Pacific Partnership: A Working Vacation Opportunity

[sandman]

I've been thinking about the program I'm involved with here onboard the USS Peleliu. The ship has travel from San Diego to Hawaii, Guam, the Philippines, Vietnam, Singapore, Papua New Guinea, the Solomon Islands, the Marshall Islands, and finally returning to San Diego via Pearl Harbor.

The mission is to provide humanitarian care to the population of the areas visited (except Singapore, that was a liberty port!).

All along the way we had U.S. and foreign military members embark and disembark. We also had many, many civilian members embark and disembark as well.

These humanitarian service missions are projected to go on for quite awhile (barring changes due to election 2008).

My focus is on the civilian groups. Groups such as Project Hope, Aloha Medical, and Project Smile among others.

After having talked with the JAG and several key members, it would seem that any group could conceiveably volunteer for this mission as long as certain criteria are met. The criteria are covered in memorandum of understanding and signed by the Pacific Fleet Commander (easy to get) and the representative from the group. I have that MOU.

I asked about a group (specifically CAP) volunteering in uniform (BDU's, BBDU's, CAP AF uniforms, TPU's) and there was no problem. (Polo shirts are welcome and encouraged too!)

The volunteer would pay for his/her own airfare to point of embarkation and from point of debarkation. No cost for the "three hots and a cot" while onboard. Actually, there are four "hots" (midrats), all the soda and coffee you can drink, popcorn every night, special snacks on Friday nights (ice cream social, pizza, nacho night, etc), and of course several steel beach picnics with all the food you can eat!

I guess I should mention AFN TV, movie nights, phone capability, internet and e-mail. Cigar smokouts on the fantail. Church is held onboard of course and the Chaplain gives the nightly benediction (Any Chaplains willing to serve?? We could use your assistance as well!!)

I wanted to put a trial balloon up to see if any CAP members might want to have a "working vacation" as a volunteer or know another CAP member that might be interested! The opportunities are on the East coast and West coast onboard a US warship or USNS/MSC ship (USNS Mercy and Comfort).

People needed include Doctors, Dentists, PA's, NP's, CRNA's, RN's, Environmental Health, basically any medically related dicipline (even EMT's).

Also needed are able-bodied members to help out with community relations projects (play "football" with the kids, help with construction projects, etc).

Often there are civilians who serve as the officer in charge or assistant officer in charge of a medical civil assistance program (MEDCAP). You can be placed in "charge" of real military members....believe it or not (don't let it get to your head )

People can go as individuals or small/large groups. Some volunteers stay for a week, some for the whole four months.

Any takers? Any constructive thoughts on this?

Thanks!
v/r
LT

[mikeylikey]

I am all for humanitarian missions, but come on.  Guam??  Hawaii??  VIETNAM???

I should have joined the Navy, perhaps that would have kept me out of Iraq for 2 years and Afghanistan for 1 year.

Seriously......this sounds very interesting.  I would love to do it, but I am sure I will be back pounding the sand not too long from now.  I wonder if I could take a vacation, and come on board as a CAP member even though I am an Army Officer.  Would that be allowed?  I always wanted to visit Guam, and perhaps make my way to America Samoa (where most of our tuna fish comes from BTW). 

I hope a lot of members volunteer for this, it would be a good thing on a personal level and on the PR front!

Good work LT, keep it up........what are you hoping to do for the PHS?   

[RiverAux]

Although you've got approval from the ship, have you gotten approval from CAP and the AF?  There are a lot of unfortunately very vague AF and CAP regulations for this sort of direct support to the military.  You're going to have to go pretty high up the chain of command for this one. I'm all for it though.  Good luck.

[JC004]

I am all for humanitarian missions, but come on.  Guam??  Hawaii??  VIETNAM???

I should have joined the Navy, perhaps that would have kept me out of Iraq for 2 years and Afghanistan for 1 year.

Seriously......this sounds very interesting.  I would love to do it, but I am sure I will be back pounding the sand not too long from now.  I wonder if I could take a vacation, and come on board as a CAP member even though I am an Army Officer.  Would that be allowed?  I always wanted to visit Guam, and perhaps make my way to America Samoa (where most of our tuna fish comes from BTW). 

I hope a lot of members volunteer for this, it would be a good thing on a personal level and on the PR front!

Good work LT, keep it up........what are you hoping to do for the PHS? 

Free tuna sandwiches, eh?  Big fan of sandwiches.  Where do I sign up for such a thing?

[flyerthom]

Sounds very interesting. The whole four months I couldn't do but maybe a shorter stint.

[JohnKachenmeister]

This sounds real interesting, and would bring my life "Full circle," since I served as an HM3 on the USS Repose (AH-16) in Vietnam when I was just a young trooper.  I was assigned to the International Ward, and was responsible for medical care of Vietnamese women and children.  Unfortunately, my EMT certification (the highest civilian medical certification I ever got) is expired.

