NHQ Uniform Committee

[MIKE]

They also have only one commanders badge.

I would delete the group commanders badge and institute a wear policy IAW AFI 36-2903.... I would keep the Command Service Ribbon, but I would make it time in service based and not echelon based since many of the senior commanders will already have NB or NEC badges etc.

[Hawk200]

I disagree - the command badge should be the honor of the sitting commander(s) ONLY, which means in most cases they can pass them from member to member.

I don't advocate anything that requires a member to give something they have purchased to someone else. I might do it voluntarily, but I don't think it should be required.

I would just soon get rid of the ribbon, I've got enough already. And make it optional for former commanders. Since there's a four badge limit, let them pick what they want to wear.

[BillB]

Sure there is a command ribbon, but how many people wear ribbons with the short sleeve USAF blues? The command badge worn under the name badge on the pocket, or pocket flap.

[Eclipse]

Sure there is a command ribbon, but how many people wear ribbons with the short sleeve USAF blues? The command badge worn under the name badge on the pocket, or pocket flap.

Lots, especially in the summer...

[Larry Mangum]

Submitted for the esteemed assembly's perusal and consideration by the NHQ Uniform Committee:

Here's a somewhat sensible wear policy for the AF-style FDU, CAP FDU and utility uniform, blatantly plagiarized from AFI 36-2903 with CAP-specific information from 39-1 replacing the AF-specific stuff.

Grade Insignia. Officers will wear vivid cloth grade insignia on each shoulder of the USAF-style, CAP FDU, utility uniform and Nomex-style flight jackets (Plastic covered grade insignia is not authorized). Grade will be sewn-on 5/8 inches from the shoulder seam, centered on the shoulder. Officer grade insignia cloth and cable (thread) standards: USAF-style and CAP FDU base cloth is [olive green or dark blue] Officer grade insignia will be white (cable #?) except for 2d Lt and Major which will be golden yellow (cable #?) Enlisted and cadet grade is included on the nametag of the USAF-style FDU and CAP FDU and Nomex-style flight jackets. Both officer and enlisted/cadet grade insignia on the black leather A-2 Flying Jacket is on the name tag only. EXCEPTION: Placement of General Officer (GO) stars on the USAF-style FDU, CAP FDU and Nomex jackets will be centered on the shoulder halfway between the neck and shoulder seam. Generals wear 1-inch stars on flight suits; 3/4-inch stars may be used if there is insufficient room for the 1-inch stars. GO grade insignia will be on base cloth [olive green or dark blue] GO stars will be white (cable #?) and displayed point-to-center.

Nametags. Cloth nametags for USAF-style FDU, CAP FDU, utility uniform and Nomex-style flight jackets will be 2 inches by 4 inches in size and worn over the left breast pocket. As a minimum, CAP aeronautical badge or specialty insignia (if awarded) are mandatory and nametags will contain individual's name and grade (grade is only mandatory for enlisted and cadet personnel). Embroidered badges will be silver (white) in color. Region and wing supplements to this instruction will standardize nametags (i.e., background/border colors, squadron logos, naming convention, etc). Nametags for black leather A-2 Flying Jacket will be 2 inches by 4 inches, brown or black leather or simulated leather. Emboss with silver wings/badges, first and last name, grade, and CAP. NOTE: Commanders authorized to wear the commander's badge will wear the badge on the left side of the nametag. The badge will be worn only while performing commander duties.

Right Breast Pocket. CAP MAJCOM-style patch will be centered above the right breast pocket. CAP MAJCOM-style patch for the right breast area of the black leather A-2 flying jacket will have a brown or black leather, simulated leather background.

Left Sleeve. The US flag, positioned no lower than 1 inch from shoulder seam. The US flag will be red, white, and blue with golden-yellow border portraying a straight flag, not a waving flag. The flag will be approximately 2 by 3 inches, with the union to the front and stripes trailing. Chapter 1, Title 4, United States Code, specifies the flag colors as red, white, and blue; therefore, subdued flag replicas are not authorized for wear on the USAF-style FDU, CAP FDU or utility uniform.

Right Sleeve. The unit emblem (squadron patch) will be worn as authorized through region or wing supplement to this instruction. When authorized to fly with another unit, individuals may wear the emblem of the unit they are assigned to for flight duties.

Add-On Patches. Regions and wings will publish guidance on wear of add-on patches (i.e., flying
hour milestone, instructor, flight examiner scroll, etc). Campaign/exercise patches are not authorized. Region and wing commanders must approve all emblems/patches not specifically addressed in this instruction.

Neckwear. The wear of scarves will be addressed by region and wing supplements. When authorized, scarves will be worn around the neck and tucked in.

The Air Force brown leather A-2 flight jacket is NOT authorized with this or any Air Force style uniform. The CWU-45/P or CWU-36/P style green Nomex or nylon flight jackets may be worn ONLY with the AF-style FDU. The CAP black leather flight jacket is authorized with the CAP FDU or any CAP distinctive corporate uniform. Alternately, the CWU 45/P or CWU 36/P style flight jackets in dark blue Nomex or nylon may be worn.


