Why the Navy and Marines are not recognizing our cadets?

[ironputts]

I am the DCC for my squadron and have been with CAP for many years. When I started out I researched and found all the military branches gave an advance rank to our CAP cadets if they completed to the Mitchell award. I was recently asked by one of my cadets, who received his Mitchell award, what his opportunities were and I researched again. I found out the Air Force and Army would give him an E-3 rank but the Navy and Marines give nothing. I talked to many Marine recruiters and asked why and they said it was higher authority that changed it in the last couple of years. Can anyone give me your opinions and advise who we correspond with to change this poor decision. I was talking to one Marine recruiter and he was a former CAP cadet. He said it was a shame he didnt get the advance rank but he still wanted to be a Marine. We work hard with these kids, and all cadets that I have given the Mitchell to, were squared away and deserve the recogntion by our military!

[stillamarine]

Very interesting, I know I received it, but that was almost 13 years ago. Hope you find out something

[mikeylikey]

I am not sure if that is true.  I have cadets who received E-3 just 2 years ago when joining the Marines.  In fact the Coast Guard will give E-3 without a Cadet getting the Mitchell.  They will even give it to Adults who are also CAP members.

[Cobra1597]

At least you were lucky enough to run into a recruiter that told you they didn't still give them E-3. One of my friends was told by his recruiter that he would get either E-2 or E-3 because of the length of time he had been active as a CAP cadet, the recruiter even had our squadron fill out paperwork for it. He didn't find out until the end of boot camp that it wasn't true.

[ironputts]

 Re: Why the Navy and Marines are not recognizing our cadets?
« Reply #2 on: Today at 04:39:54 PM »   

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"I am not sure if that is true.  I have cadets who received E-3 just 2 years ago when joining the Marines.  In fact the Coast Guard will give E-3 without a Cadet getting the Mitchell.  They will even give it to Adults who are also CAP members."



Rest assured this information is correct and confirmed by several Marine recruiters. As you are, I was surprised but the fact that several of my cadets are going into the Marines as E-1 is a fact and I would like help to fix this wrong!

[ironputts]

"At least you were lucky enough to run into a recruiter that told you they didn't still give them E-3. One of my friends was told by his recruiter that he would get either E-2 or E-3 because of the length of time he had been active as a CAP cadet, the recruiter even had our squadron fill out paperwork for it. He didn't find out until the end of boot camp that it wasn't true."

I am sorry to hear this information. I tell my cadets to have their parents review the contract with the recruiters and I try help them also. I told them that is the only "contract" that is binding if there are issues later in their military careers. Many times words are said butif it isnt in the contract it wont happen. Tahnks for this information and hopefully others will learn from it. Of course many cadets dont ask any advice and I have received calls after they left boot camp saying they were lied to. I can only say to them deal with it and use the system to better their lives!

[Monty]

PREFACE: I'm not saying my pondering below is what I ever did, but merely food for thought.

Rumor has it that I served quite a while as an AF Active Duty recruiter.  With that rumor in mind, there may be a mix-up in terms of what "eligible" means and *must* means in terms of little Johnny/Sally walking in and demanding they want "X, Y, Z" because they have "1, 2, 3."

I could have had an Eagle Scout recipient, who also happened to have more than 44 semester units of college, the desire to serve six years, a Mitchell Award, a letter from his AFJROTC High School instructor, and had single-handedly saved the entire planet from space robots...........with one incredibly huge ego on his/her sleeve.  Said person is ELIGIBLE for advanced grade, but I'd not go to prison if I (or any person in the AF processing line) opted to leave off E-3.

It's hard to see but joining the service is like any job application process; you screw up the interview and the company doesn't have to give somebody anything; even the job itself.

Don't always be so sure that "Mr. Mitchell #89,546" recipient is AF material...copping an "attitude of entitlement" sits real poorly with the Air Force and could make people who draft AF contracts start "forgetting" stuff.

Likely, an "attitude of entitlement" sits even more poorly with the Marines if they've formally removed any advanced grade consideration. 

It's not inappropriate to ask why the USMC and whomever else may have removed the advanced grade consideration...but it's also not inappropriate for us to question if our Mitchell recipients are (still) the best fit for advanced grade consideration.

Fair's fair. 

[stillamarine]

I am not sure if that is true.  I have cadets who received E-3 just 2 years ago when joining the Marines.  In fact the Coast Guard will give E-3 without a Cadet getting the Mitchell.  They will even give it to Adults who are also CAP members.

Also I can guarantee you they did not receive E-3. No one receives E-3 off the bat in the Marine Corps, the most advanced you can enlist at is E-2. E-3 (Lance Corporal) is a leadership position and is not given away.

I went to boot with a guy that had 4 years Marine JROTC and a Bachelor Degree and on graduation day he was PFC just like me.

[mikeylikey]

I am not sure if that is true.  I have cadets who received E-3 just 2 years ago when joining the Marines.  In fact the Coast Guard will give E-3 without a Cadet getting the Mitchell.  They will even give it to Adults who are also CAP members.

Also I can guarantee you they did not receive E-3. No one receives E-3 off the bat in the Marine Corps, the most advanced you can enlist at is E-2. E-3 (Lance Corporal) is a leadership position and is not given away.

I went to boot with a guy that had 4 years Marine JROTC and a Bachelor Degree and on graduation day he was PFC just like me.

I just read the marine recruiting manuals off their website.......they do too give E-3 away.  Eagle scout, College credits etc.

