Flight Officer Advanced Promotions

[PhoenixRisen]

According to CAPR 35-5, there are advanced flight officer promotions allowed for former Cadets (in the event you transfer to senior membership before you turn 21).  (i.e. Mitchell > FO, Earhart > TFO, Spaatz > SFO)  If one were to do this, you would also be advanced to your proper "commissioned" officer rank upon turning 21 (2d Lt, 1st Lt or Capt).

What about those who join as a flight officer without former cadet experience?  Do their accomplishments within the FO program equate to advanced promotion (i.e. FO > 2dLt, TFO > 1st Lt, SFO > Capt)?  Or is the former cadet experience required for that?

CAPR 35-5 only mentions it for former cadets -- but after seeing this (from the KYWG website), I just wanted to verify:

The benefit for you in participating in the Flight Officer Program is that on your 21st birthday, you are eligable to be promoted to 2nd Leiutenant if you achieved Flight Officer, First Leiutenant if you acheived Technical Flight Officer, and to Captain if you achieved Senior Flight Officer!

Thanks!

[Hill CAP]

I would see it the same for everyone as long as you meet the requirements for the promotion.

However all promotions are at the desecration of the unit commander and are not guaranteed.

[SJFedor]

How you described it is how it should be, not how it is.

FO = 2d Lt as long as you have at least 6 months in.
TFO +12 months TIG as FO or 2d Lt = 1st Lt
SFO +18 months TIG as SFO or 1st Lt = Capt.


CAPR 35-5, Figure 2, describes how it works.

[ßτε]

TFO +12 months TIG as FO or 2d Lt = 1st Lt

Should be

TFO +12 months TIG as TFO or 2d Lt = 1st Lt

[USADOD]

I say we mix it up, and replace the FO grades with U.S. Army Warrant Officer Grades.

Hooah

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

I say we mix it up, and replace the FO grades with U.S. Army Warrant Officer Grades.

Hooah

WIWAC I held the grade of C/WO for a few months

[SJFedor]

TFO +12 months TIG as FO or 2d Lt = 1st Lt

Should be

TFO +12 months TIG as TFO or 2d Lt = 1st Lt

Whoops. Forgot that T. 

[PhoenixRisen]

How you described it is how it should be, not how it is.

FO = 2d Lt as long as you have at least 6 months in.
TFO +12 months TIG as FO or 2d Lt = 1st Lt
SFO +18 months TIG as SFO or 1st Lt = Capt.


CAPR 35-5, Figure 2, describes how it works.

Sweet, I missed that. Tthanks!

[Cecil DP]

How you described it is how it should be, not how it is.

FO = 2d Lt as long as you have at least 6 months in.
TFO +12 months TIG as FO or 2d Lt = 1st Lt
SFO +18 months TIG as SFO or 1st Lt = Capt.


CAPR 35-5, Figure 2, describes how it works.

Also need the complete the appropriate PD Training

[Gunner C]

I say we mix it up, and replace the FO grades with U.S. Army Warrant Officer Grades.

Hooah

Actually, FOs replaced warrant officer grades.  I was a CAP CWO many, MANY years ago.  IMO, we need to go back to that.  In fact, IMO, most officers should be WOs.  The only folks who need to be Lts and above are those in the chain of command, former commanders who are staff officers at group and higher, and "special branch" officers (MDs, chaplains, etc).  Return to tying authority to rank/grade.

But that's another thread.

[Cecil DP]

The Air Force dismantled the WO program in 1959 with the last of them retiring in the late 70's. The last CAP WO's went out in 1983 when the new(old new) PD program was established and the grade was dropped. The fact that most of those who were wearing the grade were in the 18-21 years old age group was a key irritant to those RM in all branches who actually were former career NCO's with a minimum TIS of 10 years. There is nothing wrong with following the CG Aux example of serving in agrade only as long as you were in a position which calls for it, and then reverting to your permenant grade. IE Wing Commander is a Col during his tenure, but has only completed Level III, he reverts to Major upon his stepping down. Prior to the end of WWII, it wasn't uncommon for an officer to serve in a Three or four star billet and revert back to Maj Gen upon being relieved. For instance GA MacArthur dropped from 4 stars to 2 when he retired as Chief of Staff of the Army in the 1930's

[Spike]

^ The Army has the program...."High School to Flight School" (I should say mostly National Guard), where you will see a 20 year old (maybe younger) walking around with WO bars.

I doubt the CAP got rid of Warrant Officers, because the military didn't like it.

In fact, I was a Cadet Flight Officer, with gold pip when I received my Mitchell.  Shortly thereafter, they eliminated it. 

I was going to ask "what is a Flight Officer"......as I have only run into 3 my entire time in CAP. 
1 was absolutely awesome.....running a Squadron, the other two were "overage cadets without a place to be", and acted like it.

