NHQ Uniform Committee

[jb512]

Excellent job, and glad that you guys are using member input.  Looks like a good compromise of the most popular opinions of the group.

The blue epaulets all the way around is a great idea.  I would only add a suggestion that we change from the short stubby size that we have for the current gray ones and make male and female versions that match the size and shape of the AF epaulets.  Maybe I'm being picky...

For what its worth, Jason, I don't think you're being picky.  Vanguard makes Army and Air Force epaulet sleeves in male and female sizes, and they are of better quality that that which they sell to us.  They are also cheaper.

I'm not looking for charity, only parity.

Thanks.  If the blue is approved, common sense would have them take the AF slides they're already producing in the two sizes and just add the CAP embroidery.

[Eclipse]

^ It might be the primary submission.....but when you list "alternatives" you are willing to accept, why submit anything at all? 

I am getting sick of the uniform issues.  When will 39-1 be rewritten??  Do you have a timeframe, or has everything been pushed into getting blue slides and the Corporates to feel better?

You might want to actually read the thread, part of the mission here is to correct 39-1 at the same time.

[Phillip]

LtCol White:

If I may, here are my thoughts -

ABU
The more I see white/sage insignia on the uniform, the more I like it.  Personally, I think it is distinctive enough from the USAF version.

Service Uniform
Silver nametags are the way to go for the coats, no question.  And blue epaulets on the coat look so much better than the gray.   

I don't see USAF balking at the idea of blue epaulets and the silver nametags, but if they do, I'd rather have the epaulets.

Photos
Your example photos are great, and should be how the uniform combos are presented in the next 39-1 (i.e. sans people).  I'd recommend close up photos of areas such as ribbon & badge placement on the coats and shirts as well.


Also, I mentioned this earlier in the thread, and though I'd bring it up again because I didn't see it mentioned since then:  Will the board as USAF permission for the black A-2 to be worn with USAF style service (and flight too I guess) uniforms?  I only ask because I find the blue lightweight jacket inadequate during the winter months.  That and they are easier to obtain.

[JayT]

LtCol White:

If I may, here are my thoughts -

ABU
The more I see white/sage insignia on the uniform, the more I like it.  Personally, I think it is distinctive enough from the USAF version.

Service Uniform
Silver nametags are the way to go for the coats, no question.  And blue epaulets on the coat look so much better than the gray.   

I don't see USAF balking at the idea of blue epaulets and the silver nametags, but if they do, I'd rather have the epaulets.

Photos
Your example photos are great, and should be how the uniform combos are presented in the next 39-1 (i.e. sans people).  I'd recommend close up photos of areas such as ribbon & badge placement on the coats and shirts as well.


Also, I mentioned this earlier in the thread, and though I'd bring it up again because I didn't see it mentioned since then:  Will the board as USAF permission for the black A-2 to be worn with USAF style service (and flight too I guess) uniforms?  I only ask because I find the blue lightweight jacket inadequate during the winter months.  That and they are easier to obtain.

You can wear a sweater under the light weight jacket.

[LtCol White]

LtCol White:

If I may, here are my thoughts -

ABU
The more I see white/sage insignia on the uniform, the more I like it.  Personally, I think it is distinctive enough from the USAF version.

Service Uniform
Silver nametags are the way to go for the coats, no question.  And blue epaulets on the coat look so much better than the gray.   

I don't see USAF balking at the idea of blue epaulets and the silver nametags, but if they do, I'd rather have the epaulets.

Photos
Your example photos are great, and should be how the uniform combos are presented in the next 39-1 (i.e. sans people).  I'd recommend close up photos of areas such as ribbon & badge placement on the coats and shirts as well.


Also, I mentioned this earlier in the thread, and though I'd bring it up again because I didn't see it mentioned since then:  Will the board as USAF permission for the black A-2 to be worn with USAF style service (and flight too I guess) uniforms?  I only ask because I find the blue lightweight jacket inadequate during the winter months.  That and they are easier to obtain.

No, we will not ask for the Black Leather A-2 for wear with the USAF uniform. The reason is that it is not an item authorized for wear with USAF uniforms by USAF and therefore USAF will not consider any non-USAF item for wear with USAF uniforms. We know this for fact so there is no reason to even ask.

[AlphaSigOU]

Also, I mentioned this earlier in the thread, and though I'd bring it up again because I didn't see it mentioned since then:  Will the board as USAF permission for the black A-2 to be worn with USAF style service (and flight too I guess) uniforms?  I only ask because I find the blue lightweight jacket inadequate during the winter months.  That and they are easier to obtain.

It's been asked before and it's HIGHLY unlikely Mama Blue will let us wear the brown A-2 leather jacket. And most certainly not the black corporate A-2 jacket on AF style.

The A-2 leather jacket in the Air Force is issued only to active, mission qualified aircrew, air battle managers and missileers. It's their initiation badge and the 'ops mafia' in the AF would rather die than give up the jacket to the 'shoe clerks'. Especially heinous to them would be giving it up to the 'wannabe Air Force'. That would give the shoe clerks a conniption fit! 

