Criminal record & CAP

[Daniel]

Who knows CAPs policy on felonies and can answer me a question?

[a2capt]

How did we go from an assumed violation of the chain to felony? ;-)

As excerpted from the knowledgebase: http://tinyurl.com/capmemberreq

d. Suitability. Subject to being waived by the Executive Director or National Commander, any one of the following may be the basis for rejection of membership.
1) Conviction of a felony by any court of record whether federal, state or military.
2) A pattern of arrests and/or convictions including but not limited to sex offenses, child abuse, DUIs, dishonesty and violence.
3) Discharge from the armed services under other than honorable conditions.
4) Falsification of information on the membership application.
5) Previously terminated or non renewed for cause from membership in CAP.
6) Any other unfavorable information brought to the attention of CAP officials at any level.

The director or National CC are the final authority.

[Daniel]

How did we go from an assumed violation of the chain to felony? ;-)

I've obv been a bad cadet a very bad cadet :-(

Naa. Its a recruiting question

[Spike]

Who knows CAPs policy on felonies and can answer me a question?

Ask us............

[Daniel]

its a pm type of question

[Airrace]

They won't be allowed to join CAP with  Conviction of a felony by any court of record whether federal, state or military.

All Senior members are finger printed and a background check is run on them. If a felony conviction shows up the will not be allowed membership. It means to protect the cadets.

[Eclipse]

They won't be allowed to join CAP with  Conviction of a felony by any court of record whether federal, state or military.

All Senior members are finger printed and a background check is run on them. If a felony conviction shows up the will not be allowed membership. It means to protect the cadets.

It for the protection of everyone; members, our customers, and not to be forgotten, the corporation, and that includes our reputation and relationship with Big Bro Blue.  There's all sorts of badness  out there and its not limited to issues involving children.

[Ned]

They won't be allowed to join CAP with  Conviction of a felony by any court of record whether federal, state or military.

All Senior members are finger printed and a background check is run on them. If a felony conviction shows up the will not be allowed membership. It means to protect the cadets.

Most felons are not accepted for membership.

But some are.  It is entirely up to the Executive Director and the National Commander.

Just like it says in the regulation.

[Duke Dillio]

^100% concur

It depends on the situation, the crime involved, the time since it happened, etc.

Yes, even Martha Stewart might be able to join CAP... (maybe)

[davidsinn]

^100% concur

It depends on the situation, the crime involved, the time since it happened, etc.

Yes, even Martha Stewart might be able to join CAP... (maybe)

Just not as a finance officer 

[Eclipse]

Civil Air Patrol membership, especially at initial application, requires the concurrence of a Squadron CC, which means that an application bounced for a felony conviction (or any other reason) would require that same CC to champion the appeal to NHQ.

Something which I personally would rarely consider, especially for someone I didn't know.

[capchiro]

I had a senior member that had been convicted of vehicular homicide apply.  It had happened years before.  He sent supporting documentation about the conviction and was given membership status.  That was about 4 years ago.

[MSG Mac]

Civil Air Patrol membership, especially at initial application, requires the concurrence of a Squadron CC, which means that an application bounced for a felony conviction (or any other reason) would require that same CC to champion the appeal to NHQ.

Something which I personally would rarely consider, especially for someone I didn't know.

Actually,  if the member admitted to the conviction on his application and gave full details along with an endorsement from the commanders involved. According to conversations with members of National staff several years ago, if it was a one time event, it was mentioned on the application, and didn't involve drugs, violence, or moral turpitude, it may be accepted.

[flydoggy]

Its important to give full details of crime in writing,when applying for membership.

[Johnny Yuma]

I had a senior member that had been convicted of vehicular homicide apply.  It had happened years before.  He sent supporting documentation about the conviction and was given membership status.  That was about 4 years ago.

In most states a vehicular homicide is a misdemeanor. Technically not necessarily disqualifying but I'm certain will raise eyebrows.

One can probably forget a CAPF 75 for a little while...

[Orville_third]

Would the issuance of a pardon by a governor or the President help in allowing someone to join CAP?

