MRO's days numbered?

[Eclipse]

About two weeks ago, while discussing the upcoming ICUT, the Wing DC mentioned that Mission Radio Operator would be
going away soon, and the CUL quals would be changing as well.

The reasoning being that anyone with ICUT should be capable of the basicv radio operations done by the average MRO.
Anyone else heard that?

I need a requal, but there's no point if this is coming soon.

[arajca]

I hadn't heard that on the DC email list. Maybe something will come at the National Communications Managers' meeting.

[wuzafuzz]

That would be news to me, and I'm a wing DC.  Either I missed it somehow or that's inaccurate.  I do believe the communications curriculum will eventually include a lot more training beyond ICUT, focused on those in the communications specialty track and certain related job assignments.  However I don't think we'll soon realize a demise of MRO's or CUL's.

I would like to see us move closer to the COM-L, COM-T, and RADO desingnators used in ICS, but I haven't heard of any movement in that direction either.

Edited to fix a typo.

[ol'fido]

This is just a symptom to me of the fact that CAP only pays superficial attention to ICS. We either need to go whole hog with ICS(forms and all) or go home. Anyone who has taken the AUXCOMM class from FEMA will tell you that unless you can show up at an incident looking professional and using the proper ICS forms and terminology, you will be asked to go home. BTW, CAP is desribed by FEMA as a "SPECIAL NEEDS ORGANIZATION". Take from that what you will.

[Garibaldi]

BTW, CAP is desribed by FEMA as a "SPECIAL NEEDS ORGANIZATION". Take from that what you will.

I'm glad I have a helmet...

[Extremepredjudice]

BTW, CAP is desribed by FEMA as a "SPECIAL NEEDS ORGANIZATION". Take from that what you will.

Probably because we have short buses vans

[Garibaldi]

BTW, CAP is desribed by FEMA as a "SPECIAL NEEDS ORGANIZATION". Take from that what you will.

Probably because we have short buses vans

since WHEN is a 15-pack a short van???

[denverpilot]

BTW, CAP is desribed by FEMA as a "SPECIAL NEEDS ORGANIZATION". Take from that what you will.

Probably because we have short buses vans

since WHEN is a 15-pack a short van???

When you compare it to stuff like this, which are pretty much ubiquitous in Public Safety these days...



(Copied from a random website full of photos of the things...  http://www.mbfindustries.com/ )

Here's JUST the Denver Airport's toys...



And two tiny people in front who apparently were involved in spending all that money, but are so small in the photo, you'd only know who they are if you knew them personally.

Those are not short vans.

[Eclipse]

No - those are very expensive tactikewl RVs.  Uber sweet, but unnecessary for CAP.

[denverpilot]

No - those are very expensive tactikewl RVs.  Uber sweet, but unnecessary for CAP.

Unnecessary for most of the folks that have them, actually.

It was just a continuation of the short bus joke.

And a minor additional observation that they show up with an RV, a cache of radios, chargers, satellite Internet access, air conditioning (ha!), generators, laptops pre-loaded, programming cables, software, and all tools to re-task, etc...

And we show up with 10 folks in a van, one mobile radio, and maybe a handheld. Oh, and a 100W HF.

There's a point where even if we don't truly *need* certain things, showing up looking like that is going to get you looked down on. Deserved or undeserved.

The reaction is, "How quaint!" from those with budgets.

They're playing on a different playing field. I know. About five orders of magnitude bigger budgets, too.

Thus, just my contribution to "special needs" joking around. We often LOOK like we're riding the short bus, whether that is our intention or not.

Best to be on your game big-time, when showing up looking like the red-headed budgetary step-child. Just about every County here has a rolling big box, as well as numerous Federal and State agencies, and as evidenced by the above photo, one major airport has *four* of them...

[Eclipse]

And we show up with 10 folks in a van, one mobile radio, and maybe a handheld. Oh, and a 100W HF.

