Please get rid of the plastic encased ranks

Started by piperl4, March 09, 2008, 06:24:24 PM

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

SSgt Rudin

Quote from: Gunner C on March 10, 2008, 03:45:27 AM
Quote from: 2d Lt Rudin on March 10, 2008, 02:57:01 AM
So back to getting rid of the plastic encased grade insignia. We could always use Navy rank insignia for flight suits. Full color grade insignia on OD, added bonus the edges are already finished  :)



There's a couple of things:

The Capt insignia is the sea service design, we use the Army/Air Force design

The Maj & Lt Col leaves are also different - different shape (slight, but noticeable)

The sea services sew on their rank insignia so it's really large (square) where we sew them on to conform more to the shape and size of the insignia - once again, this is sea service stuff.

I do, however, agree that we should use the full color sew-on embroidered rather than the plastic stuff.  There's no reason why not - it certainly sets us apart from our RM brethren.

GC

You know the funny part is, when I was in the Navy there were some Pilots who had the wrong insignia on their flight suites. Considering that the Navy and MC are the only ones who use these it really doesn't make sense how they got them. Then again they are made by Vanguard. Now if we could just get our hands on those, no wait that would require vanguard admitting they screwed up.
SSgt Jordan Rudin, CAP

wacapgh

Quote from: arajca on March 10, 2008, 03:24:52 AM
Or we could just use the existing CAP embroidered grade insignia on dark blue.

There's a NB item from almost two years ago asking USAF for permission to do just that. We still have not heard any reply - Yes or No - from them.

This might be the time ask again "Our supplier can no longer get the plastic insignia."

arajca

Quote from: wacapgh on March 10, 2008, 08:01:02 PM
Quote from: arajca on March 10, 2008, 03:24:52 AM
Or we could just use the existing CAP embroidered grade insignia on dark blue.

There's a NB item from almost two years ago asking USAF for permission to do just that. We still have not heard any reply - Yes or No - from them.

This might be the time ask again "Our supplier can no longer get the plastic insignia."
The AF may just approve it since this problem is beyond our control and it's not about trying to look just like the AF.

mikeylikey

I honestly believe the AF will just say...."take the rank off the shoulders altogether, you already have it on the badge".

However if they don't, I would suggest we use the same colors the AF uses, why would we use navy/MC rank insignia colors, were not their Auxiliary?!?!?
What's up monkeys?

Eagle400

Quote from: mikeylikey on March 10, 2008, 08:59:14 PM
I honestly believe the AF will just say...."take the rank off the shoulders altogether, you already have it on the badge".

However if they don't, I would suggest we use the same colors the AF uses, why would we use navy/MC rank insignia colors, were not their Auxiliary?!?!?

I can almost certainly say that the Air Force will not let CAP use the same flight suit rank insignia colors they do.  They have already forbidden CAP from doing this with the BDU, and that is why CAP is still stuck with the ultramarine blue cloth insignia and tapes.

Full color rank insignia just like the kind on the BDU is the best option in my opinion.  It is distinctive but similar to the Air Force.  If you have a CAP officer wearing full color rank insignia on the flight suit, he/she won't be mistaken for an AF officer.

In fact, with the current plastic rank insignia, a CAP officer is more likely to be mistaken for an AF officer than if the full color rank insignias are worn.       

JayT

Quote from: CCSE on March 10, 2008, 09:11:10 PM
Quote from: mikeylikey on March 10, 2008, 08:59:14 PM
I honestly believe the AF will just say...."take the rank off the shoulders altogether, you already have it on the badge".

However if they don't, I would suggest we use the same colors the AF uses, why would we use navy/MC rank insignia colors, were not their Auxiliary?!?!?

I can almost certainly say that the Air Force will not let CAP use the same flight suit rank insignia colors they do.  They have already forbidden CAP from doing this with the BDU, and that is why CAP is still stuck with the ultramarine blue cloth insignia and tapes.

Full color rank insignia just like the kind on the BDU is the best option in my opinion.  It is distinctive but similar to the Air Force.  If you have a CAP officer wearing full color rank insignia on the flight suit, he/she won't be mistaken for an AF officer.

In fact, with the current plastic rank insignia, a CAP officer is more likely to be mistaken for an AF officer than if the full color rank insignias are worn.       

Guys, how about a little pride in our CAP uniforms. I know the ultramarine stuff is ugly, but let's have pride in it! I'm glad it's ugly!
"Eagerness and thrill seeking in others' misery is psychologically corrosive, and is also rampant in EMS. It's a natural danger of the job. It will be something to keep under control, something to fight against."

SSgt Rudin

Quote from: mikeylikey on March 10, 2008, 08:59:14 PM
I honestly believe the AF will just say...."take the rank off the shoulders altogether, you already have it on the badge".

However if they don't, I would suggest we use the same colors the AF uses, why would we use navy/MC rank insignia colors, were not their Auxiliary?!?!?

My only reasoning for suggesting those is because they are full color, the Air Force only has subdued insignia for the flight suit. All tough I would not object to the dark blue, that may just make it easier to get permission to use dark blue on the BDU's or ABU's.
SSgt Jordan Rudin, CAP

Eagle400

Quote from: JThemann on March 10, 2008, 09:30:22 PM
Guys, how about a little pride in our CAP uniforms. I know the ultramarine stuff is ugly, but let's have pride in it!

Well, since the ultramarine blue dosen't seem to be going away anytime soon, for now we have no choice.

Quote from: JThemann on March 10, 2008, 09:30:22 PMI'm glad it's ugly!

