Fitting CAP Funeral Formalities

[Nomex Maximus]

I never really thought that I'd have to consider anyone in our organization needing to consider such details but this past week's loss got me to think about it. Tell me what you all think.

1) A CAP-style flyover. No fighter jets, but CAP Cessnas - four of them in a sort of a formation. In CAP colors, and preferably with one of them having the wrong decals. Get an exemption to the rules for it. One plane from the wing that lost the members, one plane each from adjacent wings to show solidarity. They will overfly the cemetery one after another - the lead plane will fly directly over the site at slow cruise 10 degrees of flap at 1000 feet, then the next plane will follow 20 seconds behind and offest to the left of the lead. The third plane will follow 20 seconds behind the second and offset to the right and finally the last plane will approach 20 seconds later, centered, and will power up to full throttle over the site and make a sharp turn to the left and begin a climb away from the area.

2) The proper uniform for the funeral should be (nice clean) BDUs, BBDUs and flightsuits (but not utility bags). We were SAR people and we should dress like what we were doing. Dress like we are ready to go out and do it again.

3) Cadet honor guards.

4) CAP chaplain (in BDU) to deliver a fitting talk about the mission and its value to the people who served.

--Nomex

[jimmydeanno]

I don't know if this thread is in jest or not, but I don't think that attending someones funeral in BDUs is at all appropriate.  Why not just wear cut off jeans and a t-shirt.

If I were someones next of kin and all those around me were wearing their "utility" uniforms, I think I would be rather insulted, insulted in the fact that the people who show up are supposed to be paying their last respects.  How respectful is it to wear those uniforms, no matter how "clean and pressed" you make them.

Someones funeral is not the time or the place to wear the BDU, BBDU, or flight suit.  Service dress would be the appropriate uniform, IMO.

When a firefighter loses their life, those who attend do not wear their firesuits with oxygen tank and galoshes...

And don't you think it a little more appropriate to talk about the person, rather than pitch how important CAP Sar is...

[Nomex Maximus]

Thread is not in jest.

This is how I'd want it done for me if it were for me. The readiness to serve again is what validates the uniform.

[ColonelJack]

I never really thought that I'd have to consider anyone in our organization needing to consider such details but this past week's loss got me to think about it. Tell me what you all think.

As an old Chinese friend of mine says, "Be careful what you ask for; you just might get it."

1) A CAP-style flyover. No fighter jets, but CAP Cessnas - four of them in a sort of a formation. In CAP colors, and with one of them having the wrong decals . Get an exemption to the rules for it. One plane from the wing that lost the members, one plane each from adjacent wings to show solidarity. They will overfly the cemetery one after another - the lead plane will fly directly over the site at slow cruise 10 degrees of flap at 1000 feet, then the next plane will follow 20 seconds behind and offest to the left of the lead. The third plane will follow 20 seconds behind the second and offset to the right and finally the last plane will approach 20 seconds later, centered, and will power up to full throttle over the site and make a sharp turn to the left and begin a climb away from the area.

A trifle expensive, wouldn't you say, to change an aircraft's decals just for a funeral?  I like the idea of a flyover -- we're the AF Auxiliary and they do flyovers with jets, so we should do something similar.  The distribution of aircraft within a wing (and region) may make the logistics of the plan somewhat difficult, though.  The idea of four aircraft from different wings may not even be feasible, given the realities of budgets, etc.

2) The proper uniform for the funeral should be BDUs, BBDUs and flightsuits. We were SAR people and we should dress like what we were doing. Dress like we are ready to go out and do it again.

This one made me wonder if you were writing to be humorous or not.  BDUs or BBDUs are never, never, never acceptable for a funeral!  It is a solemn and (normally) very formal occasion.  Yes, we are SAR people.  But we are ALSO cadet program people and aerospace education people -- and they don't always wear field uniforms.  I would only agree with this part if the AF (and the rest of the military) does funerals the same way.  I've been to more than a dozen military-style funerals in my life and I've never seen the services represented in anything but service dress (Class A's, if you will).  We shouldn't do anything different.

3) Cadet honor guards.

