vote is for the 4x4 van:
Quigley Motor Company

[SJFedor]

And with only being able to seat about nine, you'll still need two vehicles to get people where they need to be for those larger events.

That's what roof racks and duct tape are for.

My vote would is for the 4x4 van:
Quigley Motor Company

Or a small box trailer.

That's pretty sweet right there, though.

[Eagle400]

I think short of busses, deuce-and-a-halfs, humvees and the obvious APC's the SF personnel use, CAP should use the same vehicles as the Air Force.

But now that I think about it, a lot of the CAP "4-wheel fleet" consists of the same vans the Air Force uses. 

I would say that they are older than most of the ones in the Air Force, but that wouldn't be accurate because I rode in an Air Force van at Keesler in the Summer of 05' that was just as old as most CAP vans I rode in as a cadet.     

[floridacyclist]

I had a 4X4 diesel Suburban for a while..blew it up on my way home from Katrina. We replaced it with an Astro for family use and by the time I bought another vehicle of my own, my family had shrunk until a 4X4 pathfinder handled it nicely. This seems about the perfect size for GT use and we still have the squadron van along with several pvt minivans if we need more room for an event.

[RiverAux]

An average CAP squadron has about 30 members (based on the last time I divided national membership by number of chartered squadrons).    There is no chance that 1 van is ever going to be able to haul around all the members of squadron to an event, whether ES-related or not.  So, trying to get as large a vehicle as possible will never really do what we need it to. 

I think a 6 person mini-van would be best for most units.  Those that have regular occassion to go 4x4 would work better in a SUV, but it won't be necessary for most work.  Some will say that we need 4x4 on everything for the backcountry missions, but I've been on pretty rugged roads in all parts of the country and you cna get pretty darn far with a street vehicle (yes, I've used minivans on Forest Service roads pretty regularly and never had any trouble).

As to exactly what model, I'm not knowledgable enough about the current market to make a good suggestion there.   

[♠SARKID♠]

I think a 6 person mini-van would be best for most units.  Those that have regular occassion to go 4x4 would work better in a SUV, but it won't be necessary for most work.  Some will say that we need 4x4 on everything for the backcountry missions, but I've been on pretty rugged roads in all parts of the country and you cna get pretty darn far with a street vehicle (yes, I've used minivans on Forest Service roads pretty regularly and never had any trouble).

I oppose that for one reason -

"Hello, I'm MSgt Turkal from the Civil Air Patrol, Soccer Mom Squadron 032."

[DNall]

Vans suck & they aren't appropriate for a lot of mission needs. Last couple days being a good example. The issue is... you can do most ES missions in vans, you can't trans lots of people in a mid-size 4wd.

We really do have to keep the large vans. What I'd prefer is to get rid of the 7pax mini-vans we have in favor of 7-9pax 4wd vehicles. That gives you roughly the same hauling capacity AND a better vehicle.

[nesagsar]

I think short of busses, deuce-and-a-halfs, humvees and the obvious APC's the SF personnel use, CAP should use the same vehicles as the Air Force.

But now that I think about it, a lot of the CAP "4-wheel fleet" consists of the same vans the Air Force uses. 

I would say that they are older than most of the ones in the Air Force, but that wouldn't be accurate because I rode in an Air Force van at Keesler in the Summer of 05' that was just as old as most CAP vans I rode in as a cadet.     

My squadron was stationed on an Army Guard post until a few years ago when they moved to an Air Guard base. When we were on the Army side they let us use military vehicles sometimes. The most memorable was the use of a duece and a half for transporting GP Mediums, cots, heaters, and radios to our bivouac site.

[Ned]

We really do have to keep the large vans. What I'd prefer is to get rid of the 7pax mini-vans we have in favor of 7-9pax 4wd vehicles. That gives you roughly the same hauling capacity AND a better vehicle.

All things being equal a 7pax 4wd will be more useful than a 7pax minivan.

But all things are not equal.  Maintenance and (especially) fuel will be much, much higher for the 4wd vehicles.

That's probably why we have some of both.

[A.Member]

The turbo-diesel, passenger version of the Dodge Sprinter 3500.  Durable, multi-purpose and holds plenty.

[SSgt Rudin]

just keep the vans a get these, throw them on a trailer. Put another seat in the back and a gear rack on the roll cage and you can haul a 4 person ground team around.