[Cecil DP]

Would the issuance of a pardon by a governor or the President help in allowing someone to join CAP?

Yes, a pardon nullifies the conviction. But since it will still come up as a hit on the FBI screening, it should be addressed with the circumstances and a copy of the pardon if possible.

[Gunner C]

I saw a member once who had a governor's pardon for child abuse - he was still allowed to join.

[Daniel]

I saw a member once who had a governor's pardon for child abuse - he was still allowed to join.

A pardon still means you did it, doesn't it?

[Cecil DP]

A pardon means that the record has been expunged!That it has been officially erased. child abuse covers a wide area, ranging from spanking your child to pedaphilia. If a Governor gave a pardon, it must have been a  minor offense. (Pun not intended). despite that if he is a member, he still would have popped up in the FBI screening and had to explain it when he joined.

[BrandonKea]

A pardon means that the record has been expunged!That it has been officially erased. child abuse covers a wide area, ranging from spanking your child to pedaphilia. If a Governor gave a pardon, it must have been a  minor offense. (Pun not intended). despite that if he is a member, he still would have popped up in the FBI screening and had to explain it when he joined.

A pardon does not equal an expungement, in fact, there's a large difference. The North Korea journalists received clemency, their acts we forgiven, however, the government of the DPRK did NOT say that didn't do it.

[Cecil DP]

In the US, we weren't discussing the PRK, In the USA a pardon expunges the conviction. What the Koreans did was commute and deport the reporters. Two different stories,

[BrandonKea]

A very real distinction exists between an expungement and a pardon. When an expungement is granted, the person whose record is expunged may, for most purposes, treat the event as if it never occurred. A pardon (also called "executive clemency"), on the other hand, does not "erase" the event. Rather, it constitutes forgiveness. An expungement can be granted only by a judge. A pardon can be granted only by the governor or the President.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expungement

[Ned]

Pardons and expungements are creatures of state law for state law violations, and federal law for federal crimes.

And as you might imagine, the laws in this area vary somewhat between the 50 states and the feds.

But whatever the legal status, for our purposes it is important to remember that the person did what the person did, even if they are no longer convicted of it.

And the membership review board (required in every unit) will carefully consider the facts and circumstances of the event in making their recommendation to accept or decline the membership.  (Or at least they should.)

Example #1:  Mr. Jones was married to Mrs. Jones for 25 years before she developed terminal cancer that led to a lingering and painful condition.  At some point, Mr. Jones helped his wife to commit suicide and was subsequently convicted on felony manslaughter.  Mr. Jones did his time, and was a pillar of his community.  Mr. Jones subsequently received a gubanatorial pardon.  A couple of years later he applies to join CAP.  Under his state law, he can truthfully state that he has not been convicted of a felony, but he shares with the Membership Committee the facts and circumstances of his wife's death. 

The Committee recommends that Mr. Jones be permitted to become a member.

Example #2:  Mr Smith was a successful drug mule.  So successful, in fact, that he was never arrested or convicted for his crimes.  He applies for membership, and in moment of truthfullness, shares his criminal past with the Committee.  He is not recommended for membership, even though he has never been convicted of any crime.

The point is that is some situations, it is the facts of the incident(s) that are important, not the legal technicality of conviction.  In most cases, or course, the fact of the conviction may make it unnecessary to make a detailed factual investigation.  But we can if we want to.


Ned
Former Legal Officer

[Cecil DP]

A very real distinction exists between an expungement and a pardon. When an expungement is granted, the person whose record is expunged may, for most purposes, treat the event as if it never occurred. A pardon (also called "executive clemency"), on the other hand, does not "erase" the event. Rather, it constitutes forgiveness. An expungement can be granted only by a judge. A pardon can be granted only by the governor or the President.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expungement

I'll accept your definition, though citing a legal dictionary would have been a better choice.

[Gunner C]

If a Governor gave a pardon, it must have been a  minor offense. (Pun not intended). despite that if he is a member, he still would have popped up in the FBI screening and had to explain it when he joined.