I like the idea, but a funeral is an extremely emotional time for the family, so make sure the cadets have received adequate training in the details of a military-style funeral.  It has to be done right the first time; when you are dealing with a funeral and the family of the deceased, there are no do-overs.

4) CAP chaplain (in BDU) to deliver a fitting talk about the mission and its value.

Good idea except for one thing -- NEVER wear anything but service dress to a funeral.  BDUs or BBDUs or flight suits are work uniforms.  Would you wear work clothes to a funeral?  I hope not -- I certainly wouldn't.  I'd wear a suit and tie.  So should the chaplain -- the suit and tie in AF blue, whether it has three or six buttons on the front.

At first I thought this was something meant to be funny -- and if it was, it was pretty good, and you may have a future in comedy writing.    But then I realized you were serious, so I responded in a serious vein.

We should have a CAP funeral protocol; that I agree with.  And I like a lot of what you propose, though logistically it may not be possible.  The idea of wearing BDUs or BBDUs, however, is D.O.A. -- at least with me.

Jack

[mikeylikey]

Sorry......my vote is no.  I have to agree wearing BDU's or anything other than a suit and pants is HUGELY inappropriate.  That is not OUR culture.  The American way is a suit, sports jacket, blazer and appropriate pants.

[mikeylikey]

Doesn't the AF have a reg or manual how to do funerals.  I doubt it allows BDU's flight suits. 

If we go on the original posters reasoning, I should wear a flightsuit to the upcoming wedding of a CAP Pilot........... right???

[Pylon]

This is how I'd want it done for me if it were for me.

And you can always state your personal wishes in your funeral plans, of course.  However...

The readiness to serve again is what validates the uniform.

The USAF is much more "ready to fight" and constantly doing it.  They also regularly wear their flight suits and BDUs when performing their jobs... much more than most CAP members ever will.    However, they don't dress in field uniforms at military funerals; service dress is the standard and for good reason.

As I said above, if the individual has other preferences, they can make those known, but otherwise stick with the standard (which is a standard for good reason) and wear service dress.

Of course, that hinges on whether the individual and/or his family even wants CAP presence at their funeral.  There are plenty of individuals who don't consider CAP to be the defining hallmark of their life and would prefer to have a regular funeral just like everyone else.

[Nomex Maximus]

Colonel Jack -

I respect your opinions.

The comment about the decals was a small jest.

I do think BDUs are what *I* would want people to wear to MY funeral. BTW, I sincerely hope that I will never need a CAP funeral.

If cadets are too young to deal with a funeral honor guard, then so be it. I however think that the right cadets would learn much from such an experience.

We are not the "real military" and should have some latitude for establishing out own culture. Just my opinion.

Mikey -

This is completely different from a wedding.

As a former police officer I can tell you that the appropriate uniform for most police funerals would be the regular patrol uniform.

Pylon -

My suggestions assume that the family(s) wanted a CAP presence and understand the intent of the honors offered.

The point of all this is to honor the fallen.

--Nomex

[DogCollar]

Doesn't the AF have a reg or manual how to do funerals.  I doubt it allows BDU's flight suits. 

If we go on the original posters reasoning, I should wear a flightsuit to the upcoming wedding of a CAP Pilot........... right???

There are regulations for a military style funeral in Chaplaincy Service Manuel 221.

[Nomex Maximus]

There are regulations for a military style funeral in Chaplaincy Service Manuel 221.

Change the regulations to better suit the needs of the circumstances.

We are civilians living in a democracy.

--Nomex

[RogueLeader]

I understand why you'd want the CAP members to be in utilities, and if it were your funeral- and you requested it that way, fine.  I do believe that it is WAY more respectful to show up in full Service Dress- or as much as you can.  To me, the full Service Dress- including Service Coat and Service Cap is a visible expression of what they meant to you.  I wear BDU's most often, so it doesn't mean much to me.  The Full Service Dress, I wear that very rarely, because there is not much that needs that level.
As just having a relative die last week, I would be VERY upset if someone from an organization that he was involved in, came in jeans/T-shirt.

Just as an aside, just because that the idea is how you would like it to be, doesn't mean most want it to be.

The Fly Over is a good idea though, just forget the decal thing though.

[ColonelJack]

Colonel Jack -

I respect your opinions.