Maybe in your wing...

[Garibaldi]

No - those are very expensive tactikewl RVs.  Uber sweet, but unnecessary for CAP.

WIWG has a Winnebago(?) they use for a tactical command post. Comes in handy for EAA and the WIWG REDCAP.

[Eclipse]

SARKID's ears just perked up...

[denverpilot]

Maybe in your wing...

Heh. Perhaps. The point being that's the perception, sometimes. 

I have access to an ex-Air Force equivalent of a TV News van and have brought it out to play a couple of times (right now, the darn thing blew a compressor and needs repairs, and the former owners lashed the power leads in so short that pulling the compressor power lines will require tearing out part of a wall)...

The pneumatic mast comes in darn handy at some locations. When it's operable. (Grumble... going to have to help the owner fix that...)

...and our DC is hoping to fund a multi-use trailer through his squadron funds.

But there's no National fleet of similar vehicles to what crowds the closest parking lot, at any major multi-agency event these days. You can't swing a dead cat without hitting 10 commercially-built heavy duty Command/Communications vehicles at any serious event anymore.

One Amateur Radio group around here with admittedly an over-abundance of former Public Safety folk, has built three trailers for Communications in the last four years or so... two of which were sold to government agencies, one to a neighbor-State DHS group, and another to neighboring-State Emergency Services agency. 

They were built VERY well. No expense spared, and the proceeds from each went into buying the next one.  Bigger and better equipped each time. Nice setups. 

I have neither the personal assets to front such a project nor the time off work necessary to build one.

Sorry to drag the thread off topic. It was mostly just kidding around.  I don't expect CAP to show up as well-equipped as those folks.

One can dream, though.

[Garibaldi]

SARKID's ears just perked up...

Meh, I'm sure he knows about it. It's been around for a long while.

[Eclipse]

That's not what I meant - he's BTDT, worked it.  (I've been there, was told to go away and had to sleep next to the !@#$ generator all night).

[wuzafuzz]

Heck, even that low budget multi-use trailer is feeling like a pipe dream lately.  I think we'll be nomadic CUL's and MRO's for the foreseeable future.    every day is field day around here!

[arajca]

Best to be on your game big-time, when showing up looking like the red-headed budgetary step-child. Just about every County here has a rolling big box, as well as numerous Federal and State agencies, and as evidenced by the above photo, one major airport has *four* of them...

However, once you leave the big city lights, they aren't prevelent. My county, only 70 mi away from DenverPilot's turf, doesn't have one. We have a 10' hicube former Hazmat command post that the Hazmat team retired and the county took in exchange for a 4x4 ambulance they were retiring.

If you keep going out, the next comm rv mobile communications center, Type 1, is another 200 miles.

And some of those agencies put up so many obstacles, er, conditions, that the units seldom leave the city limits.

[Larry Mangum]

Communications training is being updated. ICUT was just the beginning. next year, we hope to be teaching, what I understand will be basically, a Comm Managers course at NESA.

[Woodsy]

FLWG has several camper type trailers used for comms and command trailers.  They have radio racks with several VHF, aviation, HF, CAP, and all sorts of other stuff. Satellite voice and date capabilities.  Self powered via generator when a hook up is not available.  Nice office and work areas.  Fridge to keep stuff in, AC to keep you cool.  They do not have sleeping quarters.   Nothing self propelled.  We also have access to a couple owned by various local governments, but I'm sure in a large-scale response, they'd be using it themselves. 

[Luis R. Ramos]

Woodsy-

What makes you think the AC in those vans are for people? In any data environment, the primary concern is the equipment! All those radios, computers, etc. generate heat!

[arajca]

Communications training is being updated. ICUT was just the beginning. next year, we hope to be teaching, what I understand will be basically, a Comm Managers course at NESA.

Will those materials be double-top secret as well?