Any call for Public Affairs Officers? 

The only other thing I'm trained for is law enforcement, which I suspect is not in much demand on a mission such as this.

[Tubacap]

I like construction and could do a week in the summer.

[sandman]

Great!
I'm getting some positive PM's and good posts here on this board. I will try to tap into the CAP medical providers who are gabbing on the Yahoo group.

I will be gathering more information for those of you who are not medically trained but are able to spend maybe a week or two or more as a COMREL augmentee working with the chaplain and/or Seabees.

I'll also work on a packing list to include uniforms. Again, there's no problem with wearing the CAP uniform onboard. You may also want to consider investing in a couple of Navy coveralls. The AF folks onboard, E's & O's, are wearing the Navy coverall as an additional uniform. I'll have guidelines for wear and actual sew-on rank for you (and it won't be that crappy day-glo blue on the current BDU's). Of course if you don't want to wear "rank" we'll just use CAP cutouts or something like that. Anyway, that's just a small detail to be fleshed out later.

Biggest things that I would ask for all volunteers to work on ASAP are:

1) Current U.S. Passport.
2) Current immunizations with documentation.
3) CAP photo ID card.
4) Current field uniform of choice, up to date, no old shabby uniforms, at least three. (uniforms are laundered by the ship, you launder your own personal items and civvies)
5) At least one current, appropriatly tailored, dress uniform---there will be functions and "hob-nobbing" to attend!

This is just a short list....more to follow!

/r
LT

(self appointed mission commander / liason officer )

[JC004]

sweet.  make it happen.   

[sandman]

I am all for humanitarian missions, but come on.  Guam??  Hawaii??  VIETNAM???

I should have joined the Navy, perhaps that would have kept me out of Iraq for 2 years and Afghanistan for 1 year.

Depends on your profession.....after almost a decade, my only deployments have been six months in GTMO and 3+ months on the USS Peleliu.....I had to ask for both.

Seriously......this sounds very interesting.  I would love to do it, but I am sure I will be back pounding the sand not too long from now.  I wonder if I could take a vacation, and come on board as a CAP member even though I am an Army Officer.  Would that be allowed?  I always wanted to visit Guam, and perhaps make my way to America Samoa (where most of our tuna fish comes from BTW).

Certainly allowed. Though you might get some ribbing if your dual status is found out! What is you profession again?

I hope a lot of members volunteer for this, it would be a good thing on a personal level and on the PR front!

Not only that, but a real operational mission especially for those CAP members in the medical field.....I keep hearing a lot of "complaints" from the Yahoo medical group about not being able to work in their profession in CAP uniform. Potentially the best operational deployment since WW2!

Good work LT, keep it up........what are you hoping to do for the PHS?

Same thing I'm doing in th Navy. I'm just getting too old to play the military game anymore. I have job offers with DIHS (immigration health), BOP (federal prisons), IHS (working on the rez....indian health), and FDA (FDA enforcer, I'll have a badge, gun, gov't plated cop car....all to make sure your lipstick wasn't illegally tested on dogs and such.....no really, it's true!  )

/r
LT

[mikeylikey]

^  I hope this really takes off!  I am an Artillery Officer in Army, currently preparing to instruct cadidiots cadets in ROTC when the semester begins after the holiday.  Perhaps if I can take a week or two off, that would be awesome.  I am in need of getting a second Humanitarian award.  Not that it would be the ONLY reason I would join up for the cruise, of course.

[sandman]

I hope the idea comes to fruition with actual deployment of CAP volunteers.

This is an idea in a conception phase. No guarantees right now. As before, the framework is already tested and available. Now I gotta work out the details with at least three entities: Navy=no problem, AF=precedence already set, I'm working with seven AF officers and 6 AF enlisted on board right now, CAP NHQ=gotta do some legwork on that.

Anybody have some inside contacts with CAP NHQ? How about some of you "guests" out there?

[RiverAux]

Sandman, can  you comment on whether you have the CAP and AF approvals necessary (and who you got them from) for this sort of service to be done in CAP uniform and as a CAP duty?  Others interested in this general sort of activity would probably like to hear how you navigated your way through these arcane rules.  Thanks.

[JohnKachenmeister]

The rules are not all that arcane, River.

If the AF is involved in humanitarian missions, then the missions are "Non-combat missions and programs of the Air Force" and we can do them.

NHQ must bless the plan, which is why they MIGHT have a job for me (PAO, 300th MP Command, 6 years; PAO, TF-364, 6 month, Honduras;  Broadcast Officer, 367th PA Detachment, 2 years; Graduate, Defense Information School, 1984) even though my medical skills go back to when "Attachment of Leeches" was considered a highly technical medical procedure.  They will need someone to tell the story of CAP's overseas exploits.

Sparky... Want a job as asst PAO?