AUTHORIZED RIGHT SLEEVE PATCHES

AFRCC SAR Management Course Graduate
CAP Stan/Eval Check Pilot
CAP Proficient Pilot
CAP Cadet Orientation Pilot
CAP NESA patch
CAP Emergency Services (either Pluto or T-34 style)
Region patch (if authorized by region or wing supplement)
Wing patch (if authorized by region or wing supplement)
Group patch (if authorized by region or wing supplement)
Squadron patch (if authorized by region or wing supplement)

Only one of these patches may be worn on the right sleeve.

OK guys... any constructive crtiticism is welcome, but don't kill the messenger, alright? 

How about adding the "Inland Sar" patch as it is a harder course then the AFRCC SAR management course and taught by the same people.

[Pylon]

How about adding the "Inland Sar" patch as it is a harder course then the AFRCC SAR management course and taught by the same people.

Sounds pretty reasonable.

[JCJ]

The only reason not to allow former CCs to wear the command badge is that we give out a ribbon for command service, so the badge would be redundant.

So the answer is easy - get rid of the ribbon and allow the badge.

The National Board actually wears the Command Service Ribbon, the NEC Badge, and the Command Badge.

Not really true for a sitting NB or NEC member.  The command badge is for sitting squadron and group commanders only.  It goes off the uniform at the end of a tour (although I think it should follow the USAF wear policy).  A wing or region commander version was not adopted becasue wing or region commanders wear the NB or NEC badge, respectively.  NB or NEC members may, however, wear their NB or NEC badge after their tour is over.  So if you saw a sitting squadron or group commander who was a former NB or NEC member, he/she might wear a NB or NEC badge and a command badge.

The command service ribbon is for at least one year in command.  A NB member in his first year, who has never served before in command (it has happenned) wouldn't rate one.

[Hawk200]

It was pointed out to me in another thread that I should put this here, so here goes:

Green flightsuit:

1. Currently it says that the ES patch may be worn on the right breast. On the blue flightsuit page, it says "right breast pocket". The two need to be the same criteria.

2. Blue flightsuit allows wear of a region patch in place of the CAP command patch. This option is not listed for either the green suit, or the blue utility.

Suggestion for the flightsuits: Mandate unit insignia on the right shoulder, and make the left shoulder the "optional" patch shoulder. This is more inline with the Air Force way on flightsuits. Considering that CAP wears many things on our green bags that aren't even authorized on AF ones, we should look more into mirroring them.

Also, the blue bag page should say literally the same thing as the page for the green, with the addition of a statement that military badges and insignia are not authorized on the corporate one.

[RiverAux]

That reminds me:  Why do we have two different ES patches?  If we're going to have them at all (which I don't think is necessary), we should only have 1 version. 

[Pylon]

It was pointed out to me in another thread that I should put this here, so here goes:

Green flightsuit:

1. Currently it says that the ES patch may be worn on the right breast. On the blue flightsuit page, it says "right breast pocket". The two need to be the same criteria.

2. Blue flightsuit allows wear of a region patch in place of the CAP command patch. This option is not listed for either the green suit, or the blue utility.

Suggestion for the flightsuits: Mandate unit insignia on the right shoulder, and make the left shoulder the "optional" patch shoulder. This is more inline with the Air Force way on flightsuits. Considering that CAP wears many things on our green bags that aren't even authorized on AF ones, we should look more into mirroring them.

Also, the blue bag page should say literally the same thing as the page for the green, with the addition of a statement that military badges and insignia are not authorized on the corporate one.

Also good points.  Thank you.

[DNall]

would concur on standardizing policy for blue/grn flt suits.. cut the util, cut the ES patch from all the above, and all together for that matter.

Oh yeah, one more thing while we're on psatches. Badges worn on blues should be embroidered for BDUs, not a big honkin patch. The wear policies should be standardized & mirrior AF to the greatest extent possible. That should clean up some things on both ends of that equation.

[afgeo4]

As per transition from BDU to ABU for CAP. If such a transition is planned and okay'd by the USAF (as previously stated on this board), please allow for wear of Sage Green boots with BDU uniform until ABU uniforms are authorized and available for purchase.

The availability of quality BDUs is dropping quickly with almost none left at AAFES. The quality at many Army/Navy suppliers is often questionable and the prices at Vanguard  are high. With the eye on the future, I believe the Civil Air Patrol should be transitioning to the USAF Airman Battle Uniform (ABU). The black combat boots are disappearing as well. As combat uniforms switch to suede boots of branch specific colors we are seeing a trend in growing prices for black leather combat boots while prices for the same version of boots in Sage/ABU color is much lower. The difference in ICB boots can be as much as $40 with black leather being the more expensive. That's from the same vendor!