[jeders]

Communications training is being updated. ICUT was just the beginning. next year, we hope to be teaching, what I understand will be basically, a Comm Managers course at NESA.

Will those materials be double-top secret as well?

Are you kidding, this is comm. The material will be quadruple ultra secret at least. Even the guys in the black vans from national won't have access to that stuff. 

[Eclipse]

Info will only be released via encrypted packet connections, of course the keys are FOUO, so...

[Larry Mangum]

I am speaking purely for myself here, but it is my understanding, that the stated goal of the upcoming changes are to create a more professional communication mindset within CAP. 

[arajca]

I am speaking purely for myself here, but it is my understanding, that the stated goal of the upcoming changes are to create a more professional communication mindset within CAP.

That may be the goal, but the folks at NESA/LESA do not want anyone to use what they have. I've asked for information to develop a local (my wing) comm school using the same lesson plans as they use to reduce duplication of work and make sure what is done locally is the same as what is being done in Indiana and Texas, only to be told that I need to go to those places before they will discuss what being done. I dont have the time or money to do that so I just dropped the whole idea of a wing comm school. This is addition to the historical "You're not one of the chosen" mentality the folks writing this stuff have. I dropped out of the FEMA Master Trainer program because of the total lack of support or information those folks were willing to provide.

[Eclipse]

That must be a "comm thing", as the air and ground SAR curriculum are posted publicly and if anything wings are encouraged to
use them.

Pilot programs aside, an activity purported to be the "standard" for ES training nationally should be shielding their curriculm from outside use. 

[♠SARKID♠]

SARKID's ears just perked up...

You know me too well.

That's not what I meant - he's BTDT, worked it.  (I've been there, was told to go away and had to sleep next to the !@#$ generator all night).

Our fort.  Our rules.  Cool kids only. 

[Eclipse]

Man I wish I could find that photo that showed the word "mobile" spelled wrong on the side! 

Did you get a beacon for that antenna yet?

[♠SARKID♠]

Man I wish I could find that photo that showed the word "mobile" spelled wrong on the side! 

Did you get a beacon for that antenna yet?

Didn't know we were looking for one.  We'll probably just duct tape a cadet to the top and torch him.

BTW, I drive it now. 

[Garibaldi]

SARKID's ears just perked up...

You know me too well.

That's not what I meant - he's BTDT, worked it.  (I've been there, was told to go away and had to sleep next to the !@#$ generator all night).

Our fort.  Our rules.  Cool kids only. 

That's a different one than I remember.

[♠SARKID♠]

That's a different one than I remember.

Orca 1 burned down; under-body caught fire on the freeway about four or five years ago.  That's Orca 2.

[JeffDG]

Info will only be released via encrypted packet connections, of course the keys are FOUO, so...

The info will be transmitted encrypted on a one-time-pad, with only one copy made of the pad, with the pad being immediately destroyed.

[a2capt]

Then why copy it, just hand it over?

[RogueLeader]

Then why copy it, just hand it over?

That makes too much sense.  Ergo. . .

[ol'fido]

Man I wish I could find that photo that showed the word "mobile" spelled wrong on the side! 

Did you get a beacon for that antenna yet?

Didn't know we were looking for one.  We'll probably just duct tape a cadet to the top and torch him.

BTW, I drive it now. 

Apparently, you have some experience with RST- Required Staff Torture.

[ol'fido]

Down here in Benton, IL, we are the home to Mobile Support Unit-South. It is one of the mobile command posts like Denver had in his post. The decision to base it here was strategic....

....We had the only fire station with an empty bay and large enough doors in the area.

[denverpilot]

FLWG has several camper type trailers used for comms and command trailers.  They have radio racks with several VHF, aviation, HF, CAP, and all sorts of other stuff. Satellite voice and date capabilities.  Self powered via generator when a hook up is not available.  Nice office and work areas.  Fridge to keep stuff in, AC to keep you cool.  They do not have sleeping quarters.   Nothing self propelled.  We also have access to a couple owned by various local governments, but I'm sure in a large-scale response, they'd be using it themselves.

