Online Cadet Promotions Program now available in eServices

[brasda91]

its just generally easier using the administration module which is actually best for entering old information quickly

since we don't have direct internet access, I would be using the administration mode most of the time, since I would be updating the info over the next day or two?

[Tim Medeiros]

For entering information for past achievements yes I would recommend using the administration module, you will be able to manually enter the approval date or even just that date.  As well, when it comes up to cadet officer achievements, Ms (or is it Mrs?) Jackson at NHQ is fairly quick about entering that information and nice about it too.

One thing that would help enter information quickly is "share the wealth", have your personnel officer take care of some of the records, your deputy commander for cadets take care of some of the others and you could take on some as well.  Or replace the positions I listed with those you trust and you don't mind having access.  By default CDCs and CCs have access already, theres no sense though in one person doing all of the work, especially in larger squadrons or those whos personnel have alot on their plate.

[flyguy06]

So, does this mean that all a cadet has to do is look online and as soon as he sees he is pormoted, just wear his new rank to the next meeting? Is there no more promotion ceremonies or formations? I think that is a vital part of the military part of the cadet program. To have a Formation and promote the young lad in front of the entire unit.

[Major Carrales]

So, does this mean that all a cadet has to do is look online and as soon as he sees he is pormoted, just wear his new rank to the next meeting? Is there no more promotion ceremonies or formations? I think that is a vital part of the military part of the cadet program. To have a Formation and promote the young lad in front of the entire unit.

No, the ceremony is still an important part.  To me, this greatly assists in that it allows a cadet to see their own matierals online via e-services.  The reports functions also allow me to look at cadet progress at a glance.

[afgeo4]

Just like with seniors, you're only promoted when you're promoted by your commander. Seniors appear promoted on e-services before their new ID card is awarded to them at their promotion, but the true date of promotion is the day you get the card.

Now... we used to have this problem with seniors, but it didn't matter that much because of the long TIG requirements. This may become an issue with this cadet application.

The date of promotion... is it the date that's put into the system or the date the cadet gets officially promoted?

[Maj Ballard]

Just like with seniors, you're only promoted when you're promoted by your commander. Seniors appear promoted on e-services before their new ID card is awarded to them at their promotion, but the true date of promotion is the day you get the card.

Now... we used to have this problem with seniors, but it didn't matter that much because of the long TIG requirements. This may become an issue with this cadet application.

The date of promotion... is it the date that's put into the system or the date the cadet gets officially promoted?

I've never been at a squadron where the new ID card is presented to people at promotion ceremonies. If anything, it's sort of handed to the guy (or lady) in the middle of a meeting, weeks after the promotion was earned... and long after a ceremony has taken place (or not).

CAPR 35-5 is a little ambiguous, in that it says that authority to wear the new grade on the uniform needs both the signed promotion document AND a "properly annotated" ID card. However, it also says that the promotion will be effective on the date the promotion request is validated by National Headquarters.

We have a situation in our squadron where a gentleman has been waiting on his new ID card for about 4 months. NHQ says they sent it. We haven't received it. Lots of phone calls have ensued, to no avail - yet. His online record shows him promoted... I say let him wear the bars.

There are some occasions where a cadet earns a promotion, the file is signed, etc. but there may not be a promotion ceremony for several weeks (for a number of reasons). The cadet earned the promotion on the date the commander approved it, not the date he/she is "pinned."

In fact, CAPR 52-16 states, "As cadets complete each achievement and their squadron commander (or deputy commander for cadets) signs their CAPF 52 series form, they earn a new grade (except for achievements 8, 9, 11, 12, 13, 15 or 16, which confer no promotion in grade)." The cadet's date of promotion is the date the form is signed (or now entered online), not the date of any ceremony.

Ceremonies, for both seniors and cadets, are not "official promotions." They are recognitions of an achievement that may have "officially" occurred some time earlier.

[Tim Medeiros]

If I recall, it is the date entered into the system as the approved date.  Even for seniors, otherwise my promotion which was dated 25 Jan 2007 (according to my national record and the returned CAPF2) would not have been until mid February which was when my card arrived in the mail and my commander decided "oh, this arrived for you", heck, I would have been promoted to SM and Capt on the very same date and my membership was transferred to senior on 19 Jan 2007.