Not so.  A governor is the executive of a sovereign state.  He can pardon ANY state offense (if allowed by the state constitution). 

[FW]

^100% concur

It depends on the situation, the crime involved, the time since it happened, etc.

Yes, even Martha Stewart might be able to join CAP... (maybe)

Just not as a finance officer 

Hey!   They let me in.....

[BrandonKea]

But whatever the legal status, for our purposes it is important to remember that the person did what the person did, even if they are no longer convicted of it.

Unless they were wrongly convicted, but that's another bag of worms.


I would like to think that people can make mistakes, learn from their mistakes, and move on with their lives.

I, for example, have 0 criminal convictions on my record, thanks to pre-trial diversion and that traffic class you can take. I have, however, made a few mistakes. Nothing above Disturbing the Peace, but I definitely learned never to throw a toilet from a 3rd story fire escape onto a basketball court at a frat house on a school night... But, again, we live, we learn.

Surely, several members in now have criminal records, and hopefully they have learned their lessons. Just because someone made a mistake, doesn't always mean we're not fit for service in the CAP.

[Ned]

Just because someone made a mistake, doesn't always mean we're not fit for service in the CAP.

Absolutely true.  Which is one of the best reasons we have Membership Review Boards and also rely on the judgment of the National Commander and Executive Director.

These are all experienced folks with common sense.  The last time I looked around at the National Boards, I didn't see any halos.

Every one of us has made mistakes, and hopefully learned from the experience.  We have a process to make sure that membership is the best choice for the prospective member and CAP.


Buy me a Guinness in San Antonio, and I'll tell you about the time I got arrested . . . .

Ned Lee

[Spike]

Hey!   They let me in.....

Anyway......I am no lawyer, have no legal background and no idea where to even start on this subject.  I would like to say that I would prefer that CAP not let in anyone that was ever convicted of sexual crimes, fraud, abuse, theft, murder or other infamous crimes or misdemeanors.  Having said that, I have no problem letting people in that had a juvenile conviction (other than what I listed), or other individuals who have served their debt to society.  Just because something happened 20 years ago, does not mean it will happen again.  There are many who desire to serve their community and nation and CAP is a great opportunity for them.

Just because there is a record does not mean the person continues to act they way they did. 

Now.....there is no such thing as a mistake.  For people to say they "made a mistake" is no excuse.  Making bad decisions is a better way to phrase past indiscretions.  Mistakes are societies way of saying "you did not know better".  Everyone knows better.  The guy that is a child molester KNOWS BETTER.  Yet he choose to be a molester.  That is a person who has no place in CAP.  PERIOD.

I have been honest to prospective members.  I tell them that "in order to be a member, you will be screened by the FBI, free of charge".  If they fail to disclose past crimes they will be excluded, but if they choose to be honest and forthright with me, I will do my best to support them in becoming a member. 

I hate to send away people who at one time made a bad decision or decisions, but have since then been a decent citizen. 

I did have a young woman come to me to apply and was honest with me and let me know she was convicted of shoplifting multiple times when she was a teenager.  I had her gather up support letters from her current employer and friends and family detailing what she does in the community (nurse, volunteer blood donating coordinator etc).  I believe this helped her case.  She currently is a Squadron Commander of a fairly large Squadron and has guided countless young men and women through the program.

On the flip side, I had a registered sex offender try to join and not be honest with me.  (I check every new member on the national sex offenders website by the way.)  I had check and application in hand when I went to return them to him.  I hate doing that, but those people made very, very bad decisions, and I can not overlook that.  He went to another Squadron to apply, and got all the way through to the FBI check, when National sent him a denial letter. 

In short (and yes this was a long post), all we need to use is common sense on issues like this.  Ask what if any crimes a person was committed of carrying out, what punishment they received and how they have lived their life since then.  Make a decision not based just on the fact that a crime was committed.  WE are not here to retry people, nor pass judgments.  IF they are honest with you, have lived a life free of bad decisions since the original conviction, served their punishments (if any) and have a strong desire to serve, lets give them the chance.  If they can provide support on their behalf showing their change of behavior, there should be no problem.  IF they are dishonest, have no regret on past behavior, can not come up with a meaningful argument for joining and can not provide supporting information on their lifestyle change......they are not welcome in most cases.

