NHQ Uniform Committee

[LtCol White]

Sir,

I am for all the uniform options displayed here understanding the position of the Air Force. The look is professional and cognizant of both organizations. Of course, after all is said and done we ALL will have to invest several hundred dollars more in uniform changes. Will the cadets have to wear the new ABU also?

These changes involve very minimal costs. On the service uniform you're only looking at epaulets and nametag.

The exception is the ABU and yes, cadets will have to wear this uniform.

[JohnKachenmeister]

As a "General rule," if there are any rules to uniforms, our wear-out dates for old uniforms is about twice that which is allowed for the AF.  The AF intends to phase in the ABU over 5 years.  If the same rule applies, you will have to scrap what's left of your BDU's in 2017 or so.

[riffraff]

Lt Col White:
Great job in 'threading the needle' around the many divergent opinions/desires for the uniform!! The proposed/suggested changes are a well thought out approach that addresses many of the issues brought up in this thread.

My only comment is regarding the color of tapes/badging:
While I think the white-on-sage looks good on the ABU, adopting this color would look (IMO) terrible on any of the blue field uniforms. I also think USAF will likely have an issue -- vis-a-vis not distinctive enough.

To minimize costs to members, extended wear-out dates for those already using the ultramarine tapes/badging on their current uniforms.

[LtCol White]

Lt Col White:
Great job in 'threading the needle' around the many divergent opinions/desires for the uniform!! The proposed/suggested changes are a well thought out approach that addresses many of the issues brought up in this thread.

My only comment is regarding the color of tapes/badging:
While I think the white-on-sage looks good on the ABU, adopting this color would look (IMO) terrible on any of the blue field uniforms. I also think USAF will likely have an issue -- vis-a-vis not distinctive enough.

To minimize costs to members, extended wear-out dates for those already using the ultramarine tapes/badging on their current uniforms.

BBDU's would have the navy/white insignia. Sage would only be for the ABU

[jeders]

Here's my new question. Now that you guys seem to have things fairly finalized, when are you going to present these things to the Air Force, or are you still finalizing?

[MIKE]

I wouldn't call changing a bunch of insignia finalized.  Addressing the existing deficiencies should be job 1.

[jb512]

Excellent job, and glad that you guys are using member input.  Looks like a good compromise of the most popular opinions of the group.

The blue epaulets all the way around is a great idea.  I would only add a suggestion that we change from the short stubby size that we have for the current gray ones and make male and female versions that match the size and shape of the AF epaulets.  Maybe I'm being picky...

[Eclipse]

Lt. Col. White, et al,

I understand that one of the missions of this committee is to maximize the use of grade insignia and other items across the various uniforms, and that is a good idea.

However, please do not spend an inordinate amount of time or re-development effort with only cost in mind. 

As configured above, either service dress will require minimal cost and effort to reconfigure, and as mentioned, the expectation is phase-ins for those on a budget.

Too many of our uniform choices and designs have been effected by well-intentioned, but misguided efforts to control cost, which is usually a small difference, but effects our look for years.

We also need to directly address the wear of ABU's by cadets.  My suggestion is that ABU's not be approved for cadet wear until >AFTER< the initial senior-member phase out.

Otherwise we will wind up with a handful of cadets in ABU's who have better financial resources or access to uniforms (for whatever reason).  In the interim, the cadets would be the intended targets of the uniforms being phased-out by senior members.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Excellent job, and glad that you guys are using member input.  Looks like a good compromise of the most popular opinions of the group.

The blue epaulets all the way around is a great idea.  I would only add a suggestion that we change from the short stubby size that we have for the current gray ones and make male and female versions that match the size and shape of the AF epaulets.  Maybe I'm being picky...

For what its worth, Jason, I don't think you're being picky.  Vanguard makes Army and Air Force epaulet sleeves in male and female sizes, and they are of better quality that that which they sell to us.  They are also cheaper.

I'm not looking for charity, only parity.

[JayT]

Lt. Col. White, et al,


We also need to directly address the wear of ABU's by cadets.  My suggestion is that ABU's not be approved for cadet wear until >AFTER< the initial senior-member phase out.

Otherwise we will wind up with a handful of cadets in ABU's who have better financial resources or access to uniforms (for whatever reason).  In the interim, the cadets would be the intended targets of the uniforms being phased-out by senior members.

Don't take this the wrong way, but thats Senior Member elitest crap.

If the old guys get to wear it, the cadets get to wear it.

[Smokey]

Lt Col White,

Great job.....looks good.

My vote ....metal nametag on the coat, blue plastic on the shirt
sage for the ABU

We must get away from ultramarine blue....it so.......70ish along with disco and  advocado refrigerators

[jeders]

Lt. Col. White, et al,


We also need to directly address the wear of ABU's by cadets.  My suggestion is that ABU's not be approved for cadet wear until >AFTER< the initial senior-member phase out.

Otherwise we will wind up with a handful of cadets in ABU's who have better financial resources or access to uniforms (for whatever reason).  In the interim, the cadets would be the intended targets of the uniforms being phased-out by senior members.