[RiverAux]

John, please refer to the many AF and CAP regulations and MOUs cited in the AF base augmentation threads to see how much would have to be done to make this an official CAP activity.  In particular AFI 10-2701 which lays out procedures for AFAMs.  And since any mission in support of a federal agency must be an AFAM and since this regulation prohibits CAP from conducting AFAMs outside the US without specific permission, it isn't as clearcut as you might think. 

[mikeylikey]

If we are going to look for ways not to do this, perhaps sandman can just ask for volunteers, not CAP volunteers.  Then afterwards, the PAO tagline will be "35 CAP members donate time to help rebuild (insert place here)".

[sandman]

Sandman, can  you comment on whether you have the CAP and AF approvals necessary (and who you got them from) for this sort of service to be done in CAP uniform and as a CAP duty?  Others interested in this general sort of activity would probably like to hear how you navigated your way through these arcane rules.  Thanks.

Good question RiverAux. The short answer is no. Not yet.

This idea worked its way up to my frontal cortex only a few days ago so there are challenges yet to face.....I give it a less than 50% chance.

My focus will be to challange the USAF to meet its mission statement as written in the CAP-USAF website (emphasis added):

Our Mission
Guide, Assist, and provide Oversight to the Air Force's Auxiliary, the Civil Air Patrol, as they serve America by performing Homeland Security and humanitarian missions for our communities, states, and nation; developing our country's youth; and educating our citizens on the importance of air and space power.

I will welcome the assistance of anyone with connections and the ability to schmooze (John? Sparky?).

Let's keep the momentum going....this could be a good thing!  

[RiverAux]

I'm not looking for a way not to do it....I'm strongly in favor of it.  However, if it isn't done right it could be a major disaster that keeps CAP from doing similar missions in the future. 

Sandman, I'd recommend putting together a nice professional proposal on this issue and forwarding it up the chain to your Wing commander and then make sure you get an Air Force Assigned Mission number for it -- there is no way to do this as a corporate mission. 

[sandman]

I'm not looking for a way not to do it....I'm strongly in favor of it.  However, if it isn't done right it could be a major disaster that keeps CAP from doing similar missions in the future. 

Sandman, I'd recommend putting together a nice professional proposal on this issue and forwarding it up the chain to your Wing commander and then make sure you get an Air Force Assigned Mission number for it -- there is no way to do this as a corporate mission. 

I couldn't agree more. The idea is great but needs to be looked at from several perspectives. I cannot put this together alone so I will need any assistance I could get.

An AF assigned mission number would be icing on the cake as it may defer airfare costs for members willing to participate (flying MAC one way or both).

If corporate blesses it then all the member needs to do is secure airfare / transportation from embarkation point of choice and from debarkation point of choice. The devil is in the details however.

I'll work on the proposal after completion of this mission but I sure wouldn't mind some helpful hints and suggestions from the many CAP oriented minds out there. I'm sure someone has greater experience with writing proposals and grant requests than myself....there's gotta be some brighter minds out there

[JohnKachenmeister]

I'm not looking for a way not to do it....I'm strongly in favor of it.  However, if it isn't done right it could be a major disaster that keeps CAP from doing similar missions in the future. 

Sandman, I'd recommend putting together a nice professional proposal on this issue and forwarding it up the chain to your Wing commander and then make sure you get an Air Force Assigned Mission number for it -- there is no way to do this as a corporate mission. 

River:

You are right.  This is an Air Force mission, since it is working for the Federal government.  But, Sandman, I am not the one to schmooze.  The closer people get to the "Flagpole" the more likely they are to dislike me.  Something about my overall lack of tact and diplomacy, or something.

I concur with River that a proposal to National is indicated.  Susie Parker would be your POC, since she is the POC for just about everything there.  I would:

1.  Write a detailed background ststement detailing the mission and why CAP officers would be needed.

2.  Identify the skills needed.

3.  Establish a POC who can match skills to needs and availability, an S-1 sort of guy.

4.  Develop a standard checklist of requirements (You have a start there already).

5.  Develop a standard application procedure, with a standard-format bio statement attached as an annex that people can use as an exemplar.

[sandman]

Kach,

Good points and good advice. The checklist I posted was just a "teaser". There are many more details to post which will be done soon enough.

Much of what is needed is outlined in an existing MOU that I have. The MOU is from a NGO to the Navy and is very well suited for this operation.

The AF and CAP NHQ shouldn't have too much heartache about giving a "go" to this operation, after all, this kind of thing is what CAP is really all about. We're just extending it beyond the borders of CONUS. Besides, the PR value alone would be incredible.

[JC004]

...
We're just extending it beyond the borders of CONUS. Besides, the PR value alone would be incredible.

So those "US Civil Air Patrol" tapes will come in handy?   

[afgeo4]

May I see a list of nations and time requirements for "cuises" leaving from the East Coast?

[SAR-EMT1]

I've been thinking about the program I'm involved with here onboard the USS Peleliu. The ship has travel from San Diego to Hawaii, Guam, the Philippines, Vietnam, Singapore, Papua New Guinea, the Solomon Islands, the Marshall Islands, and finally returning to San Diego via Pearl Harbor.