This is not a hard subject area.  Be smart, do research, be fair and actually try to get to know the person before submitting paperwork to join and things have a tendency to work out. 

Off topic..... Daniel L  Not cool to edit your post stating that you "did not read the replies to your post because they were "long"".  I read every single post in reply to any topic I start, or want to reply to myself.  I hope you read mine here, even though it is "too long". 

[Major Lord]

I think to somewhat restate Ned's case, criminal convictions per se are unimportant, and that abberant acts, criminal behaviors, and other misdeeds are the issue. ( perversion, communism, Amway sales, etc are no longer disqualifying factors) Now assuming that we actually believe that NHQ has some access to a US DOJ background screening tool ( NCIS, EPIC, Etc) criminal convictions are going to be a big red flag, and not having divulged these convictions ( or arrests) is going to get the applicant put on a very short excremental list.

I am skeptical about NHQ actually having the resources to do a true background check, based off of a set of fingerprint cards and  a D.O.B. I consider it much more likely that they use a private pre-employment screening company ( and probably the cheapest one, since an even marginal pre-employment screening costs in excess of $100.00) The bad news, is without having access to federal records, their is no single source of criminal record checks for the entire country. If I am wrong, I would love to hear how we gained access to federal records!

What Squadron has not had an attempt at infiltration by a deviant? How many have made it into CAP (answer:some) How many people accepted people into their Squadrons , when every fiber of their being screamed "No, No, No!" but went ahead anyway, thinking that they would be screened out if they were really bad guys? Maybe listen to that little voice when faced with a prospective member, even if they are admitted toilet hurlers ( The fiends this organization accepts!) If they tell you they shoplifted in High School, and you really want the unspeakable criminal anyway, you can probably get an exemption. Bank robbers, drug dealers, heroin addicts, prostitutes, and methodists we might have to do some "splain'n " to NHQ about.

Major Lord

[Johnny Yuma]

I have, however, made a few mistakes. Nothing above Disturbing the Peace, but I definitely learned never to throw a toilet from a 3rd story fire escape onto a basketball court at a frat house on a school night... But, again, we live, we learn.

Wow Man, just Wow! :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[Airrace]

It sounds to me like a felon could be allowed into CAP. provided that the offense is not drug related or involves child abuse.

[Johnny Yuma]

It sounds to me like a felon could be allowed into CAP. provided that the offense is not drug related or involves child abuse.

True with new members and we had a lot of members shown the door when the whole fingerprinting / CPPT began back in the late 80's.

However, there were a few that were allowed to stay, including one member that I remember had a child molestation charge. IIRC/WIWAC the incident stemmed from and accusation during a divorce debacle. Mom got daughter to concoct a story, Dad's lawyer told him to take a plea to lesser charges and later the daughter recanted. Didn't help Dad get his LEO job back but I think he was allowed to remain in CAP as his daughter was a cadet and he actually had custody of her despite the conviction. I believe that NHQ actually allowed the Wing Commander to make the call on whether he stayed or not.

Would that happen today? I doubt it.

[CPT Anderson]

Spike,

Not even a misdemeanor?  Come on.  There are some of us who hapened (like "my friend") to have a very very lead foot - 95 in a 65.....felony driving offense, should I not be allowed in CAP b/c I have a lead foot?  I shouldn't be allowed to drive     There are minor crimes that do come up, that is why we have integrity as part of our foundation.  Hey, I got a ticket, so what, I can be honest.  (NOT the 95/65 story....

[Cherokeepilot]

Folks...........

We had a senior member to be tried convicted and received the maximum sentence allowable under state law for financial misconduct with little ole' ladies trust funds.  Said individual was published in headlines in the major regional newspaper.  And.......said individual was made a group commander.

Interesting..........
73s

[Gunner C]

Nothing above Disturbing the Peace, but I definitely learned never to throw a toilet from a 3rd story fire escape onto a basketball court at a frat house on a school night... But, again, we live, we learn.