You honor me, sir.  Thank you.

The comment about the decals was a small jest.

I thought so.  Pretty good one, too.

I do think BDUs are what *I* would want people to wear to MY funeral. BTW, I sincerely hope that I will never need a CAP funeral.

I hope you'll never need one as well; the few CAP funerals I've attended have been for members who passed away of natural causes or illness, not line-of-duty deaths.  And the CAP presence was in service dress or civilian suits.  I would suggest that you have your own plans drawn up requesting members in BDUs or BBDUs should such be necessary; I seriously doubt that the prevailing culture of our organization would go in that direction as the norm, however.

If cadets are too young to deal with a funeral honor guard, then so be it. I however think that the right cadets would learn much from such an experience.

I agree.  But as I said before, there are no do-overs.  It would have to be right the first time; thus the need for training in both the protocols and the sensitivity issues involved.

We are not the "real military" and should have some latitude for establishing out own culture. Just my opinion.

Again, I agree -- in fact, I've said we're not the RealMilitary™ for a long time.  But our own culture should be a reflection of society at large and the segment of the military we identify with, and they don't allow BDUs, flightsuits, or any other work utility uniform as the UoD for a funeral.  As before, if you want it at your final services, that's great, and if I am in the area should it be necessary (and I pray it never is), I'll follow your wishes.  My funeral will be a military-CAP event, as is my right both as a veteran and a retired CAP member.  I expect service dress at mine.  (That's what I'll be wearing.)

Jack

[Nomex Maximus]

Colonel Jack -

My suggestions here are meant for the funeral of CAP members who died in the line of duty, not for the (thankfully) more common reasons of natural causes. The suggestions assume a person whose part-time passion was serving his or her country in CAP.

Proposed guidance to wear the BDU does not equal a suggestion for others to dress in jeans, etc. and furthermore, the guidance would be a *suggested* uniform, not a required uniform. If the fellow members are more comfortable in dress uniform or civilian clothing so be it. The point is to honor the fallen for what they were doing when they fell.

And, ultimately the whole point of a funeral is to help the survivors cope with the loss of their loved one. My hope here is to find a way that helps validate to them what their lost one was doing.

--Nomex

[Skyray]

There is a traditional flyover for funerals and memorial services.  It is called the "Missing Man" formation, and I have seen it way too many times.  Execution varies, but basically it is a standard four man with the section on the right and the leader's wingman on the left.  As the formation passes over the funeral scene, preferably on an easterly heading, the section wingman peals off and "Flies West."  Very symbolic, and very emotional, I got a little choked up just remembering the times I have seen it executed.  There is a regulatory problem with the formation; in the Coast Guard Auxiliary it requires a waiver from either the Director of Auxiliary or the District Commandant.  I don't know if a waiver is even possible for the CAP.

[JohnKachenmeister]

OK, I did NOT look this up, so don't crucify me if I am wrong, but...

If I recall 60-1 accurately, CAP formation flights require approval from National and (by FAA regs) concurrence of all PIC's in the formation.  I think 60-1 also requires appropriate training in formation flight before the flight can be approved.

I have always thought that a flyover, if not by a formation and a traditional "Missing Man" maneuver, then a flyover by a single aircraft, would be appropriate for a CAP officer's funeral.

[Stonewall]

I have not personally seen a CAP flyover, but I have seen, with my own eyes, a large framed photograph (not a painting) of 4 CAP aircraft doing a formation flyover.  A friend of mine was involved with it in IN wing some time ago.  Maybe late 80s or early 90s.

Being a member of the Old Guard (Army's Honor Guard) for a couple years, I attended (marched) in a few funerals, some for "in the line of duty".  Never saw anyone show up in anything other than their services version of the "CLASS A" uniform.

At my funeral, I would expect people to dress appropriately.  However, at my "death party", clothes need not be required.  In my official "Record of Emergency Data" for the Air Force I have in the remarks section at the end...

In addition to my family, please notify SrA Tom Culpepper, a PJ at Nellis AFB and 1LT Colin Greata in the 82nd Airborne Division out of Ft. Bragg.  I'm asking permission that they be granted leave regardless of their deployment status. 