I would rather see a proper leather-backed CAP MAJCOM patch for the leather jacket.

[DrJbdm]

Lt. Col. White,

   Has the board considered a phase in date for when we will be allowed to start transitioning into the ABU?

[LtCol White]

Also, I mentioned this earlier in the thread, and though I'd bring it up again because I didn't see it mentioned since then:  Will the board as USAF permission for the black A-2 to be worn with USAF style service (and flight too I guess) uniforms?  I only ask because I find the blue lightweight jacket inadequate during the winter months.  That and they are easier to obtain.

It's been asked before and it's HIGHLY unlikely Mama Blue will let us wear the brown A-2 leather jacket. And most certainly not the black corporate A-2 jacket on AF style.

The A-2 leather jacket in the Air Force is issued only to active, mission qualified aircrew, air battle managers and missileers. It's their initiation badge and the 'ops mafia' in the AF would rather die than give up the jacket to the 'shoe clerks'. Especially heinous to them would be giving it up to the 'wannabe Air Force'. That would give the shoe clerks a conniption fit! 

I would rather see a proper leather-backed CAP MAJCOM patch for the leather jacket.

Its generally not a good idea to keep asking for something they have already denied when there is no other reason than it would look cool. We don't really need that. Therefore we will not make that request again.

We are asking with the return to the original, already USAF approved MAJCOM patch that an appropriate size/quality version be produced for the Black A-2 for the Corporate Uniform.

[LtCol White]

Lt. Col. White,

   Has the board considered a phase in date for when we will be allowed to start transitioning into the ABU?

On the ABU we are going to ask for initial authorization to begin June 1 2008 with a mandatory phase date of 2011 to be consistant with USAF. This is something that USAF has total control over so we just have to wait and see what they think on this one. They may tell us we have to wait until June 09. It just depends on their logistics system and when they feel it can handle the supply.

[RiverAux]

2007?

[mikeylikey]

I am just a "Negative Nancy" when it comes to issues that will effect CAP for years. 

We have to look at both sides of the situation, from my view, it looks like we are trying to make the corporate uniform owners feel better about themselves at the expense of the AF style owners. 

Why would we ditch the brushed metal nameplate in favor a plastic one, when the AF will be wearing the brushed plate FOR YEARS?  Why would that even be a suggestion??  Weird, right?

I guess I just don't get what this committee is trying to do.  Perhaps if I bought a Corporate jacket I would understand better.

[LtCol White]

2007?

Sorry, typo. Has been corrected.

[DrJbdm]

Mikey, I know you believe this is all about trying to make those in the Corporates "feel" better, but I assure you, that has nothing to do with it. the plastic nameplate is only part of a second option for trying to get blue slides. Let me place the question to you: If AF said we will give you blue slides but you will have to wear the blue nametag on the service coat. What would your responce be?

[mikeylikey]

^ Understood. 

[LtCol White]

I am just a "Negative Nancy" when it comes to issues that will effect CAP for years. 

We have to look at both sides of the situation, from my view, it looks like we are trying to make the corporate uniform owners feel better about themselves at the expense of the AF style owners. 

Why would we ditch the brushed metal nameplate in favor a plastic one, when the AF will be wearing the brushed plate FOR YEARS?  Why would that even be a suggestion??  Weird, right?

I guess I just don't get what this committee is trying to do.  Perhaps if I bought a Corporate jacket I would understand better.

Yes, are are most definitely a negative nancy.

Perhaps you just need to READ the 1st post I made here. It is stated QUITE clearly. No one is proposing dropping the metal nameplate. Let me say it again NO ONE IS PROPOSING DROPPING THE METAL NAMEPLATE.

The proposal includes a BACKUP choice for USAF in the event they feel there needs to be more difference than just the blue epaulets. Rather than give them ONE choice to which the answer is YES or NO, its better to give a second option. I doubt many will be upset if they have to give up the metal nameplate for the sake of getting the blue epaulets back and eliminating the gray. We think the plastic nameplate is an acceptable compromise to improve the overall appearance of the uniform even if it isn't our 1st choice. Anyone who is horrified at losing the metal nameplate needs to seriously rethink why they are in CAP.

Finally, NO ONE IS PROPOSING DROPPING THE METAL NAMEPLATE

[Phillip]

You can wear a sweater under the light weight jacket.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I love my sweater.   Sometimes though, it just isn't enough.  And sometimes it is too much once in doors.  I was just hoping to have another option available.

No, we will not ask for the Black Leather A-2 for wear with the USAF uniform. The reason is that it is not an item authorized for wear with USAF uniforms by USAF and therefore USAF will not consider any non-USAF item for wear with USAF uniforms. We know this for fact so there is no reason to even ask.

Point noted.  Thanks for your reply.