I have gone to bat for two members who were convicted of crimes when they were young.  But with frat boys, THAT'S WHERE I DRAW THE LINE!

[Gunner C]

The quote above is not Ned's.  Not sure how that happened.  He didn't think it was funny so I tried to fix it but the edit option was gone.

I apologize for the inconvenience.

[Spike]

Spike,

Not even a misdemeanor?  Come on.  There are some of us who happened (like "my friend") to have a very very lead foot - 95 in a 65.....felony driving offense, should I not be allowed in CAP b/c I have a lead foot?  I shouldn't be allowed to drive     There are minor crimes that do come up, that is why we have integrity as part of our foundation.  Hey, I got a ticket, so what, I can be honest.  (NOT the 95/65 story....

Re- read (read again) my post above.  I said "infamous crimes and misdemeanors"  That term may be lost on you, but it is common in the law, relating to things such as murder and rape etc.)  I did not mean a misdemeanor in the sense of a traffic ticket, but I know you already know that!   

[Eclipse]

There are some of us who hapened (like "my friend") to have a very very lead foot - 95 in a 65.....felony driving offense, should I not be allowed in CAP b/c I have a lead foot?

You know what?  Maybe not.

It speaks to judgement and common sense.  There's a reason 95 miles an hour is a felony, its reckless driving.  Tap somebody in the next lane at that speed and you won't need to worry about filing applications for anything, because you're either dead or incarcerated.

And you've already admitted that its a regular occurrence, so we have a pattern of poor judgement and unsafe conduct, yet I should entrust you with the safety of your fellow members and/or cadets?

Just because "everybody does it", or its "no big deal" in your eyes doesn't mean others don't take that kind of thing more seriously.

[Pylon]

There are some of us who hapened (like "my friend") to have a very very lead foot - 95 in a 65.....felony driving offense, should I not be allowed in CAP b/c I have a lead foot?

You know what?  Maybe not.

It speaks to judgement and common sense.  There's a reason 95 miles an hour is a felony, its reckless driving.  Tap somebody in the next lane at that speed and you won't need to worry about filing applications for anything, because you're either dead or incarcerated.

And you've already admitted that its a regular occurrence, so we have a pattern of poor judgement and unsafe conduct, yet I should entrust you with the safety of your fellow members and/or cadets?

Just because "everybody does it", or its "no big deal" in your eyes doesn't mean others don't take that kind of thing more seriously.

It must be lonesome up on that horse...

[Ned]

There's a reason 95 miles an hour is a felony, its reckless driving. 

See, that's part of the problem.

Merely going 95 miles an hour may be a felony in some places (which I kinda doubt, BTW), a misdemeanor in others, and only an infraction (traffic ticket) in places like California.

IOW, for doing exactly the same thing a person may be barred from membership in one wing (Felonyland), maybe barred in another after a little tap dancing in front of the squadron membership committee (misdemeanorland), or accepted without a moment's thought in other wings.

Odd for a policy that is supposed to help set uniform policies nationwide.

[jimmydeanno]

^Exactly.

One of our members has a wreckless driving charge on their driving record.  Wreckless driving in NH is a Class B misdemeanor:

A class B misdemeanor is any crime so designated by statute within or outside this code and any crime defined outside of this code for which the maximum penalty does not include any term of imprisonment or any fine in excess of the maximum provided for a class B misdemeanor in RSA 651:2, IV(a)

III. A person convicted of a class B misdemeanor may be sentenced to conditional or unconditional discharge, a fine, or other sanctions, which shall not include incarceration or probation but may include monitoring by the department of corrections if deemed necessary and appropriate.
    III-a. A person convicted of a violation may be sentenced to conditional or unconditional discharge, or a fine.
    IV. A fine may be imposed in addition to any sentence of imprisonment, probation, or conditional discharge. The limitations on amounts of fines authorized in subparagraphs (a) and (b) shall not include the amount of any civil penalty, the imposition of which is authorized by statute or by a properly adopted local ordinance, code, or regulation. The amount of any fine imposed on:
       (a) Any individual may not exceed $4,000 for a felony, $2,000 for a class A misdemeanor, $1,200 for a class B misdemeanor, and $1,000 for a violation.