I Hereby order a party be thrown in the event of my death.  Friends, drinking buddies, coworkers, former girlfriends, members of the unit, fellow soldiers and neighbors should all attend.  Sell all my gear, weapons, and surfboards to fund this event.  Yes, I'm serious.


I certify that the information that I have provided is true and correct to the best of my knowledge. I also understand providing false information may be used for administrative, criminal, or other adverse actions.

[Grumpy]

"I agree.  But as I said before, there are no do-overs.  It would have to be right the first time; thus the need for training in both the protocols and the sensitivity issues involved."

Colonel Jack, I agree with what you say.  In my squadron we have been very lucky.  Our cadet color guard has been to the National Competition 5 times (took first twice and third once).  The Army Reserve unit we meet at has used them to post their colors at a change of command ceremony.  At the request of the father of a soldier killed in Iraq, they were used to fold the flag.
The one star at the ceremony approached them after the service and said that, at first, he was concerned about using them but after seeing their professionalism, he was proud to have them and he gave them all a challenge coin.

So, yes, with the right cadets it can be done.

[LtCol White]

I never really thought that I'd have to consider anyone in our organization needing to consider such details but this past week's loss got me to think about it. Tell me what you all think.

1) A CAP-style flyover. No fighter jets, but CAP Cessnas - four of them in a sort of a formation. In CAP colors, and preferably with one of them having the wrong decals. Get an exemption to the rules for it. One plane from the wing that lost the members, one plane each from adjacent wings to show solidarity. They will overfly the cemetery one after another - the lead plane will fly directly over the site at slow cruise 10 degrees of flap at 1000 feet, then the next plane will follow 20 seconds behind and offest to the left of the lead. The third plane will follow 20 seconds behind the second and offset to the right and finally the last plane will approach 20 seconds later, centered, and will power up to full throttle over the site and make a sharp turn to the left and begin a climb away from the area.

2) The proper uniform for the funeral should be (nice clean) BDUs, BBDUs and flightsuits (but not utility bags). We were SAR people and we should dress like what we were doing. Dress like we are ready to go out and do it again.

3) Cadet honor guards.

4) CAP chaplain (in BDU) to deliver a fitting talk about the mission and its value to the people who served.

--Nomex

BDU's/Utility uniforms/Flight suits are NOT appropriate for a funeral ever. ONLY Service uniform/corporate or civilian attire.

[Skyray]

OK, I did NOT look this up, so don't crucify me if I am wrong, but...

If I recall 60-1 accurately, CAP formation flights require approval from National and (by FAA regs) concurrence of all PIC's in the formation.  I think 60-1 also requires appropriate training in formation flight before the flight can be approved.

I have always thought that a flyover, if not by a formation and a traditional "Missing Man" maneuver, then a flyover by a single aircraft, would be appropriate for a CAP officer's funeral.

What you have stated is my recollection, John.  There is a logbook endorsement on formation flight also, and there was a raging argument ten or twelve years ago as to whether those of us who were certified for formation flight before the endorsement was required were grandfathered.  Sort of like the complex aircraft endorsement that I don't need because I have five or six thousand complex logged, and only about 75 non-complex.  There are enough former military pilots in CAP that finding the qualified formation pilots should not be a problem.  Getting National to put aside their aversion to risk might be.

[Nomex Maximus]

Flyovers -

Yes, I am well aware of the missing man formation. That would look great with jets, but we don't fly jets. We fly Cessnas and we fly searches so I think CAP should get things done their way.

Cadets -

Even fulltime military honor guards are going to drop a rifle from time to time. I have enough confidence in the cadets that the right group can pull this off. After all, all we are asking of them is to walk preceeding the casket, turn one way or the other and then stand off to the side. At the end, walk out of the location in front of the casket. Their senior officers can make sure they know what to do and that their uniforms are correct. And their leadership is in position to judge whether they are up to it in the first place.

Don't waste an opportunity like this for cadets. I am not in the cadet program but I think that one of the most valuable things a cadet could learn from CAP is the value and cost of sacrifice in the line of duty. Thankfully in CAP there will be very few opportunities for that but when it happens let them learn from it up close and personal.

--Nomex