2-4. Cadet Promotions.
a. Earning Grade. As cadets complete each achievement and their squadron commander (or deputy commander for cadets) signs their CAPF 52 series form, they earn a new grade (except for achievements 8, 9, 11, 12, 13, 15 or 16, which confer no promotion in grade). By signing the cadet's CAPF 52, the commander is attesting to the cadet's ability to assume the next grade and accept increased responsibilities. Cadets do not officially earn milestone awards and the promotions that accompany them until the award is posted to e-Services at www.cap.gov.

So with this having the ability to take place of the CAPF 52 series, once approved in this application, it is official, which is why there is a disapproval function with specific reasoning.

[arajca]

When someone besides the commander enters the information, like a TCO, the commander has to approve it. The dissaproved with comments is to make commanders think about disapproving and to provide a record of it. It removes - if the unit uses this function - the removing a letter of reprimand once the cadet has met the requirements for it. (Had a couple like that in my unit.) If a cadet sees they've been disapproved for a promotion, they'll be able to see why.

As I understand it, using the online cadet promotion system is optional - for now.

Additionally, when online cadet testing starts, the approve/dissaprove function will remain with the commander (or designee) and will not be automatic once the tests are passed.

[flyguy06]

Arent new ID's sent to the member?

[jeders]

When a senior promotes, there new ID card with there new grade on it is sent to the commander for issuance.

[arajca]

Arent new ID's sent to the member?

Seniors, yes. Cadets, no.

Think about it, if cadets received a new membership card everytime the promoted, National would be constantly mailing them out. Using 20k cadets promoting twice a year (minimum requirement) that's 40k cards. Divide 40000 by 255 (mailing days, excluding weekends and holidays) you get 157 card sent out per day. Figuring $.20 each mailing cost equals $8000 in postage. Add $0.50 cost of card for $20,000. I think we can find better ways to spend $28,000 per year. That does not include the staff labor to process the cards.

[mikeylikey]

We should just move to a blank card that we stick our rank on by way of stickers.  You know when you promote, you just break out the original sticker package and make yourself a Major or if you were deceitful, you could be a Colonel in your first year.

[ADCAPer]

Until then, what would you have use do?  We go with what exists and don't long for speculative "better ways." 

Well, I'm not sure exactly what to do about this problem, but advising every one to "Please, don't fight this" as you did earlier is most definitely not the answer. If things aren't right then they need to be addressed. If you happen to think the program is great then that's fine, but because some people don't agree with you doesn't mean that they're fighting anything.

However, In the event that anyone wants to fight the CAP system, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Fighting to get things changed is an Air Force tradition, in fact, it's our oldest tradition.  I wonder what men like Billy, Henry, Carl and Ira would think of your statement? Good thing they didn't agree, otherwise we might all be wearing Army green and be some type of Infantry Auxiliary!

[davidsinn]

When a senior promotes, there new ID card with there new grade on it is sent to the commander for issuance.

Not true. Mine come straight to me. Both promotions I've had since I've been in have been that way.

[MIKE]

I think it's a commanders option, have had it both was in the two units I have been in.

[BlackKnight]

So, does this mean that all a cadet has to do is look online and as soon as he sees he is pormoted, just wear his new rank to the next meeting? Is there no more promotion ceremonies or formations? I think that is a vital part of the military part of the cadet program. To have a Formation and promote the young lad in front of the entire unit.

This has been the case with the milestone awards in recent years. Per CAPR 52-16 the cadet isn't entitled to wear the new grade until the award has been posted on e-services.  Once the award has been posted by NHQ they can start wearing the new grade.  For the formal promotion ceremonies we have the cadet temporarily put his old grade back on so it can be replaced with the new grade during the pinning ceremony. 

I have found that many cadets prefer to wait for the formal ceremony to wear their new grade, unless (a) they're cadet basics, or (b) they're going soon to an event outside the squadron such as an encampment.