And no, they don't have a CAP driver's license.  But they do one heck of a job.

[Eclipse]

It must be lonesome up on that horse...

Actually the air is much clearer up here...

There has to be a line drawn somewhere, and like most of these discussions, the number of members, or potential members, who fall into these categories is so small as to be statistically zero.

As has been pointed out several times, for the rare case when someone like Jason Bourne wants to join CAP and he has a questionable (or in Jason's case nonexistent) past, command discretion can override the issue.

Bottom line if you have a felony conviction for anything on your record, someone should be taking a second or third look at your application - the same way the military and/or Dominoes pizza will is you apply there.

There's also a message for all you lead-footed younglings out there.  In a world where no information ever dies, and you can Google most people's sins, its time to think twice before acting.

[SarDragon]

Here in CA, certain moving violations, including speeding <100 mph, can be removed from your driving record by attending a one day driving school. This can be done no more frequently than once every 18 months. It costs $25-50, in addition to the fine and added admin fee; 81 in a 65 runs about $280 total.

[Ned]

Here in CA, certain moving violations, including speeding <100 mph, can be removed from your driving record by attending a one day driving school. This can be done no more frequently than once every 18 months. It costs $25-50, in addition to the fine and added admin fee; 81 in a 65 runs about $280 total.

I'll go you one better.

It is also possible in California to apply to the court to have misdemeanors and most felonies retroactively dismissed and cleared if you have satisfactorily completed your probation.

IOW, you can be a convicted meth dealer, successfully complete three years of probabtion (some jail time, keep a job, test clean, and avoid more arrests), and then be "unconvicted" of the crime.  All you need do is apply to the court and pay the fee.

You can thereafter legally say you have "never been convicted of a crime" on job applications

(The arrest will still show on your criminal record, so CAP's FBI check should still pick it up, but you are not convicted of the crime at that point.)

Another good reason for unit membership committees.


Ned Lee
Former Legal Officer

[JCJ]

I think to somewhat restate Ned's case, criminal convictions per se are unimportant, and that abberant acts, criminal behaviors, and other misdeeds are the issue. ( perversion, communism, Amway sales, etc are no longer disqualifying factors) Now assuming that we actually believe that NHQ has some access to a US DOJ background screening tool ( NCIS, EPIC, Etc) criminal convictions are going to be a big red flag, and not having divulged these convictions ( or arrests) is going to get the applicant put on a very short excremental list.

I am skeptical about NHQ actually having the resources to do a true background check, based off of a set of fingerprint cards and  a D.O.B. I consider it much more likely that they use a private pre-employment screening company ( and probably the cheapest one, since an even marginal pre-employment screening costs in excess of $100.00) The bad news, is without having access to federal records, their is no single source of criminal record checks for the entire country. If I am wrong, I would love to hear how we gained access to federal records!

What Squadron has not had an attempt at infiltration by a deviant? How many have made it into CAP (answer:some) How many people accepted people into their Squadrons , when every fiber of their being screamed "No, No, No!" but went ahead anyway, thinking that they would be screened out if they were really bad guys? Maybe listen to that little voice when faced with a prospective member, even if they are admitted toilet hurlers ( The fiends this organization accepts!) If they tell you they shoplifted in High School, and you really want the unspeakable criminal anyway, you can probably get an exemption. Bank robbers, drug dealers, heroin addicts, prostitutes, and methodists we might have to do some "splain'n " to NHQ about.

Major Lord

My understanding it is an actual FBI check.  That is probably the most comprehensive background check available without personal interviews & additional forms, etc, but it doesn't cover everything.  But it covers alot.

A key principle here is full disclosure on the membership application.  If there has been a problem in the past and the prospective member fully discloses it along with whatever has been done or is being done to prevent a recurrence, then those who review the application have something to work with.  If a serious problem comes up on the background check that wasn't disclosed on the application, it is much more likley to be a "deal-killer" - that's pretty much a "real world" principle, not just CAP.