The mission is to provide humanitarian care to the population of the areas visited (except Singapore, that was a liberty port!).

All along the way we had U.S. and foreign military members embark and disembark. We also had many, many civilian members embark and disembark as well.

These humanitarian service missions are projected to go on for quite awhile (barring changes due to election 2008).

My focus is on the civilian groups. Groups such as Project Hope, Aloha Medical, and Project Smile among others.

After having talked with the JAG and several key members, it would seem that any group could conceiveably volunteer for this mission as long as certain criteria are met. The criteria are covered in memorandum of understanding and signed by the Pacific Fleet Commander (easy to get) and the representative from the group. I have that MOU.

I asked about a group (specifically CAP) volunteering in uniform (BDU's, BBDU's, CAP AF uniforms, TPU's) and there was no problem. (Polo shirts are welcome and encouraged too!)

The volunteer would pay for his/her own airfare to point of embarkation and from point of debarkation. No cost for the "three hots and a cot" while onboard. Actually, there are four "hots" (midrats), all the soda and coffee you can drink, popcorn every night, special snacks on Friday nights (ice cream social, pizza, nacho night, etc), and of course several steel beach picnics with all the food you can eat!

I guess I should mention AFN TV, movie nights, phone capability, internet and e-mail. Cigar smokouts on the fantail. Church is held onboard of course and the Chaplain gives the nightly benediction (Any Chaplains willing to serve?? We could use your assistance as well!!)

I wanted to put a trial balloon up to see if any CAP members might want to have a "working vacation" as a volunteer or know another CAP member that might be interested! The opportunities are on the East coast and West coast onboard a US warship or USNS/MSC ship (USNS Mercy and Comfort).

People needed include Doctors, Dentists, PA's, NP's, CRNA's, RN's, Environmental Health, basically any medically related dicipline (even EMT's).

Also needed are able-bodied members to help out with community relations projects (play "football" with the kids, help with construction projects, etc).

Often there are civilians who serve as the officer in charge or assistant officer in charge of a medical civil assistance program (MEDCAP). You can be placed in "charge" of real military members....believe it or not (don't let it get to your head )

People can go as individuals or small/large groups. Some volunteers stay for a week, some for the whole four months.

Any takers? Any constructive thoughts on this?

Thanks!
v/r
LT

In a word, sign me up. Seriously.
I do have three questions though:
Vaccinations prior to embarkation?
I know wearing a CAP  uniform is doubtful, but what about my USCG Aux Uniform?
Is there a deadline to sign up for this?
PM me with all details.
As long as I have orders to report (even if Im vollunteering) I can get away from work indefinately.
Thank you.

[Trouble]

Sign me up!

  A Short Det. would be great.  I need a vacation.   This would be a terrific assignment for US CAP Officers.  Hope you get this approved and it sees the light of day. Could open the doors to more of these type of Opportunities develop over time.

[sandman]

May I see a list of nations and time requirements for "cuises" leaving from the East Coast?

George,

I'll get back to you on that soon. Thanks for your interest! The platform that is currently underway is the USNS Comfort. You can follow thier progress via their website.

v/r
LT

[sandman]

In a word, sign me up. Seriously.
I do have three questions though:
Vaccinations prior to embarkation?
I know wearing a CAP  uniform is doubtful, but what about my USCG Aux Uniform?
Is there a deadline to sign up for this?
PM me with all details.
As long as I have orders to report (even if Im vollunteering) I can get away from work indefinately.
Thank you.

I am still working on the details but will keep you updated as I can. I am also considering bringing this proposal to the CGAUX side too. I have talked with the "medical director" before. Again, I'll let you know! Thanks for your interest!

v/r
LT

[davedove]

My focus will be to challange the USAF to meet its mission statement as written in the CAP-USAF website (emphasis added):

Our Mission
Guide, Assist, and provide Oversight to the Air Force's Auxiliary, the Civil Air Patrol, as they serve America by performing Homeland Security and humanitarian missions for our communities, states, and nation; developing our country's youth; and educating our citizens on the importance of air and space power.

One hangup might be going into other nations as CAP.  It would certainly work in Hawaii, and possibly Guam, a US territory, but I don't know how the other locations would work.

[sandman]

One hangup might be going into other nations as CAP.  It would certainly work in Hawaii, and possibly Guam, a US territory, but I don't know how the other locations would work.

I understand what you mean and that is always a possibility. Reading the regs allows for CAP uniforms to be worn into foreign nations for activities such as IACE.

most foreign governments prohibit the wear of military uniforms by
visitors. Members will not wear a CAP uniform in a foreign country
except for members on orders to participate in the International Air
Cadet Exchange or other international events for which National
Headquarters has expressly authorized the wearing of the uniform.
Members of CAP cadet squadrons overseas wear the CAP uniform
on the host military installation only upon approval of the installation
commander in accordance with CAPR 35-4, Overseas Cadet
Squadrons.