[Gunner C]

The Air Force dismantled the WO program in 1959 with the last of them retiring in the late 70's. The last CAP WO's went out in 1983 when the new(old new) PD program was established and the grade was dropped. The fact that most of those who were wearing the grade were in the 18-21 years old age group was a key irritant to those RM in all branches who actually were former career NCO's with a minimum TIS of 10 years. There is nothing wrong with following the CG Aux example of serving in agrade only as long as you were in a position which calls for it, and then reverting to your permenant grade. IE Wing Commander is a Col during his tenure, but has only completed Level III, he reverts to Major upon his stepping down. Prior to the end of WWII, it wasn't uncommon for an officer to serve in a Three or four star billet and revert back to Maj Gen upon being relieved. For instance GA MacArthur dropped from 4 stars to 2 when he retired as Chief of Staff of the Army in the 1930's

USAF warrant officers remained until the 1980s, it's just that they didn't bring on any new ones after the late 1950s when the NCO supergrades (E-8 and E-9) came into effect.  The new NCO grades were used as excuses to turn WO billets into company grade billets, thus, more pilots.

There is a growing faction in the AF to bring them back, tho still not large enough to make it happen.  The new laws of the 1980s for WOs gave them commissions, thus equal authority with their company grade counterparts.  WOs no longer are appointed with the wave of the "magic wand" - in the Army they all attend Ft Rucker, with the exception of SF warrant officers, who attend the Warrant Officer Candidate School at the Army JFK Center at Ft Bragg.  There are a total of three career schools after the warrant officer basic course between W-2 and W-5.

Most CAP officers are technical specialists and we would do well to have a system of Limited Duty Officers, like the sea services. 

[BillB]

The complaint I hear about the Flight Officer program involves the FO insignia. The comment that it looks like AFROTC grades rather than a CAP FO grade. As such CAP light Officers are looked down on by any CAP member wearing bars or oak leaves. CAP officers consider Flight officer grades as as an extension of the cadet program in many cases. Unless an 18-21 year old cadet is trying to earn the Spaatz, cadets in this age group more often became inactive or just don't attempt to progress. Why turn senior and be considered a  "super cadet"?

[Gunner C]

I'd offer the following:

• Change the insignia back to AF WO bars.
• Change the grades from three to five; add Chief Flight Officer and Master Flight Officer
• Open it up to all pilots and observers, with the initial grade being FO
• Exempt only the following:  Chaplains (if they want to serve as anything but chaplains, revert them to FOs), MDs (same as chaplains), current and former military officers, and former cadet officers (if they refuse command, if they are senior, revert them to FOs)
• When an officer finishes command, they move to the staff at next higher headquarters
• Whoever is senior in the unit becomes the commander.  If they refuse command, they either revert to FO.

[RiverAux]

The complaint I hear about the Flight Officer program involves the FO insignia. The comment that it looks like AFROTC grades rather than a CAP FO grade.

I doubt it is that it looks like AFROTC grade, its just that they don't look like anything the average person is going to recognize, especially when there are only a handful of them in any one wing, much less at the average squadron.  I don't care what insignia you put on them, most CAP senior members and probably most cadets will probably not see enough of them in their career to be able to really recognize any insignia, whether WO or FO. 

[BuckeyeDEJ]

...from the KYWG website...

The benefit for you in participating in the Flight Officer Program is that on your 21st birthday, you are eligable to be promoted to 2nd Leiutenant if you achieved Flight Officer, First Leiutenant if you acheived Technical Flight Officer, and to Captain if you achieved Senior Flight Officer!

"Leiutenant"? Looks like a lieutenant or a former one somewhere needs remedial spelling help!

[BrandonKea]

I think we should just leave it alone now as is. It works out well in that there's three grades that correspond to the officer grades, and it's pretty clear how they correspond. The other realistic (IMHO better) option is have 18-21 y/o SM's just be SMWOG's and don't even bother with flight officer grades...

[adamblank]

As opposed to a major overhaul, I think we should just focus on making them equally recognized senior members of the program.  These two small items I think would be a step in the right direction for our FO program:

1) Grade tracked in Eservices (especially with CAP NCO and cadet grades tracked).  It would also lead to less confusion when the respective FO turns 21.

2) All uniform items available to the FOs (i.e. plastic insignia).

[BrandonKea]

As opposed to a major overhaul, I think we should just focus on making them equally recognized senior members of the program.  These two small items I think would be a step in the right direction for our FO program:

1) Grade tracked in Eservices (especially with CAP NCO and cadet grades tracked).  It would also lead to less confusion when the respective FO turns 21.

2) All uniform items available to the FOs (i.e. plastic insignia).

I agree with point 1. If we can track ALL the cadet grades, we can track FO, TFO, and SFO.

It would be dumb to make insignia for something as temporary as the flight officer grades, IMHO.