He said "several"...

(As I drift off into a daydream...)

And he said there's agencies somewhere that share equipment...

(As I wipe drool from my shirt from my mouth hanging open...)

He said "satellite"....

(Some time later I came to after apparently passing out, and hit send on this post...)

Heh heh.

:-)

(arajca's comments about "conditions" applies heavily... some of these things sit parked in locked areas and haven't left them for anything but the Democratic National Convention years ago, and the occasional photo op... I had occasion to bring up the use of one city's truck during planning for an event years ago, because it had all the gear for Interop that was needed, and the folks who worked for the department that owned it started laughing out loud at the idea... "The Chief never lets that thing out of the yard. No way." Not even parked in a park dead center of their jurisdiction could it be brought out. Would have given the TV trucks something to shoot as a backdrop... Ha... Oh well...)

[wuzafuzz]

That must be a "comm thing", as the air and ground SAR curriculum are posted publicly and if anything wings are encouraged to use them.

It shouldn't be a "comm thing" but that mind set certainly exists in some places.  Refusing to share useful information that could benefit all of CAP is pretty weak.  Fortunately that approach isn't universal.  Some time back I made a job aid for portable repeaters.  It was advertised for sharing on the CAP-DC list and there were a lot of takers.  With any luck someone has improved it.  I don't care about being credited for it, I just hope it's been useful to a lot of people.  Hopefully others are doing the same.

There is little reason for comm to be secretive.  Aside from the FOUO status of our frequencies, we can freely blab about most comm stuff unless a specific mission requires discretion.  I brag about CAP Comm whenever I can; we need more communicators.  No secret handshake required.

[wuzafuzz]

I had occasion to bring up the use of one city's truck during planning for an event years ago, because it had all the gear for Interop that was needed, and the folks who worked for the department that owned it started laughing out loud at the idea... "The Chief never lets that thing out of the yard. No way." Not even parked in a park dead center of their jurisdiction could it be brought out. Would have given the TV trucks something to shoot as a backdrop... Ha... Oh well...)

Well, they couldn't risk the TV cameras filming what really happens inside those impressive command posts:
EVIL LAUGH / Dr Evil's Laughing Scene

[Garibaldi]

That's a different one than I remember.

Orca 1 burned down; under-body caught fire on the freeway about four or five years ago.  That's Orca 2.

Ah yes...Orca. Spent many an EAA Precautionary in it at Fond du Lac...

[flyboy53]

This is just a symptom to me of the fact that CAP only pays superficial attention to ICS. We either need to go whole hog with ICS(forms and all) or go home. Anyone who has taken the AUXCOMM class from FEMA will tell you that unless you can show up at an incident looking professional and using the proper ICS forms and terminology, you will be asked to go home. BTW, CAP is desribed by FEMA as a "SPECIAL NEEDS ORGANIZATION". Take from that what you will.

Agreed. Especially when CERT would be more used in an emergency than a ground team.

[Eclipse]

Where?

[wuzafuzz]

About two weeks ago, while discussing the upcoming ICUT, the Wing DC mentioned that Mission Radio Operator would be
going away soon, and the CUL quals would be changing as well.

The reasoning being that anyone with ICUT should be capable of the basicv radio operations done by the average MRO.
Anyone else heard that?

I need a requal, but there's no point if this is coming soon.

I missed a lot of the National Communicators Meeting yesterday, due to technical difficulties with the stream.  However, I did hear through a third party that MRO is in fact going to be replaced by RDO3, 2, and 1.  (Guessing we are borrowing from the RADO role in ICS.)  Further, CUL will be changed to a tiered structure with level 3, 2, and 1 ratings.  Meeting notes are supposed to be released fairly soon.  No idea on the timing of the changes to the ratings.  Is there anyone else on here who knows more?

