Color Deficiency Test

[davidsinn]

If you put "matter for the blind" on the envelope, you don't even need the stamp.   

I think, however, if this were really an issue it would be something a bit more embedded in society.

If red was never the same thing that most everyone else sees, but all that particular individual say, when you say "is this red, they say yes" and it's over. They know whatever it is as red.

Done.

Another solution to a problem that doesn't exist in full.

Except that's not how it works. Red/green color blind can't tell the difference between the two so they look the same. I don't see any reason to make this an issue. I can't think of a place in CAP where being able to see color is mission critical.

[cachambliss]

While reading this I am thinking of a certain individual I know who is very color blind.  Oh the handicap and how he has been held back from all life has to offr.  Lets see,
He did manage to eke out a Phd in an engineering discipline. 
He did manage to obtain a commission in the US Army, chose Field Artillery as his branch and was accepted, rose to rank of 0-6 Col, and was a Brigade Commander.
He is a member of the Civil Air Patrol,  Leader of a Ground Team and training one or two other ground teams, and a Sqdn Aerospace Education Officer.
He holds a Private Pilot Certificate for Gliders and is soon to get his Single Engine Land Add On.
We are scheduling him for the FAA Testing to remove the color blind restriction on his pilot certificate.
He is a tremendous assett to the CAP, responsible for bringing several new and returning members into the fold, not only for his sqdn but other uniots as well.

So please tell me again what this so called color blind test is supposed to do?

Seems like a certain political mindset of inventing a problem to fit a pre-conceived  solution.

[Gung Ho]

All I was trying to do was to show how stupid your idea of requiring a color blindness test was. If it was that important we would be doing this test already. The only time I have taken a color test for a driver license was for a medical exam for a commercial driving job and even then the had three lights. One in red, yellow and green, if you could tell each color you passed. I've driven everything from armored swat trucks to firetrucks and ambulances for almost the last 30 years and never once was asked if I had any trouble seeing colors. If we have cadets that want to move on and join the military then yes having a problem seeing colors could be a problem and it is something they should be aware of. But all we need to do is speak with their parents and let them know they might want to check with the family doctor because we don't have the money to send cadets to the doctor. Even if they have a problem seeing some colors that doesn't mean even the military will have a problem with them. CAP does need to worry about safety and our cadets and maybe they should start by giving some try of driving test to our SM before giving them a license to drive our vans, not just check to see what the driving record looks like. When I was in charge of the drivers for a state group we did check the driving record but even if it was perfect I didn't let them drive until I did a road test with them.

[jimmydeanno]

My father-in-law has red/green color deficiency.  He has a driver's license and has never missed a traffic signal, stop sign, etc.  The only thing that we have to tell him is when it's time to water the lawn, because it looks brown to him all the time.

Fortunately, when someone designed our roadway systems they thought enough to create it so that there is significant difference in shapes, colors, textures, etc so that people with various disabilities can drive.  Even people who can read are able to navigate our roadways without issue.

It seems to me that if someone is capable of passing the applicable driving examinations for their applicable state then we should honor that.  Being the "Air Force Auxiliary" doesn't mean that we need to have all the same policies that the Air Force does.  If that were the case, we'd be lacking some members.

[AirAux]

I believe that in reality we have a shortage of color blind people and to satisfy anticipated diversity requirements, we must actively identify color blind people in society and recruit them immediately..JMHO..

[Hawk200]

Show me one situation in CAP where colorblindness was a factor and effected safety or mission effectiveness.

I would echo this somewhat, but expand it. Show a large number that indicates that colorblindness is a factor. Yes, the military has a colorblindness test, but it doesn't restrict entry. If colorblindness is a factor for a pilot, then the FAA has already established criteria and guidelines, so we don't need to.

Second, that website seems to be a signposting type of site that has a primary purpose of selling someone something. It's generally wise to avoid them.

[HGjunkie]

I believe that in reality we have a shortage of color blind people and to satisfy anticipated diversity requirements, we must actively identify color blind people in society and recruit them immediately..JMHO..

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[Nathan]

Thought as a color-blind guy that I would address some of the comments made in this thread. My level of color-blindness isn't exactly classified as red-green or anything like that, but it's more that I see color about as well as everyone else does in the dark. Bright, basic colors aren't too difficult, but once you expand beyond the original ten or so Crayons, it starts to become a struggle to tell you what color you're pointing to.

1) Driving has not been a factor for me. As mentioned, the traffic system here is pretty-well adapted for color-blindness. The traffic lights are always in the same order, and since the green appears to be blue to me, having red and green on the opposite sides of the light makes it fairly easy for me. I don't "miss" stop signs. Honestly, the only time it's been a factor while driving is trying to determine whether the light is yellow or red  from a distance, but given that either means I should theoretically be stopping, then it really doesn't make that much of a difference.