[Nick]

When CAP receives your print card, they submit the query to AFIS (FBI's automated fingerprint identificaiton system) using their ORI (ALAFCAP00) that is assigned to every criminal justice agency (go figure).  AFIS, using your prints and identifying information, matches on an NCIC person record, if one exists, and shows every III entry on your record -- typically any arrest in which a print card is submitted by the originating agency (ORA).  Every arrest, charge, and its disposition (dismissed, deferred adjudication, probation, sentencing, etc.) is shown on the record -- regardless if whether there was a dismissal, finding of not guilty, etc.  But, there must be a custodial arrest for the record to be initiated.

Now, CAP may do additional checks, but I know that's at least what is done with the print cards you submit.

[Gunner C]

When CAP receives your print card, they submit the query to AFIS (FBI's automated fingerprint identificaiton system) using their ORI (ALAFCAP00) that is assigned to every criminal justice agency (go figure).  AFIS, using your prints and identifying information, matches on an NCIC person record, if one exists, and shows every III entry on your record -- typically any arrest in which a print card is submitted by the originating agency (ORA).  Every arrest, charge, and its disposition (dismissed, deferred adjudication, probation, sentencing, etc.) is shown on the record -- regardless if whether there was a dismissal, finding of not guilty, etc.  But, there must be a custodial arrest for the record to be initiated.

Now, CAP may do additional checks, but I know that's at least what is done with the print cards you submit.

I see III records in NCIC all the time.  Even when you don't worry about convictions, it gives a pretty good indication of the person's character.  Sure, anyone could be arrested mistakenly for something and have the charges dropped, but I see people all the time who start off with misdemeanors and have an arrest once or twice a year for the next 5-10 years in escalating severity.  You get a real feel for the type of person you're dealing with. 

I've never had a bad report come back on anyone's CAP investigation.  Does anything get sent to the unit for action by the membership committee?

[Ned]

Does anything get sent to the unit for action by the membership committee?

No, per the reg adverse information from the FBI is acted upon only at NHQ.

[Eclipse]

Does anything get sent to the unit for action by the membership committee?

No, per the reg adverse information from the FBI is acted upon only at NHQ.

So what does the Unit CC actually get back?  I've never seen one either.

[NC Hokie]

Does anything get sent to the unit for action by the membership committee?

No, per the reg adverse information from the FBI is acted upon only at NHQ.

So what does the Unit CC actually get back?  I've never seen one either.

Nothing.  Sending the application to NHQ indicates that the local CC and membership committee have already accepted and vouch for the applicant.  If NHQ finds nothing that would warrant disqualification, there's no reason for them to think that the local authorities will change their minds.

[Eclipse]

Does anything get sent to the unit for action by the membership committee?

No, per the reg adverse information from the FBI is acted upon only at NHQ.

So what does the Unit CC actually get back?  I've never seen one either.

Nothing.  Sending the application to NHQ indicates that the local CC and membership committee have already accepted and vouch for the applicant.  If NHQ finds nothing that would warrant disqualification, there's no reason for them to think that the local authorities will change their minds.

Right, but what does the CC get back if the FBI check bounces?

[Spike]

Does anything get sent to the unit for action by the membership committee?

No, per the reg adverse information from the FBI is acted upon only at NHQ.

So what does the Unit CC actually get back?  I've never seen one either.

Nothing.  Sending the application to NHQ indicates that the local CC and membership committee have already accepted and vouch for the applicant.  If NHQ finds nothing that would warrant disqualification, there's no reason for them to think that the local authorities will change their minds.

Right, but what does the CC get back if the FBI check bounces?

Seriously if it bounces, some form of notification should be made to the member and Squadron Commander.  That way I don't sit as the Squadron Commander and be harassed by the new member as holding up his application.  They would be best to let me know, so I can pass it on that membership was denied, instead of me calling NHQ and getting the same information and having to pass it on anyway.

Sounds like NHQ is lazy.  They want me to make the inquiry, when they could easily just shoot me an email saying "DENIED". 