[Eclipse]

That's essentially exactly what I had heard.

[arajca]

About two weeks ago, while discussing the upcoming ICUT, the Wing DC mentioned that Mission Radio Operator would be
going away soon, and the CUL quals would be changing as well.

The reasoning being that anyone with ICUT should be capable of the basicv radio operations done by the average MRO.
Anyone else heard that?

I need a requal, but there's no point if this is coming soon.

I missed a lot of the National Communicators Meeting yesterday, due to technical difficulties with the stream.  However, I did hear through a third party that MRO is in fact going to be replaced by RDO3, 2, and 1.  (Guessing we are borrowing from the RADO role in ICS.)  Further, CUL will be changed to a tiered structure with level 3, 2, and 1 ratings.  Meeting notes are supposed to be released fairly soon.  No idea on the timing of the changes to the ratings.  Is there anyone else on here who knows more?

Hmmm. Might need to design a new badge...









Three pages and no uniforms mentioned - gots to maintain standards

[RogueLeader]

You mean I'm going to have to retrain to keep my MRO.  Or that it will transfer into the new designation.

Three pages and no uniforms mentioned - gots to maintain standards

What Standards?

[arajca]

You mean I'm going to have to retrain to keep my MRO.  Or that it will transfer into the new designation.

Good question. No answer. The training cabal committee hasn't released any information other than planned to happen.

[sardak]

I would like to see us move closer to the COM-L, COM-T, and RADO desingnators used in ICS...I did hear through a third party that MRO is in fact going to be replaced by RDO3, 2, and 1. (Guessing we are borrowing from the RADO role in ICS.) Further, CUL will be changed to a tiered structure with level 3, 2, and 1 ratings.

RADO (radio operator) is no more ICS than MRO or CUL or MP or...whatever. You won't find RADO or radio operator in any ICS or NIMS documentation. RADO is a position created within the wildland fire community by the National Wildfire Coordinating Group (NWCG). In NWCG's Wildland Fire Qualification System Guide, better know by its document number 310-1, RADO is listed as an incident support function, not an ICS position. NWCG also created airbase radio operator (ABRO), comm tech (COMT), incident communications center manager (INCM) and of course, communications unit leader (COML). The 310-1 does list the latter three as ICS positions, although the only one on the "book solution" ICS org chart is COML, but hey, ICS allows flexibility. Changing MRO to RDO is change for change sake, as is creating levels.

Is it really necessary to create tiered structures for RDO and CUL, or is CAP just trying to sound NIMS-ish again, like with GTM and IC? Neither of these, as they are, have the need for levels, i.e. typing. From FEMA, "Resource typing is categorizing, by capability, the resources requested, deployed and used in incidents. Measurable standards identifying resource capabilities and performance levels serve as the basis for typing." These changes are just more ratings to fill the 101 card. (merit badges for the sash)

Mike

[ol'fido]

My own personal opinion is that we should have:

Mission Radio Operator(MRO): Basically, can pick up the radio and talk on it. Could be a secondary qual for mission base staff not directly assigned to comms who may need to pick up a radio and use it every now and then. Could also be used on flight line, high bird, and ground team. The ground team MRO would be either the non-GTM qualified van driver(who stays with the van) or an additional MRO(who also stays with the van) if a GTL or GTM is the van driver.

Mission Communicator(MC): This would be someone who has trained specifically for communications and basically has all the knowledge and quals of someone with a Tech rating in communications. Although, the MC would generally work base comms, they could be sent out with two or three MROs to set up a remote relay station or portable repeater.

Communications Leader(COML): Supervises the entire Comm Unit. Basically, what we have now with a CUL.

[wuzafuzz]

Is it really necessary to create tiered structures for RDO and CUL, or is CAP just trying to sound NIMS-ish again, like with GTM and IC?

