ES Specialty Qualifications

[Claar]

What counts as an ES specialty qualification?  Is it anything under the ES and OPS drop-down menu in the SQTR page, or are qualifications only specialty TRACKS?  What I am specifically wondering is whether or not my CERT or MSA qualifications in eServices counts as a specialty qualification towards my ES patch.

[Eclipse]

MSA does.

[Claar]

Then I assume CERT doesn't?

[Eclipse]

"3. Requirements for Award of the CAP Emergency Services Patch. Current and qualified in accordance with CAPR 60-3 CAP Emergency Services Training and Operational Missions 26 December 2012 as a general emergency services member with one additional specialty qualification."

MSA is a specialty qualification, CERT is not.

[lordmonar]

It is in OPS Qaulifcations...got a SQTR and everything.

[Luis R. Ramos]

MSgt:

All the following have SQTRs:

IS 100
IS 200
IS 700
IS 800
ICS 300
ICS 400

So now, because these have SQTRS they are ES specialty qualifications?

[lordmonar]

I don't know.....please provide me with a definition of ES Specialty Qualifications.

In Ops Qual....it lists the IS courses as "TASKS" but cert is listed as an Achievement just like all the other Specialties.

It requires GES and OPSEC to get qualified.

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck.....it probably is a duck.....granted it may be a goose with a throat condition....but IMHO it is an ES specialty just like the others.

YMMV

[Eclipse]

CAP doesn't do or train Cert.

Its in there in anticipation of future implementation.

The latest 60-3 pretends CAP does "CERTS" (with Retsyn!), so now GTs are Two! Two! Two Teams in one...

If your CC accepts that CERT is a qual, he can approve the badge, if not, he won't.

[Panache]

We recently got a new member of our squadron who is on the local CERT team.  Once we plugged in his CERT qualification into eServices (he had already completed CAPT 116), the system flagged him for his Emergency Services Patch.

[Camas]

MSgt:
All the following have SQTRs:
IS 100
IS 200
IS 700
IS 800
ICS 300
ICS 400
So now, because these have SQTRS they are ES specialty qualifications?

What you've listed are "tasks" and those are additional requirements for advanced training to qualify for"achievements".
An achievement such as MSA or MRO would qualify for the ES patch.
Earning a task alone does not; it's simply a requirement that must be met for qualification in an ES achievement along with other requirements such as familiarization and preparatory or advanced training of which the courses you've listed are a part.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Camas, you do not understand sarcasm!

I am well aware those are tasks. It was a response to Lord who listed CERT as a specialty. CERT status is ambiguous. It is one of those things that Eclipse refers to something like this: it is because CAP calls it, except when it is not, but is. Or something like that.

CERT is not referred in the actual ES regulations as a specialty. So it is a task, or CAP has not decided what role members with it are to have. But a SQTR can be pulled like other ES specialties with the difference that other specialties will produce a SQTR with a place to sign. A CERT SQTR does not show a place to sign. Just like the tasks I mentioned. If you click on them individually at the bottom where it has the following buttons:

Submit        Delete         Clear Selected        Resubmit SQTR        Print ICS 300 SQTR

When you click the last one, it will list it by itself with no space for a signature.

So yes, those are tasks, and I regard CERT as a task because if you print that task by itself the SQTR generated does not allow for signatures. Otherwise I have achieved another ES specialty!

[JeffDG]

Take a look at CAPR 60-3 2-3f:

The following are the approved emergency services specialty qualifications above the
GES level.

[GrimReaper]

Excerpt from CAP Knowledge Base:  Published 10/03/2012 06:43 AM   |    Updated 04/10/2014 07:57 AM     |    Answer ID: 2364

CERT certification does qualify members to wear the Emergency Services Patch if the member is also GES qualified and they are current and qualified in CERT, i.e. it is currently reflected on their 101 card as current. 

CAPR 35-6 Paragraph 3 states: "Requirements for Award of the CAP Emergency Services Patch. Current and qualified in accordance with CAPR 60-3, CAP Emergency Services Training and Operational Missions as a general emergency services member with one additional specialty qualification." CERT would be considered an additional specialty qualification.

References: 

CAPR 35-6 Aeronautical Ratings, Emergency Services Patch and Badges, and Ground Team Badges 17 Aug 2002

CAPR 60-3 CAP Emergency Services Training and Operational Missions 26 December 2012

[JeffDG]

CERT is listed in CAPR 60-3, 2-3f

As an approver for these, I pretty much treat that list as definitive.

[Storm Chaser]

Camas, you do not understand sarcasm!

I am well aware those are tasks. It was a response to Lord who listed CERT as a specialty. CERT status is ambiguous. It is one of those things that Eclipse refers to something like this: it is because CAP calls it, except when it is not, but is. Or something like that.

CERT is not referred in the actual ES regulations as a specialty. So it is a task, or CAP has not decided what role members with it are to have. But a SQTR can be pulled like other ES specialties with the difference that other specialties will produce a SQTR with a place to sign. A CERT SQTR does not show a place to sign. Just like the tasks I mentioned. If you click on them individually at the bottom where it has the following buttons:

Submit        Delete         Clear Selected        Resubmit SQTR        Print ICS 300 SQTR

When you click the last one, it will list it by itself with no space for a signature.