I'm not.  I guess this is where we differ in thought.  

Dark blue looks more professional and doesn't hurt the eyes as much.  CAP is already wearing dark blue rank insignia on the blue flight suit, anyway.  For the sake of standardization, it would make sense to just switch over to dark blue for every applicable uniform.    

DrJbdm

QuoteGuys, how about a little pride in our CAP uniforms. I know the ultramarine stuff is ugly, but let's have pride in it! I'm glad it's ugly!

   Dude, you need some serious help.  The fashion police are already on our butt, we don't need to be committing any more fashion felonies!

Smokey

BTW....I watched the movie  Andromeda Strain this morning (1971)....the Air Force characters had the ultramarine blue name tapes in the movie.  It looked bad even then!!!!

As of last year...I ran into a regular AF female Lt Col who still wore plastic grade insignia on her flightsuit.  She was in the medical field. She is retired now.
If you stand for nothing, you will fall for anything.
To err is human, to blame someone else shows good management skills.

JohnKachenmeister

Quote from: 2d Lt Rudin on March 10, 2008, 02:57:01 AM
So back to getting rid of the plastic encased grade insignia. We could always use Navy rank insignia for flight suits. Full color grade insignia on OD, added bonus the edges are already finished  :)



There are slight design differences on the captain, major, and lt. co. ranks on the Navy versions.
Another former CAP officer

piperl4

Vanguard does not have the plastic Captains bars anymore. I decided to try the dark blue suit just for the heck of it and to make life easy. I ordered embroidered Captains bars and it said for the dark blue flying suit. Now they came in and they are silver/white on dark blue backgrounds. Can someone tell me if this is indeed correct. I read the reg as saying they must be "dark blue" in color not referring to the background but the bars. So even with the dark blue flying suit which is really nice by the way and ebay has the same nomex suit for a 1/4 the cost. they still do not have the proper bars. Am I wrong in this. The Silver/white looks ok but just a little to bright against the dark blue.

Eeyore

All of the insignia that we wear is full color insignia, never subdued.

arajca

Dark blue refers to the color of the fabric, not the insignia. Just like ultramarine blue is the color of the fabric, not the insignia.

Eagle400

Quote from: piperl4 on March 20, 2008, 07:45:00 PM
Vanguard does not have the plastic Captains bars anymore. I decided to try the dark blue suit just for the heck of it and to make life easy. I ordered embroidered Captains bars and it said for the dark blue flying suit. Now they came in and they are silver/white on dark blue backgrounds. Can someone tell me if this is indeed correct. I read the reg as saying they must be "dark blue" in color not referring to the background but the bars. So even with the dark blue flying suit which is really nice by the way and ebay has the same nomex suit for a 1/4 the cost. they still do not have the proper bars. Am I wrong in this. The Silver/white looks ok but just a little to bright against the dark blue.

Silver should be fine.  If someone gets worked up because your 1st Lt bars are silver instead of white, just brush it off; most people don't care.  In fact, silver looks much better than white.   

What vanguard is probably doing is selling the old rank insignias that AF missileers used to wear with the same type of flight suit.  

IMO, all embroidered CAP officer insignia should be gold and silver, regardless of background fabric.  This white and orange stuff is really tacky.  Not only that, but the colors do not match their metal counterparts.

And when you think about it, silver/gold officer rank insignia are entirely appropriate for the blue flight suit; the plastic ranks were also full color. 

DNall

Not a very good picture, but these guys make Army/AF-style grade full-color on OD background:
http://www.1800nametape.com/vadf.htm#OFFICER

Obviously, vangaurd already does our full color on ultramarine blue. No problem to switch background fabric to something already widely avail & used. Any embroidery operation should be able to turn that around pretty quickly.

MIKE

The OD ones might be closer in appearance to what we had with the plastic encased, but I think it would be better to have the same insignia for all the bags with the navy blue background insignia already produced, instead of insignia that is only worn on the sage green flight suit and jackets.
Mike Johnston

mikeylikey

Quote from: MIKE on March 22, 2008, 02:57:46 PM
The OD ones might be closer in appearance to what we had with the plastic encased, but I think it would be better to have the same insignia for all the bags with the navy blue background insignia already produced, instead of insignia that is only worn on the sage green flight suit and jackets.

You need to also factor in how many blue bags are being worn as opposed to green bags.  Why make more of one item if another item is already available, and matches better.  Why must I wear a blue piece of cloth, just to make those with it already even happier??
What's up monkeys?

DNall

#58
^ second, plus it's really just a matter of aesthetics & you're talking about a 75cent item. I'm all for dark blue tapes on the BBDU & OD on the BDU as well (w/ full color print), but that's another thread we've already done a couple three times.

In all honesty, this is, "hey AETC/CC, this item is no longer commercially avail or economically producible, we need to switch to this lower cost off the shelf item with the same appearance & still distinguishable form AF. check yes or no." Oh yeah.. and because following all regs (including the uniform man) is a factor in insurance coverage you help provide, our members are currently either unable to wear flight suits correctly. That means they are either risking insurance claims & possible legal action, or they are not wearing personal protective gear (flight suits), which we assess to be a safety hazard. Please help us address this matter with a reasonable solution.

Smokey

Even if we were to be allowed the regular subdued AF rank on green (cheapest and easiest alternative) our command patch still identifies us as other than regular AF. Sheesh ...what's the big deal. The worst that could happen is someone giving us a salute!   Why must we complicate everything?
If you stand for nothing, you will fall for anything.
To err is human, to blame someone else shows good management skills.