[Major Lord]

I am openly skeptical of the idea that CAP, a 501 C3 Corporation, has lawful access to NCIC printouts. Even public agencies accessing these lawfully are subject to DOJ audits. If CAP does have the authority to inspect NCIC records, I would love to hear or see where that authority originates. If it exists by some covert method, it is a criminal act, and a civil violation of the Fair Credit Reporting Act. In California, it is not uncommon for police to end up fired and/or in jail just to satisfy their curiosity about Paris Hilton's arrest record and home address......

Major Lord

[jimmydeanno]

I could have sworn that peoples criminal records and addresses were a matter of public record...

I go down to the town hall, I can get a record of who paid what in taxes, who has a lien, etc it comes with an address.  If I go to the police station, for about $5.00 I can get a printout of a criminal record...

[CAPSGT]

I am openly skeptical of the idea that CAP, a 501 C3 Corporation, has lawful access to NCIC printouts. Even public agencies accessing these lawfully are subject to DOJ audits. If CAP does have the authority to inspect NCIC records, I would love to hear or see where that authority originates. If it exists by some covert method, it is a criminal act, and a civil violation of the Fair Credit Reporting Act. In California, it is not uncommon for police to end up fired and/or in jail just to satisfy their curiosity about Paris Hilton's arrest record and home address......

Major Lord

How in the world does the FCRA apply to criminal records?

[Nick]

It is a VERY limited group (HQ CAP/DPX) that has access to the records that are returned from the investigation, and the information they obtain does not leave their section -- that's why it's called confidential screening.  I don't know what kind of relationship they have with the FBI, so I can't speak for how they are vetted and what contractual obligations they have to control the information they obtain.

As for what the units get back -- it's basically nothing.  When a new member starts in CAP, they are placed in a pending leadership status.  Once they undergo the confidential screening, they either pass the check in which case they go into an approved leadership status which is reflected on the unit's MML (or whatever it's called this year).  That is usually the only indication a commander receives that a member has been cleared.  If there is additional questions that DPX has for the member in order to make a decision, then they contact the member directly.  If they make a finding that disqualifies the member, then the executive director receives their finding to make a final decision (CAPR 39-2).

Maj Lord -- they are not deriving their access to NCIC as a 501(c)(3).  They have an ORI issued under the Air Force, so I trust some CAP-USAF work was done to grant that access.  Remember, this is bigger than just cadet protection.  Members are (may) be entrusted with Federal resources as part of their membership, so there is a risk that must be weighed in granting anyone a membership.  I compare this almost to an SF 85 investigation, where you are in a position of trust, but non-sensitive that would require a clearance, as an instrumentality of the United States -- even if it is as a volunteer.

Jimmy -- Criminal convictions are a matter of public record.  Findings of non-guilt, dismissals, etc. are not.

[Cecil DP]

If a prospective member gets a hit on the FBI's fingerprint screening, the individual is contacted directly by National HQ, and asked to explain it. If the explanation is not acceptable they are told the application is denied and thier membership fees returned.

[Major Lord]

Criminal records are generally a matter of public record. There are exceptions. An NCIC report is a not just a listing of criminal convictions, it also shows arrests, even though no conviction may have occurred. These are closely held records protected by law. You can go to any municipality and view conviction records, or in some cases, order them online. An employer accessing controlled documents and creating a "secret" report on a person is impermissible. A private organization paying for an investigative report is creating a "consumer report" within the meaning of the Fair Credit Reporting Act, and this is where the federal jurisdiction comes in. Of course, conspiring to access controlled records ( passport files, NCIC records, telephone records, etc) is a federal felony, even if the person requesting the information is not directly furnished the original source material. Other than NCIC, and a couple of other sources we won't talk about here, there is no nationwide publicly accessible source of criminal convictions...you need to search municipality by municipality, and State by State. Some states have computer records, some write them down on Popsicle wrappers and throw them in a big box.

As a matter of background, I am a licensed Private Investigator in California, and I have a branch office in Los Angeles that is in the business of pre-employment verification services for many large Corporations.

Major Lord