So yes, those are tasks, and I regard CERT as a task because if you print that task by itself the SQTR generated does not allow for signatures. Otherwise I have achieved another ES specialty!

CAPR 60-3, Para. 2-3f disagrees with you. Not only is CERT considered a qualification, Para. 1-17b(3) allows CAP to dispatch CERT teams.

[Eclipse]

allows CAP to dispatch CERT teams.

Yeah, apparently there's aircrew wings, too.

No doctrine, no rules.  Just "do it".  Nike should be a sponsor.

[JeffDG]

Camas, you do not understand sarcasm!

I am well aware those are tasks. It was a response to Lord who listed CERT as a specialty. CERT status is ambiguous. It is one of those things that Eclipse refers to something like this: it is because CAP calls it, except when it is not, but is. Or something like that.

CERT is not referred in the actual ES regulations as a specialty. So it is a task, or CAP has not decided what role members with it are to have. But a SQTR can be pulled like other ES specialties with the difference that other specialties will produce a SQTR with a place to sign. A CERT SQTR does not show a place to sign. Just like the tasks I mentioned. If you click on them individually at the bottom where it has the following buttons:

Submit        Delete         Clear Selected        Resubmit SQTR        Print ICS 300 SQTR

When you click the last one, it will list it by itself with no space for a signature.

So yes, those are tasks, and I regard CERT as a task because if you print that task by itself the SQTR generated does not allow for signatures. Otherwise I have achieved another ES specialty!

CAPR 60-3, Para. 2-3f disagrees with you. Not only is CERT considered a qualification, Para. 1-17b(3) allows CAP to dispatch CERT teams.

CERT has a "Note 4" in 2-3f, which says it doesn't exist as of the time of the regulation, but is planned.

[Camas]

Camas,you do not understand sarcasm!

You asked a question and I gave an answer. We're all here to help aren't we. And the bold type??  Grow up, junior!

[Eclipse]

CERT has a "Note 4" in 2-3f, which says it doesn't exist as of the time of the regulation, but is planned.

What a mess.

There is no reason that the regs need to be this convoluted and conflicted, except that
CAP has separate camps implementing things piecemeal instead of working together and doing
all the math, including "showing your work".

People here can find these inconsistencies and issues in minutes, yet the OPRs let them fester for years.

There's no timeline to publishing updates beyond someone regenerating a .pdf and pinging
an eServices alert, and the OPRs are now codified as having authority to correct errata.

CC's should not have to make judgement calls on nonsense like this.  So much wasted time.

[Storm Chaser]

Camas, you do not understand sarcasm!

I am well aware those are tasks. It was a response to Lord who listed CERT as a specialty. CERT status is ambiguous. It is one of those things that Eclipse refers to something like this: it is because CAP calls it, except when it is not, but is. Or something like that.

CERT is not referred in the actual ES regulations as a specialty. So it is a task, or CAP has not decided what role members with it are to have. But a SQTR can be pulled like other ES specialties with the difference that other specialties will produce a SQTR with a place to sign. A CERT SQTR does not show a place to sign. Just like the tasks I mentioned. If you click on them individually at the bottom where it has the following buttons:

Submit        Delete         Clear Selected        Resubmit SQTR        Print ICS 300 SQTR

When you click the last one, it will list it by itself with no space for a signature.

So yes, those are tasks, and I regard CERT as a task because if you print that task by itself the SQTR generated does not allow for signatures. Otherwise I have achieved another ES specialty!

CAPR 60-3, Para. 2-3f disagrees with you. Not only is CERT considered a qualification, Para. 1-17b(3) allows CAP to dispatch CERT teams.

CERT has a "Note 4" in 2-3f, which says it doesn't exist as of the time of the regulation, but is planned.

Obviously, the qualification exist and is available in Ops Quals. Note 4 states the following:

New training programs and levels in certain specialties are currently in development...

This was written in generic terms to cover multiple specialties. Is it a contradiction or mistake? Maybe. Or, it could refer to future levels (CERT3/2/1) or an in-house training program. The note, unfortunately, is not clear enough. That said, the OP asked about the ES Patch and the CERT qualification meets the criteria for that patch.

allows CAP to dispatch CERT teams.

Yeah, apparently there's aircrew wings, too.

No doctrine, no rules.  Just "do it".  Nike should be a sponsor.

Unlike the aircrew wings, there is a criteria to earn the CERT qualification and it can be recorded in Ops Quals and the CAPF 101 Card.

I agree that the way this qualification was implemented and the idea of fielding a CERT team in CAP were not be thought out through. Perhaps Note 4 refers to the expectation of the CERT qual being expanded in the future. There are also rumors of a DR qual currently in the works or a revision to the GTM SQTR that would include DR tasks. At this point, I'm not sure what a revision to CAPR 60-3 would look like or how the SQTRs are going to change in the future. But today, if a member's 101 Card says GES and CERT on it, then that member is entitled to the ES Patch.