So here is what we have to work with:

except for members on orders to participate [in] other international events for which National
Headquarters has expressly authorized the wearing of the uniform

Here is the caveat:

visiting military installations. Members will make every effort to
comply with local installation uniform policy. If policy is not
known, the CAP-USAF state director or the installation's public
affairs office may be contacted for guidance.

Being aboard a US Naval vessel I believe is "visiting military instillations". The local uniform policy will be known because it will be written in the MOU. If CAP-NHQ has a problem with going ashore wearing the CAP uniform (remember, you would still be with a military activity on an away team) then we can have CAP members wear a specific uniform combination for going ashore. On that note my two proposals would be: 1) wear of the US Navy jumpsuit appropriatly modified with CAP insignia or some other method of identification, or 2) Wear a printed T-shirt / blue BDU bottom combination (which is in use by some NGO participants currently).

I think this is still "do-able". I believe we can get CAP onboard with current uniform combinations. Although there are a variety of field and dress uniforms, maybe we can agree upon one standard for the mission, but that shouldn't be a show stopper if a variety of uniforms come aboard.

Maybe we can establish CAPTalk as an "overseas" CAP squadron and therefore:

Members of CAP cadet squadrons overseas wear the CAP uniform
on the host military installation only upon approval of the installation
commander in accordance with CAPR 35-4, Overseas Cadet
Squadrons

Afterall, CAPTalk is by far the largest "composite squadron" within CAP and one of the cutting edge e-squadrons.....

[mikeylikey]

You Sir, are the proud parent of a new word.  E-Squadron.  Congratulations.  Expect the CAP Corporate lawyers to threaten you contact you about your new phrase.  I am sure they would be Happy to buy it from you!

[JohnKachenmeister]

If CAP is on an AF authorized mission, then wear of the AF uniform is expected.  IACE is a cadet special activity, not an AFAM. 

I was in most of those countries, and always wore a US uniform there.

[sandman]

You Sir, are the proud parent of a new word.  E-Squadron.  Congratulations.  Expect the CAP Corporate lawyers to threaten you contact you about your new phrase.  I am sure they would be Happy to buy it from you!

Don't know if the Black Vans can get to the pier or if they have jurisdiction on foreign soil.....have seen a Black Boat though.....

[JC004]

Don't know if the Black Vans can get to the pier or if they have jurisdiction on foreign soil.....have seen a Black Boat though.....

WATCH OUT FOR THAT BOAT!

[afgeo4]

If CAP is on an AF authorized mission, then wear of the AF uniform is expected.  IACE is a cadet special activity, not an AFAM. 

I was in most of those countries, and always wore a US uniform there.

CAP members wear a corporate uniform, even it if is USAF style. All our uniforms are CAP uniforms and thus are corporate. That's why there's so much confusion among new members about the topic. Anyway... the regs state that CAP members shouldn't wear the uniform outside of the United States, but... I've seen pictures of our cadets wearing BDUs at a Canadian Airshow...

[afgeo4]

One hangup might be going into other nations as CAP.  It would certainly work in Hawaii, and possibly Guam, a US territory, but I don't know how the other locations would work.

I understand what you mean and that is always a possibility. Reading the regs allows for CAP uniforms to be worn into foreign nations for activities such as IACE.

most foreign governments prohibit the wear of military uniforms by
visitors. Members will not wear a CAP uniform in a foreign country
except for members on orders to participate in the International Air
Cadet Exchange or other international events for which National
Headquarters has expressly authorized the wearing of the uniform.
Members of CAP cadet squadrons overseas wear the CAP uniform
on the host military installation only upon approval of the installation
commander in accordance with CAPR 35-4, Overseas Cadet
Squadrons.

So here is what we have to work with:

except for members on orders to participate [in] other international events for which National
Headquarters has expressly authorized the wearing of the uniform

Here is the caveat:

visiting military installations. Members will make every effort to
comply with local installation uniform policy. If policy is not
known, the CAP-USAF state director or the installation's public
affairs office may be contacted for guidance.

Being aboard a US Naval vessel I believe is "visiting military instillations". The local uniform policy will be known because it will be written in the MOU. If CAP-NHQ has a problem with going ashore wearing the CAP uniform (remember, you would still be with a military activity on an away team) then we can have CAP members wear a specific uniform combination for going ashore. On that note my two proposals would be: 1) wear of the US Navy jumpsuit appropriatly modified with CAP insignia or some other method of identification, or 2) Wear a printed T-shirt / blue BDU bottom combination (which is in use by some NGO participants currently).

I think this is still "do-able". I believe we can get CAP onboard with current uniform combinations. Although there are a variety of field and dress uniforms, maybe we can agree upon one standard for the mission, but that shouldn't be a show stopper if a variety of uniforms come aboard.