The USAF has recently authorized wear of Sage Green ABU boot with BDUs as a transitional uniform while also allowing the desert/army boots with ABU as transitional combination. With all this in mind, I request 2 things:

1. A transition to Airman Battle Uniform be in place with phase-in date that will be accepted by the USAF and NHQ.
2. All patches be removed from ABU once transitioned to preserve USAF heritage.
3. Nametape color be changed to something that works well with ABU (white lettering on ABU or navy blue background?)
3. ACU pattern and black accessories (vests, camelbaks, rucks) be authorized for wear with ABU uniform (as it is for the USAF) once the ABU is authorized for wear.
2. Sage Green boots be authorized for wear with BDU as a transitional item.

[SAR-EMT1]

Sure there is a command ribbon, but how many people wear ribbons with the short sleeve USAF blues? The command badge worn under the name badge on the pocket, or pocket flap.

Lots, especially in the summer...

Maybe up in Chicago, but in the lower parts of the state many Seniors AND Cadets tend to follow USAF tradition and keep all ribbons off the blue shirts (both ss and ls) and wear them exclusively on the Service Dress. (Ribbons on the shirts is a BIG taboo, skygods and some /CC's being the exception) Dont know about other states though.

[JayT]

Are black boots really disappearing? I can still go to any surplus store in my area, any police store, any EMS store, etc etc etc, and find regulation black boots.

[afgeo4]

Are black boots really disappearing? I can still go to any surplus store in my area, any police store, any EMS store, etc etc etc, and find regulation black boots.

Dunno about your area, but EMT and PD personnel here wear soft Magnum boots which are not military boots. They're black and they're leather, yes, but they're more like high-top sneakers than combat boots.

Plus, much of what you see in "surplus" stores isn't surplus, it's Chinese or Korean knockoffs. Made to look like the original, but last just a few garrison wears until they start forming leaks or stop taking shines. Many have to be resoled after just a few months of garrison type wear. Now... they're not expensive and they're widely available, but why give the members and their families the headaches and burdens of buying 6 pairs of boots for $49.99 when one pair of true Belleville or Altama boots will do at $99.99?

Also, I'm not saying that black boots with BDUs should be phased out. Not at all. They should not be authorized for wear with ABU, but certainly they're fine with BDUs. What I'm saying is that I think that either desert or sage boots should be authorized as well, while we go through the adaptation of ABUs.

[LtCol White]

Please get back on topic guys

[Tim Medeiros]

One thing I'd like to see is verbage on when shoulder cords are worn.  I've often seen wing authorized shoulder cords being worn outside the wing, at region and national activities and to me that just doesn't seem quite right.

Personally I like the white/gray/blazer combination, it seems like a good uniform to introduce the organization to new potential sources of income and support in especially when you don't know how much they support the "military look".  Example, in my DDR job, when proposing a DDR event at a school, I'd most likely wear the white/gray with blazer to make the proposal, especially if they don't have a JROTC program, until I can feel out their stance on military looking people being within their halls.

[afgeo4]

Please get back on topic guys

Thought uniform items that would save members money WAS the topic...

[dogden]

Lt Col White,

An item that has been overlooked in CAPM 39-1 is maternity uniforms for females. My wife is expecting our third child currently, the second since being a CAP member and if all remains the same she will have to go inactive once she hits a certain point because she has no uniform to wear.

My simple proposal is to allow a white maternity aviator to be worn untucked with maternity grey or AF slacks or with the AF blue jumper. All insignia can be worn IAW AFI 36-2903. By using a white aviator shirt we do not need approval from the AF.

My long term goal is to have permission to wear the AF maternity uniforms since they can be easily acquired from the airmans attic on most bases. These uniforms would include the uniforms mentioned above with the maternity AF blue shirt and the maternity BDU/ABU.

Thanks

[LtCol White]

Lt Col White,

An item that has been overlooked in CAPM 39-1 is maternity uniforms for females. My wife is expecting our third child currently, the second since being a CAP member and if all remains the same she will have to go inactive once she hits a certain point because she has no uniform to wear.

My simple proposal is to allow a white maternity aviator to be worn untucked with maternity grey or AF slacks or with the AF blue jumper. All insignia can be worn IAW AFI 36-2903. By using a white aviator shirt we do not need approval from the AF.

My long term goal is to have permission to wear the AF maternity uniforms since they can be easily acquired from the airmans attic on most bases. These uniforms would include the uniforms mentioned above with the maternity AF blue shirt and the maternity BDU/ABU.

Thanks

You are not the first to bring up this uniform as overlooked. We are planning a comprehensive review of the entire USAF closet to see what exists that could be of benefit to CAP members and will request approval for all items for CAP. This should help to eliminate having to go back piecemeal to USAF to ask for approval of items.

The only exception would be as USAF creates new items. We are planning to request some sort of blanket approval of new items as USAF introduces them with the appropriate CAP insignia replacing USAF insignia. This may be a stretch but we are going to explore its possibility with CAP USAF CC