Don't take this the wrong way, but thats Senior Member elitest crap.

If the old guys get to wear it, the cadets get to wear it.

Agreed. Plus we have plenty of Senior Members who can't afford basic uniforms. No matter what, you're going to have people in both ABUs and BDUs at the same place, get over it.

[LtCol White]

Phase in for ABU's will be for all members at the same time. There will be no segregation of seniors and cadets for wear.

[Grumpy]

Lt Col White,

Great job.....looks good.

My vote ....metal nametag on the coat, blue plastic on the shirt
sage for the ABU

We must get away from ultramarine blue....it so.......70ish along with disco and  advocado refrigerators

Good Obs Smokey

[mikeylikey]

Umm......lets "align the corporate uniform to the AF uniform", not the other way around.  Some people here worked really hard to get the brushed metallic nameplate for the AF style jacket.  

Why would we go to plastic nameplate on the uniform coat when it is not an "issue" with the AF?

Leave the AF style jacket alone, if you want to make the grade slides blue, fine......but don't take away anything.  

As far as the ABU goes.....I seriously doubt the AF will approve anything but ultramarine blue.  

As for the comments about not letting Cadets into the ABU's....WHAT?!?  I agree that when we are allowed into whatever uniform.....it needs to be CAP wide.

I also would like to bring up a comment made by MIKE, about lets fix the major issues with the uniforms not just aesthetics.

[DrJbdm]

Lt Col. White,

   Sir, You have done oustanding work in trying to get all this in order and with trying to keep everyones suggestions in mind, I know that several compromises where in order. while I may not be happy with all the changes (ie: no metal rank on CSU) I can live with the compromise.

   I do have one question that I don't think you or anyone else had addressed; why are we submitting to the Air Force a request to wear the brushed metal nametag when the Air Force has already approved that for wear?

   I certainly hope and pray that the Air Force approves the blue slides. I think that is a much needed change. I also hope and pray that they also approve the sage green tapes for the ABU when that time comes.

  Thank you for all the hard work you and the other officers have done on this issue.

[LtCol White]

Lt Col. White,

   Sir, You have done oustanding work in trying to get all this in order and with trying to keep everyones suggestions in mind, I know that several compromises where in order. while I may not be happy with all the changes (ie: no metal rank on CSU) I can live with the compromise.

   I do have one question that I don't think you or anyone else had addressed; why are we submitting to the Air Force a request to wear the brushed metal nametag when the Air Force has already approved that for wear?

   I certainly hope and pray that the Air Force approves the blue slides. I think that is a much needed change. I also hope and pray that they also approve the sage green tapes for the ABU when that time comes.

  Thank you for all the hard work you and the other officers have done on this issue.

The proposal isn't asking for the metal nameplate. The plastic nameplate is the backup choice in the event that USAF doesn't feel the blue epaulets are quite distinct enough with the metal nameplate.

If we had to go to the plastic nameplate to get rid of the gray epaulets and have the blue epaulets on the coats and shirts, We think losing the metal nameplate is a small price to pay with that one item.

This being said, again, the Coats with the metal nameplate are the PRIMARY submission.

[mikeylikey]

^ It might be the primary submission.....but when you list "alternatives" you are willing to accept, why submit anything at all? 

I am getting sick of the uniform issues.  When will 39-1 be rewritten??  Do you have a timeframe, or has everything been pushed into getting blue slides and the Corporates to feel better?

[LtCol White]

^ It might be the primary submission.....but when you list "alternatives" you are willing to accept, why submit anything at all? 

I am getting sick of the uniform issues.  When will 39-1 be rewritten??  Do you have a timeframe, or has everything been pushed into getting blue slides and the Corporates to feel better?

Why are u always so negative? Obviuosly, you know nothing about proposal submissions. If you are so sick of the uniform issues, then stop participating in discussions. If you re-read the inital post on page #1, you'll see the purpose of this project is a complete overhaul of 39-1 as well as the align the two service uniforms. The priority issue as assigned was the service uniforms and ABU. These along with a few others will be submittied at the Winter Board in February. The larger revision and work on 39-1 is not something that can be done in 3 months if it is to be done properly and comprehensively.

As the proposals are being completed, they are being posted on here for comment and review. Feel free to hold your comments if you have nothing constructive to say.

[Pylon]

^ It might be the primary submission.....but when you list "alternatives" you are willing to accept, why submit anything at all? 

I am getting sick of the uniform issues.  When will 39-1 be rewritten??  Do you have a timeframe, or has everything been pushed into getting blue slides and the Corporates to feel better?

Hey mikey, there's a thread on ambiguities, errors, conflicts/contradictions, and gray areas in CAPM 39-1.  If you're aware of things that haven't been addressed, please do post them there.  We're compiling all of the issues before attempting to rewrite it.  That process is already underway, but as Lt Col White indicated, it is not a three month job - certainly not when done entirely by volunteers.

If you'd like to help with the re-write, please let us know where there are errors that we can address.