Maybe we can establish CAPTalk as an "overseas" CAP squadron and therefore:

Members of CAP cadet squadrons overseas wear the CAP uniform
on the host military installation only upon approval of the installation
commander in accordance with CAPR 35-4, Overseas Cadet
Squadrons

Afterall, CAPTalk is by far the largest "composite squadron" within CAP and one of the cutting edge e-squadrons.....

Two solutions... wear BDU's with "old" Civil Air Patrol tapes (without U.S.) and take of the US flag, thereby confusing all natives about which nation's CAP we really are or... polo shirts with blue bdu bottoms and black boots. Professional looking, representative, but non-combatant looking.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Since the Navy people are wearing Navy uniforms, why cant the Air Force people wear Air Force uniforms?  Use of the flag in overseas areas has been standard for the last 15 or 20 years.  It is just recently that wear of the flag on the uniform was allowed to continue in the US.  Before, the flag was put on for deployments, and removed upon return.  Seeing Americans wearing an American flag overseas is not unusual for foreigners.

Like I said, I wore an American uniform in most of those countries before.  I got a little negative feedback on it in Cua Viet, though.   

[afgeo4]

Since the Navy people are wearing Navy uniforms, why cant the Air Force people wear Air Force uniforms?  Use of the flag in overseas areas has been standard for the last 15 or 20 years.  It is just recently that wear of the flag on the uniform was allowed to continue in the US.  Before, the flag was put on for deployments, and removed upon return.  Seeing Americans wearing an American flag overseas is not unusual for foreigners.

Like I said, I wore an American uniform in most of those countries before.  I got a little negative feedback on it in Cua Viet, though.   

Umm... Air Force people can wear the Air Force uniform. We're talking about CAP people who are not Air Force people.

Use of flag was standard on uniforms of the US Army. USAF did not normally and still does not normally wear the US flag on their uniform. They believe the fact that it says "US Air Force" is enough to identify them as such. Some units did make Airmen buy flags and attach them to left shoulders, above chevrons, but very few.

As such, you keep forgetting that we are civllians and should be identified as such when visiting other nations, especially when along side of military personnel.

[Pylon]

You guys are arguing what threads a theoretical person is going to wear if somebody volunteers for this, if the MOU gets worked out, and if NHQ leaves it up to the discretion of the individual (doubt it).  Think about it... this person would be in a sea of uniforms from the variety of Navy ones to other branches to foreign uniforms to the unofficial  uniforms of NGOs and IGOs, and all sorts of combinations thereof. 

A huge American ship pulls into port, flying an American flag with tons of U.S. Navy personnel wearing U.S. uniforms debarking the ship.

You think it really matters whether or not we have the American flag on our BDUs or not, or if we wear the BBDUs versus the BDUs because of what non-U.S. people might think?

Here's what I think.  I think it wouldn't matter.  I think it anybody actually volunteered their time to be on ship with the U.S. Navy doing true humanitarian work... work that others are getting paid to do... on their own dime and time, and CAP has approved the arrangement, I say they should be able to wear any of the combinations CAP has.  As if in a sea of hundreds of uniformed personnel, the one CAP guy in the crowd is somehow going to throw everything askew based on which CAP uniform combo he wears.   


Seriously folks...  this is a very cool opportunity for CAP volunteers with spare time and dime to help out in the world in a really serious way and what do you all argue about?  Uniforms.   

Find something better (or how about productive?) to discuss about this awesome idea, would you?   

[RogueLeader]

^^ In this capacity, We would be AF AUX (AUX on) and thus, while being a civilian, still attached as AF.

Umm... Air Force people can wear the Air Force uniform. We're talking about CAP people who are not Air Force people.

Use of flag was standard on uniforms of the US Army. USAF did not normally and still does not normally wear the US flag on their uniform. They believe the fact that it says "US Air Force" is enough to identify them as such. Some units did make Airmen buy flags and attach them to left shoulders, above chevrons, but very few.

As such, you keep forgetting that we are civllians and should be identified as such when visiting other nations, especially when along side of military personnel.

Gee, we would be doing a military job as a member of a Military Auxiliary, working along-side of Military personnel.  So could we not be afforded the privilege of wearing our own uniforms.  We would be wearing them on ship.  So why would we change into "civies" before disembarking for visitation to Port?

[Pylon]

Seriously folks...  this is a very cool opportunity for CAP volunteers with spare time and dime to help out in the world in a really serious way and what do you all argue about?  Uniforms.   

Find something better (or how about productive?) to discuss about this awesome idea, would you?   

[RogueLeader]

Pylon, so true.

[afgeo4]

Please research uniforms of contracted civillians and AAFES employees while deployed to combat zones. They wear uniforms, but without military insignia. It says US Civillian or AAFES on their branch tapes. Same can and should be applied to civillians (CAP aren't military) while on this mission. That's why uniforms have to be given thought by NHQ and AF and Navy. It does matter. It's an issue of liability in case something happens like a coup on an island and the new gov't isn't US friendly and starts shooting anyone in a US uniform because they're "US Military" in their minds. It's not an issue of professionalism, it's an issue of liability and politics. International politics in this case.