2) For ES, you'd probably want a color-blind guy driving instead of navigating. I'm terrible at reading maps, generally because they have a bunch of colors squashed together in tiny spaces, and I can't distinguish any of them. I'm really good at using an L-Per, but you're taking your own life into your hands if you hand me a map. 

3) I have rarely encountered situations in CAP where color-blindness has held me back significantly. I can't speak on the pilot stuff, since I was never particularly interested in flying and therefore never looked much into the requirements (save that waivers existed for color-blind civilians). The biggest time it affected me was during the NESA compass course. I had a VERY difficult time seeing the orange flags on the brown poles in the middle of the woods, so even though my pace count was pretty accurate, I would wander right by the pole and end up out in the boonies. I ended up having one of the instructors accompany me during my compass course and let me know if I was standing next to the pole or not. FWIW, the orange "flags" were pieces of faded orange marking tape, so it wasn't THAT bright.

4) I did go to MEPS with the intention of becoming an intel guy with the Navy Reserve, but failed miserably at the color-blind test. Interestingly, they were willing to grant me a waiver to be a hospital corpsman or a SEAL ("They're always looking through night vision anyway"), but since I wanted to finish college and apply to medical school, I declined. I think that if the Navy was willing to let me go through BUD/S that CAP shouldn't have anything too much for a color-blind person to handle.

5) I highly doubt that there will ever be a serious accident attributed to someone being color-blind. It does not affect the mission any more than, say, being fat does, or being deaf does, or being old does. Certain situations will limit the members that can participate as a matter of fact. A deaf person will probably not be able to perform as a communications expert with radios, so if CAP is ever needing to use radios, they will use someone else. Likewise, if CAP is ever called to "interpret color coded signals", I will not be the person to volunteer for that job. You don't need to officially hold me back from trying. I'm not even going to bother to put myself in that situation. Just like I doubt a blind person is going to risk causing a serious accident by volunteering to drive a vanload of cadets to an encampment. We aren't stupid. We know our limitations. We've been living with them for a while.

6) 3.5 million people in the US have color-blindness (about 1 in 76). There are likely a TON of color-blind people in CAP. This is a medical condition that has been prevalent in CAP since its inception, and even though around 2% of CAP is colorblind (assuming they're in line with national statistics...), these safety issues have not actually BEEN issues.

7) For most color-blind people, there is no such thing as a "color substitution." It's not that we really see red as green, and green as red. It's that the colors both look similar, and that we can't make up our mind as to which it is. It's a fun logic experiment to say that a person who sees red as green is technically still functional, but that's not the way it works.

Oh, and please do not ask us "What color is this?". It is BEYOND annoying. The question doesn't make any sense, and I show that by asking someone to describe the color red without using examples. Just because you point to something red and we say green doesn't mean, again, that we're ACTUALLY seeing green. It means it could be red or green, and we are guessing incorrectly. The game gets super old. 

[jimmydeanno]

Oh, and please do not ask us "What color is this?". It is BEYOND annoying. The question doesn't make any sense, and I show that by asking someone to describe the color red without using examples. Just because you point to something red and we say green doesn't mean, again, that we're ACTUALLY seeing green. It means it could be red or green, and we are guessing incorrectly. The game gets super old. 

What about this color?

Or this one?

Or this?

Just playin'. 

[exFlight Officer]

I took the test. I am not colorblind     Good thing since I have to transport a CAP van tomorrow.

[N Harmon]

I took the test. I am not colorblind     Good thing since I have to transport a CAP van tomorrow.

Me too, except I am colorblind.

[DakRadz]

Look, as long as you can see orange (ES) and blue (Kinda a tradition), I'd say your good to go in CAP. If you can't see those colors... Oh well. We still want you in

Heck, the fact that the most common (AFAIK) colorblindness is red-green only makes me want more colorblind people up in the top of CAP's leadership- they can't see red, so they can actually accomplish something without endless petty bickering. They obviously wouldn't want to use a lot of green, so they can be in charge of the budget.

^ That was a joke, well-intentioned I assure you; if you need an explanation... *Sigh*

[ol'fido]

I sometimes get my red and green crayons confused when filling out my CAP paperwork.  Plus it's hard to get off the computer screen.

[Nathan]

I took the test. I am not colorblind     Good thing since I have to transport a CAP van tomorrow.

Me too, except I am colorblind.

So... the moral is, if you don't want your CAP-destined male kid to grow up color-blind, don't name him Nathan.

[tsrup]

The only situation where I could see color blindness becoming a factor in CAP would be on a missing person search (etc.)

Example:
Missing person wearing a read shirt in a green field, scanner with red/green colorblindness.

Red blends in with the green and scanner misses the person.

But a scanner can compensate by using different techniques, looking for shadows, angles etc.. 

so it really is a moot point.

As per the original situation as a "safety hazard" while driving.  Get real.  A color blind SM can drive to the meetings, but cannot drive the CAP van?  C'mon...

Another typical thread with a solution looking for a problem.

The only thing surprising about this is that it's gone on to the second page and RM hasn't tried to abolish AF style uniforms yet.