I don't see much need for multiple levels in the radio operator role, but I do believe additional levels for CUL (or whatever it's called this week) can be useful.  The bar for CUL is exceptionally low, but many in CAP believe CUL to be a necessary role for most scheduled activities.  The skill set needed to effectively run comm for a squadron bivouac is worlds away from that needed to excel in communications at a wing OPSEVAL, large scale incident, or incident involving non-CAP players.  The current SQTR for CUL doesn't recognize a difference, nor does it encourage anything more than minimal talent.

Of course they could also rebuild the single CUL SQTR to something more meaningful, rescind all current CUL quals, and make us all prove our mettle once more.

Seriously, communications is one of the most common gripes at incidents, events, and exercices in many disciplines.  Everyone benefits if our communicators have more than half a clue.

[wuzafuzz]

It would also be nice to see an increased emphasis on communications technical skills.  Most CUL's I've met will completely vapor lock if they are asked to use a soldering iron, wattmeter, or volt meter.  Those tools are necessary for basic setup and troubleshooting at a comm unit of any size. 

Whether those skills should be required of a CUL vs. MRO vs some new qual is another discussion.

[arajca]

It would also be nice to see an increased emphasis on communications technical skills.  Most CUL's I've met will completely vapor lock if they are asked to use a soldering iron, wattmeter, or volt meter.  Those tools are necessary for basic setup and troubleshooting at a comm unit of any size. 

Whether those skills should be required of a CUL vs. MRO vs some new qual is another discussion.

I believe, but could be wrong, they are looking at a COM-T position.
RDO# - sets up and operates the radios
COM-T - sets up radios, troubleshoots equipment, and fixes things
CUL - Manages the network, does planning (ICS205), and supervises

Most CULs do not have access to or training on that type of equipment.

[jhsmith400]

Having had more than 20 years in emergency communications, I say that no one at a mission base should be soldering on equipment anyway, that should be reserved for the refit areas.  Plug and play redundant backups should be ready at all times.  With the new focus on disasters don't get me started on folks using travel trailers for the only communications center.  All this being said the CUL's should spend their time planning and setting up comm. routines and such and the setting up of equipment should be someone else.

[Eclipse]

Having had more than 20 years in emergency communications, I say that no one at a mission base should be soldering on equipment anyway, that should be reserved for the refit areas.  Plug and play redundant backups should be ready at all times.  With the new focus on disasters don't get me started on folks using travel trailers for the only communications center.  All this being said the CUL's should spend their time planning and setting up comm. routines and such and the setting up of equipment should be someone else.

+1

One of the identified issues with the way comms were trained was that far too much time was spent on the technical aspects, and far too little time
on the user aspects.

A normal user of a CAP radio has no more need to know how it works then a normal email user needs to know what TCPIP is.

[wuzafuzz]

Having had more than 20 years in emergency communications, I say that no one at a mission base should be soldering on equipment anyway, that should be reserved for the refit areas.  Plug and play redundant backups should be ready at all times.  With the new focus on disasters don't get me started on folks using travel trailers for the only communications center.  All this being said the CUL's should spend their time planning and setting up comm. routines and such and the setting up of equipment should be someone else.

+1

One of the identified issues with the way comms were trained was that far too much time was spent on the technical aspects, and far too little time
on the user aspects.

A normal user of a CAP radio has no more need to know how it works then a normal email user needs to know what TCPIP is.

True, a "normal user" has no need to know those things.  The folks who need to setup power supplies, antennas, feed line, etc DO need to know those things or they are not serving their internal customers.  I've seen comm (and radios) fail because people connected our high quality radios to bad feed line or antennas.  There are simple tests to avoid those problems.  Sure, the folks with comm vehicles or fixed installations can just flip the power on, but those of us who live as gypsies should be checking every time we setup the toys we are trusted with.

I don't care if it's the CUL, the MRO, or a crossing guard, but someone needs to be able to do those things.