[Pylon]

Seriously folks...  this is a very cool opportunity for CAP volunteers with spare time and dime to help out in the world in a really serious way and what do you all argue about?  Uniforms.   

Find something better (or how about productive?) to discuss about this awesome idea, would you?   

[JC004]

Seriously folks...  this is a very cool opportunity for CAP volunteers with spare time and dime to help out in the world in a really serious way and what do you all argue about?  Uniforms.   

Find something better (or how about productive?) to discuss about this awesome idea, would you?   

[Trouble]

You guys are arguing what threads a theoretical person is going to wear if somebody volunteers for this, if the MOU gets worked out, and if NHQ leaves it up to the discretion of the individual (doubt it).  Think about it... this person would be in a sea of uniforms from the variety of Navy ones to other branches to foreign uniforms to the unofficial  uniforms of NGOs and IGOs, and all sorts of combinations thereof. 

A huge American ship pulls into port, flying an American flag with tons of U.S. Navy personnel wearing U.S. uniforms debarking the ship.

You think it really matters whether or not we have the American flag on our BDUs or not, or if we wear the BBDUs versus the BDUs because of what non-U.S. people might think?

Here's what I think.  I think it wouldn't matter.  I think it anybody actually volunteered their time to be on ship with the U.S. Navy doing true humanitarian work... work that others are getting paid to do... on their own dime and time, and CAP has approved the arrangement, I say they should be able to wear any of the combinations CAP has.  As if in a sea of hundreds of uniformed personnel, the one CAP guy in the crowd is somehow going to throw everything askew based on which CAP uniform combo he wears.   


Seriously folks...  this is a very cool opportunity for CAP volunteers with spare time and dime to help out in the world in a really serious way and what do you all argue about?  Uniforms.   

Find something better (or how about productive?) to discuss about this awesome idea, would you?   

Well Said.  Sir.

[afgeo4]

I think we're having difficulty discussing this topic because it hasn't been approved by any of our authorities and as such, it's only a dream.

[RogueLeader]

Lets think of it this way- with Sandmans approval:
This is not a dream.
This is a concept.
We like this concept.
We want all levels to approve this concept- CAP, AF, and NAVY.
Lets figure out obstacles that might prevent approval.
Figure solutions to ^ obstacles.
Dress concept up Chain of Command and see what happens.

[sandman]

Well....

I appreciate those with enthusiasm for looking at the "other side of the coin". It provides a "gut check" when applied appropriatly.

The truth of the matter is that you can volunteer at anytime for a mission such as this. I anticipated that this thread might boil down to a uniform discussion.....it's a result of that almost pandemic CAP self-loathing.

I never said it would be easy......but don't blow chunks over the idea because you're inebriated with self-loathing.

This idea is only a week or so old and I haven't even had a chance to write up a formal proposal......give it some time. Lets work together on this....not against each other.

BTW, if you get AF orders to do this.....you will wear the uniform according to the local uniform authority (ship's captain and DESRON commodore) and MOU.

[RogueLeader]

Cool. What do you want me to do?  I'll do what I can.

[Pylon]

Lets think of it this way- with Sandmans approval:
This is not a dream.
This is a concept.
We like this concept.
We want all levels to approve this concept- CAP, AF, and NAVY.
Lets figure out obstacles that might prevent approval.
Figure solutions to ^ obstacles.
Dress concept up Chain of Command and see what happens.

Sounds about right.  Let's do it.  Where do we start?

(and FYI, I love this concept!)

[sandman]

Please research uniforms of contracted civillians and AAFES employees while deployed to combat zones. They wear uniforms, but without military insignia. It says US Civillian or AAFES on their branch tapes. Same can and should be applied to civillians (CAP aren't military) while on this mission. That's why uniforms have to be given thought by NHQ and AF and Navy. It does matter. It's an issue of liability in case something happens like a coup on an island and the new gov't isn't US friendly and starts shooting anyone in a US uniform because they're "US Military" in their minds. It's not an issue of professionalism, it's an issue of liability and politics. International politics in this case.

Done.

You're right. Contractors and AAFES wear no rank. They get killed just the same. But this is not the Middle East.

Areas for volunteers are prescreened by the State Department along with input from various intelligence agencies. This mission will not be sent to politically unstable areas. You're reading way too much into this and incorrectly applying assumptions. Don't worry about uniform issues right now. Let's work on the framework to make this mission happen first.

......like a coup on an island and the new gov't isn't US friendly and starts shooting.....

I gotta let that stand alone.....you are just too funny man...

...c'mon think about it......Do you know anything about these islands? History etc? Heck, I had a lunchoen with the President of the Marshall Islands yesterday. Very gentle man and educated in the US. Even had a movie star on board yesterday! Anybody see "Top Gun" (Tom Cruise, et al)?