[RiverAux]

If your unit regularly does promotion ceremonies, then it is best to wait until then.  Unfortunately, not all of them do it and if you're in one of them you just need to wait for the card. 

[SarDragon]

When a senior promotes, there new ID card with there new grade on it is sent to the commander for issuance.

More correctly, it is sent to the unit address, which mail may or may not be picked up by the unit commander. I, as the Admin weenie, had the mailbox key in my units.

[Major Carrales]

Well, I'm not sure exactly what to do about this problem, but advising every one to "Please, don't fight this" as you did earlier is most definitely not the answer.

Oh please spare me this.  All I am saying is that CAP Cadet Promotions now seem to be listed in e-services.  That is a long time in coming.

It is not mine nor national's fault that people have been entering CAP Cadet data into SIMS and personal made electronic materials and now seem to want to fight this.

Your second point makes several fallacies.  Billy Mitchell was court marshalled and became an "I TOLD YOU SO."  He championed an idea before its time, eventually times changed.   He was court marshalled for comments he made against admirals. 

Henry "Hap" Arnold built the Army Air Corps, again, the time for that was correct.  Spaatz et al were parts of new systems, on the edge...none of these people were for halting progress of clinging to OLD SCHOOL.

Now, by the numbers...

If things aren't right then they need to be addressed. If you happen to think the program is great then that's fine, but because some people don't agree with you doesn't mean that they're fighting anything.

Oh, well, what does it mean then?  I think the program is along time in coming.  I think some people had the chutzpah to create what they did to address a problem a long time in coming.  Instead of working to fix it, several people jumped to "combat" mode.  Would not the better thing to have done was contact CAP's tech people and offer suggestions and expertise, instead of coming on this forum and complain?

However, In the event that anyone wants to fight the CAP system, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

We are talking about Cadet Promotions here, not the whole CAP.  Fighting because CAP NHQ would like for cadet programs to be documented on line is a ridiculous waste of energy.  With the promotions electronically recorded, transfers are all the more easy.  Cadets can see when they are promoting next.  It can be see from any INTERNET ready computer in the WORLD.

Fighting to get things changed is an Air Force tradition, in fact, it's our oldest tradition.

No, our oldest tradition is service to the community, State and Nation. 

I wonder what men like Billy, Henry, Carl and Ira would think of your statement?

I don't think they would have an opinion of it since what I said was in reference to on-line cadet Promotions.  I don't think they would support the current system where cadet files are kept exclusively LOCAL or in fragmented systems.  I think they would like the idea of CAP personnel information of thsi sort being kept nationally.  Especially in a day when on line computer systems can allow these matieral to be index and searched in nano-seconds.

[Galahad]

It is not mine nor national's fault that people have been entering CAP Cadet data into SIMS and personal made electronic materials and now seem to want to fight this.

1.  SIMS has been listed on the Cadet Programs "Best Practices" page at cap.gov for about  4 years now.
http://www.cap.gov/visitors/members/cadet_programs/index.cfm?nodeID=6742&audienceID=4.  That sure looks like a pretty strong endorsement by CAP National.  I would appreciate it if you would refrain from posting comments that suggest those of us who have long been ahead of this I/T wave by using SIMS have somehow gone renegade and are not with the program.

2.  I have found what I believe may be an error in the on-line promotions for the Wright Brothers Award. When you enter the promotion data for the WB (as I did for one of my cadets last week), the data module asks only for the CPFT date, the Leadership test date, and the leadership test score.  After you enter that info the module automatically sends the WB applicant to the DCC or unit commander for approval.  If approval is given, the on-line promotion system apparently grants the WB award immediately, without verifying the required 2-months time in grade and attendance at a moral leadership session.  This surprised me because at the time I entered the data the cadet had not satisfied time-in-grade, yet the system was eager to make the award. One approval click would have done it, and the resultant dates would have shown as less that 2 months between the Feik and the WB award. SIMS would have denied the promotion given similar input. 

It appears that the logic for the WB on-line promotions module may have been designed using the old version of CAPR 52-16, which was superseded by the Oct 2006 update to CAPR 52-16.  SIMS was updated within a month to be compatible with the new regulation.