[Brad]

Agreed. Are radio repair skills handy to have? Sure. But if you don't qualify under 100-1 then you're SOL, even if you have a ton of ham experience or such. Besides, with the emphasis on national standardization (EF-Johnsons and the Astrons with the built-in radio slot) are making base radios more and more plug and play. Going NORDO for an extended amount of time (and yes I consider cracking open a radio to do a quick solder "extended amount of time") is a Very Bad Thing.

Example: when our base radios mess up at work (I dispatch for my state highway patrol) we immediately jump to a backup radio, or switch to a handheld. Sure we'll have the techs come and take a look, but that's a non-critical priority. Your critical priority should be 100% comms uptime.

[Eclipse]

Yes, someone needs to know, just not the operators.

Pilots don't fix the planes, drivers don't fix the cars, and radio ops don't repair radios.

[Fubar]

Yes, someone needs to know, just not the operators.

I think that was the point expressed. A MRO should have enough technical skills to turn the radio on, know the difference between digital and analog, and which button to push to talk.

There is a need for someone who understands basic radio theory in order to hook up radios to antennas and power supplies, understand SWR, and perhaps the concept of a NVIS antenna. Given the technical aspects of the old ACUT test, and that ACUT was required for CUL, it would seem right now those responsibilities fall upon the CUL, yet CUL is a managerial position that should not be concerned with grunt work. Personally, I'd like to see some sort of MRO-TECH qualification to help ensure someone setting up a radio at a mission base or temporary location has at least a little bit of training behind them.

[cap235629]

As a DC one of my biggest aggravations is the the (forgive me) HAM mindset.  Our communications system is designed around operations as opposed to theory.  99% of our communications are handled by people who need to know "what channel am I on"  "What channel am I supposed to be on to contact...insert callsign or functional designator here...." and which button do I push to talk to...insert callsign here..."

Fort too long CAP communications has thought of itself as a mission as opposed to a support function to accomplish a mission.

Maybe I am just an old cranky cop but propagation means jack to me, I just want the radio to work...

That being said, I feel my job as DC is to ensure that CAP commanders have the ability to communicate to units in the field as needed, regardless of the situation.

My boss leads me to believe that I am accomplishing this task..


KISS

Enough said.....

[Fubar]

As a DC one of my biggest aggravations is the the (forgive me) HAM mindset.

Oh definitely. I've been through too many BCUT classes where the instructor starts talking about wavelengths and sub-audible tones. We also seem to have an issue where all the comm guys want the comm gear, instead of issuing it to ground team leaders and ICs.

But we do need people who know how to setup an antenna, why some wires are black and others are red, and other skills that are slightly technical.

[wuzafuzz]

Doing communications right, for the long haul, means we employ a variety of skill sets.  End users like aircrews and ground teams need their stuff to work and have other things to worry about than technical comm stuff.  MRO's are all about passing messages effectively and require little hardware "tech mojo.".

Right or wrong, CAP has chosen to house the management AND basic technical skills with CUL's.  They are part of the SQTR and associated task guides. 

It appears CAP is moving to separate the management from the technical tasks.  I think that's a good thing.  Technical skills are only one small part of the pie, but they are important to ensure we properly support our internal customers.  Ignore them long enough and things won't work properly.  Eventually missions will be affected and communications becomes a favorite scapegoat.

[SarDragon]

When the proposed new comm structure hit the street oh so many years ago, this chart showed all the new positions.

[jhsmith400]

We, in CAP, seem to have an issue with issuing guidelines for positions first then catching the training up later.  Separate is the way to go one operational position and other positions to take care to doing the tasks and to take care of the stuff.  I've heard the comment oh we can't have back ups since we don't have the equipment, at the same time radios are being issued to any and all.  The radios are assets for the good of the whole not as personal toys to sling on your belt to look more "mission operational".  The sooner many in our little "playgroups" admit this the better for all, not that any on here would ever do this.