Also, I mentioned this earlier in the thread, and though I'd bring it up again because I didn't see it mentioned since then:  Will the board as USAF permission for the black A-2 to be worn with USAF style service (and flight too I guess) uniforms?  I only ask because I find the blue lightweight jacket inadequate during the winter months.  That and they are easier to obtain.

It's been asked before and it's HIGHLY unlikely Mama Blue will let us wear the brown A-2 leather jacket. And most certainly not the black corporate A-2 jacket on AF style.

The A-2 leather jacket in the Air Force is issued only to active, mission qualified aircrew, air battle managers and missileers. It's their initiation badge and the 'ops mafia' in the AF would rather die than give up the jacket to the 'shoe clerks'. Especially heinous to them would be giving it up to the 'wannabe Air Force'. That would give the shoe clerks a conniption fit! 

I would rather see a proper leather-backed CAP MAJCOM patch for the leather jacket.

Its generally not a good idea to keep asking for something they have already denied when there is no other reason than it would look cool. We don't really need that. Therefore we will not make that request again.

I didn't ask about it because it thought it was cool,  I just wanted another option because I was cold.

Now, I'm actually kinda sorry I even brought it up.   

[AlphaSigOU]

It's generally not a good idea to keep asking for something they have already denied when there is no other reason than it would look cool. We don't really need that. Therefore we will not make that request again.

Exactimundo! Most of us already know it ain't gonna happen, and that's that. But there'll be someone out there (hopefully not in our Esteemed Assembly) who will wear an A-2 leather jacket with USAF-style blues. ("Why? Because I can!") To add further insult to injury, it'll probably be the black corporate A-2. Wait until the RealAirForce 'uniform nazis' go to town... - CHOMP! - (Not targeting you, Lt. Overgaard; unfortunately we already suffer a bad track record on USAF-style uniform wear, especially with some in the RealAirForce®.)

We are asking with the return to the original, already USAF approved MAJCOM patch that an appropriate size/quality version be produced for the Black A-2 for the Corporate Uniform.

Danke, Herr Oberstleutnant!

[JohnKachenmeister]

You can wear a sweater under the light weight jacket.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I love my sweater.   Sometimes though, it just isn't enough.  And sometimes it is too much once in doors.  I was just hoping to have another option available.

No, we will not ask for the Black Leather A-2 for wear with the USAF uniform. The reason is that it is not an item authorized for wear with USAF uniforms by USAF and therefore USAF will not consider any non-USAF item for wear with USAF uniforms. We know this for fact so there is no reason to even ask.

Point noted.  Thanks for your reply.

Also, I mentioned this earlier in the thread, and though I'd bring it up again because I didn't see it mentioned since then:  Will the board as USAF permission for the black A-2 to be worn with USAF style service (and flight too I guess) uniforms?  I only ask because I find the blue lightweight jacket inadequate during the winter months.  That and they are easier to obtain.

It's been asked before and it's HIGHLY unlikely Mama Blue will let us wear the brown A-2 leather jacket. And most certainly not the black corporate A-2 jacket on AF style.

The A-2 leather jacket in the Air Force is issued only to active, mission qualified aircrew, air battle managers and missileers. It's their initiation badge and the 'ops mafia' in the AF would rather die than give up the jacket to the 'shoe clerks'. Especially heinous to them would be giving it up to the 'wannabe Air Force'. That would give the shoe clerks a conniption fit! 

I would rather see a proper leather-backed CAP MAJCOM patch for the leather jacket.

Its generally not a good idea to keep asking for something they have already denied when there is no other reason than it would look cool. We don't really need that. Therefore we will not make that request again.

I didn't ask about it because it thought it was cool,  I just wanted another option because I was cold.

Now, I'm actually kinda sorry I even brought it up.   

Phil:

Try the sage green flight jacket with the orange liner.  We are authorized that jacket with flight gear, and that is far warmer than the lightweight blue.

[afgeo4]

Also, try the extreme cold weather parka! It's an authorized item with USAF uniforms and any commander who is going to comment on you wearing it in extremely cold weather deserves to be shot reminded of the mission and importance of taking care of your volunteer airmen members.

[NEBoom]

Lt Col White,
Wow.  I didn't think going for blue shoulder marks on the AF style uniform was even a viable option.  If you can make that stick, I'd be all for it.  And the blue marks look much better on the service coats than I ever thought they might.  Good deal all around.

Will add my voice to the chorus regarding nameplates.  Obviously sliver would be the best but would not have a problem changing to blue if it meant getting the blue shoulder marks back.

Since we're looking at a potentially short time before we can start wearing ABUs, am I to assume that insignia on current Woodland BDUs would remain unchanged until their phase-out?  I'd suggest that if it hasn't already been considered.  No sense in making a change on a uniform that will be heading in to phase-out.

On the ABUs I'm going to have to be the lone holdout for blue tapes.  I still think one color that will work on both ABUs and corporate BBDUs, and one color rank insignia that will work on both as well as both the green and blue flight suits is the way we should be going.

Thanks for your efforts!