Well if you did you might remember the scene where "Maverick" and "Goose" flip "the bird" while inverted to a "MiG" pilot?

That "MiG' pilot is now Admiral Robert F. Willard! I gave the President and ADM Willard (commander PACFLT, and the real boss of this mission) a tour of the medical department and received a cool command coin. Just one of a few command coins I received so far, unfortunatly I missed receiving a coin from the SECNAV because I was ashore doing a MEDCAP.

Anyway, Just one of the highlights you would have as a volunteer on such a mission!

[sandman]

Sounds about right.  Let's do it.  Where do we start?
(and FYI, I love this concept!)

Cool. What do you want me to do?  I'll do what I can.

Allright! I've got another week to go on this mission and would like to start working on a proposal when I get home.....working with the onboard computers are a bit slowwww, feels like a 28.8 modem at times (but at least you'll have internet and e-mail onboard!).

So, I need input to go from concept to proposal. I have an MOU used by other NGO's which I'll attach so you can look it over. In the meantime, it wouldn't hurt to start working on a U.S. Passport if you don't already have one. It will become useful to you anyway at some later point.

[JC004]

...
So, I need input to go from concept to proposal. I have an MOU used by other NGO's which I'll attach so you can look it over. In the meantime, it wouldn't hurt to start working on a U.S. Passport if you don't already have one. It will become useful to you anyway at some later point.

That could take a while by what the news is saying...  Should be changing soon, though.

Luckily I already have one...

[Pylon]

Have a well-stamped, well-weathered U.S. passport on hand.   

Where's that agreement at?   

[RogueLeader]

Doubt I could go, but maybe I could be able to get a grant from work (Wal-Mart)- they do Grants for Volunteer Service.  But i will definitely help others to where they could go.

[afgeo4]

The MOU should state the Navy taking on the responsibility for the individual's security and medical issues while on mission. What security screening will be necessary to go on such a mission? US citizen a must or will residence be ok? Physical condition restraints? Ailments that preclude from doing this? Age limitations?

[SAR-EMT1]

If CAP personnel would be required/ allowed to undergo damage control or watchstanding training etc. What is the procedure for the vollunteers during a fire or General Quarters evolution...

Here is a good question:
Given that the Navy will provide for us while aboard, what should we be bringing in terms of CASH for the beach, phone cards, laptops, etc...
I ask you as someone who has been there.

[JohnKachenmeister]

If CAP personnel would be required/ allowed to undergo damage control or watchstanding training etc. What is the procedure for the vollunteers during a fire or General Quarters evolution...

Here is a good question:
Given that the Navy will provide for us while aboard, what should we be bringing in terms of CASH for the beach, phone cards, laptops, etc...
I ask you as someone who has been there.

Check the Watch, Quarter, and Station Bill. 

Actually, since I once served on a hospital ship in a previous life, I can answer that, pretty much.  If you are assigned to a ward, your battle station is the ward and your duty is to care for your patients.  If you are a trained medic, you MAY be assigned to a damage control party as the corpsman, but normally they use corpsmen from the O.R., labs, and X-ray who don't have patients to take care of for that duty.  I would guess that a basic course in shipboard firefighting would be given before you sail, since all hands need to be familiar with the types of fire supression apparatus on a ship.

[jimmydeanno]

[off topic] 
I took my cadets in my last squadron to the Damage control training center at Norfolk, VA - wicked cool!  Learning to shore up hatches and patch hull breaches was really fun - the cadets got wet - good thing too because it was Virginina...in the middle of July...[/off topic]

This sounds like a great opportunity for anyone, not just CAP members.  If I was able to take that much time off I would definitely try to do this, even if it weren't through CAP - unfortunately, my wife likes to have a place to live...

Sandman, I'm am amazed at your commitment to serve - from what I've seen of you on this board, you epitomize the very meaning; from your service in the Navy to your continued service in CAP and onto even more service in terms of humanitarian missions - BZ to you!

[SAR-EMT1]

If CAP personnel would be required/ allowed to undergo damage control or watchstanding training etc. What is the procedure for the vollunteers during a fire or General Quarters evolution...

Here is a good question:
Given that the Navy will provide for us while aboard, what should we be bringing in terms of CASH for the beach, phone cards, laptops, etc...
I ask you as someone who has been there.

Check the Watch, Quarter, and Station Bill. 

\  If you are a trained medic, you MAY be assigned to a damage control party as the corpsman, but normally they use corpsmen from the O.R., labs, and X-ray who don't have patients to take care of for that duty.  I would guess that a basic course in shipboard firefighting would be given before you sail, since all hands need to be familiar with the types of fire supression apparatus on a ship.

Well, since Im involved in Hazmat and Fire Suppression as part of my job, I didnt know if it was possible (assisting with damage control itself). I didnt even know that medics were assigned as part of a damage control team.