[mikeylikey]

Don't always be so sure that "Mr. Mitchell #89,546" recipient is AF material...copping an "attitude of entitlement" sits real poorly with the Air Force and could make people who draft AF contracts start "forgetting" stuff.
Fair's fair. 

I understand what you are saying, but it the end you should be ethical about it.  Your comment adds to the negative view some people have of recruiters. 

I had a "career counselor" give me a speech while I was sitting in a mall eating a few years back, and he lied out of his but.  After his pitch, he asked if I would like to follow him down to the recruiting office, I went, and then busted out my ID card.  He about pooped a brick.  There I was an AD Captain, and he knew his job there was over.  (SIDE STORY, not related to this thread!)

Go to the Marine Corps recruiting Command website, call the S-1 and find out if advanced credit is given for CAP.  I know it was 2 years ago, maybe not anymore.  Heck it is given for Young Marines participants, and Naval Cadet Corps Cadets.

[Monty]

Don't always be so sure that "Mr. Mitchell #89,546" recipient is AF material...copping an "attitude of entitlement" sits real poorly with the Air Force and could make people who draft AF contracts start "forgetting" stuff.
Fair's fair. 

I understand what you are saying, but it the end you should be ethical about it.  Your comment adds to the negative view some people have of recruiters. 

I had a "career counselor" give me a speech while I was sitting in a mall eating a few years back, and he lied out of his but.  After his pitch, he asked if I would like to follow him down to the recruiting office, I went, and then busted out my ID card.  He about pooped a brick.  There I was an AD Captain, and he knew his job there was over.  (SIDE STORY, not related to this thread!)

Go to the Marine Corps recruiting Command website, call the S-1 and find out if advanced credit is given for CAP.  I know it was 2 years ago, maybe not anymore.  Heck it is given for Young Marines participants, and Naval Cadet Corps Cadets.

I haven't been a recruiter for 10 years so the "you should be ethical" (at least in tense) doesn't really fit.  Fortunately I'm not a knee jerker either, or I'd have to really have words with you about my ethics having been seemingly questioned.

Sorry friend - I ran a transparent operation without smoke and mirrors - my standards were high, regardless of others' opinions.  Folks knew up front what I expected as a conduit into the Air Force and they knew up front that I was not there to make their dreams happen - they were coming to me for a job to serve their nation, and a level of decorum for such a responsibility was the order of the day.  Folks also knew what entitled them to whatever: we'd sit down with the AETCI together and I'd *show* 'em.

Dare anyone to find a recruiter that'd do that.

No sense in giving potential cadet or airman an initial incorrect representation of the armed forces (re: subordinate commands the superior) and then having it reset by AETC after the bus ride to Lackland or Maxwell.

The office visits where I was directly observed by SrNCOs and O-5s congratulated me on this resolve as well, so I was certainly supported.  Right there in front of little Mr. or Miss, I let them know that their responsibility in doing what I needed to do in order to process them was directly correlated to how much effort I would put into their package; and that included whatever perks they wanted.

I made it rather clear that coming to ME for a job was like going to Microsoft for a job - what does a potential recruit have to offer ME as an employer.....never the other way around.  It's another reason why I didn't go to malls, High Schools, bus stations, or buy kids lunch in order to make them want to join.

Senses of entitlement might better be served by other services vs. mine.  When Billy came in dictating to me what he was and was not going to do, I was happy to guide him by the shoulder to a different colored suit wearer down the hall.  Even if he flashed a big fat Spaatz.

I *never* had an AF member call me up and say, "what were you thinking in letting this guy into the Air Force."  And I never had a cadet or airman ever call me back and say, "I got a wrong deal with you."

Both types were instrumental when I applied - and earned - a commissioning program opportunity of my own.

Ethics and I were - and are - hand in hand.  I could never look my own son in the eye and expect him to be honest and ethical if I couldn't be.



PS - In the 80+ members I put into stripes or bars, no more than FIVE were even Mitchell or better.  CAP is not as big a contributor to the USAF as we might suspect, though I can only speak for my own experiences.

[AlphaSigOU]

Well said, Monty!

[Stonewall]

FYI, in 1991 I got E-2 upon enlisting into the Army with the Mitchell.  No biggie, cuz either way I would have gotten it for "recruiting" a buddy (who was going in anyway).

I could never be a recruiter.  They'd fire me in a week for sending people away.  And like Monty, I'd never go fishing for recruits.  Man, I'll just stop here.  Had to delete a few things that would have really ticked people off.....

It's a shame we have to recruit.  People should be pounding down the door to serve their country.  But that's just my opinion.

[arajca]

It's a shame we have to recruit.  People should be pounding down the door to serve their country.  But that's just my opinion.

Agreed. We shouldn't have recruiters, we should have selection boards.

[jimmydeanno]

Agreed. We shouldn't have recruiters, we should have selection boards.

Until we have people banging down our door to join, I'll keep my recruiting and retention officer...he's doing a great job making us >not< the best kept secret in the world.

[Stonewall]

Agreed. We shouldn't have recruiters, we should have selection boards.

Until we have people banging down our door to join, I'll keep my recruiting and retention officer...he's doing a great job making us >not< the best kept secret in the world.

What you talkin' about Willis?



Are you talking CAP?  Cuz we're talking Military recruiters...

[jimmydeanno]

Pay no attention to me, I think I had a slight lapse in conciousness...

[Cecil DP]

It's a shame we have to recruit.  People should be pounding down the door to serve their country.  But that's just my opinion.

Agreed. We shouldn't have recruiters, we should have selection boards.

That's exactly what recruiters are, the first gate in the process of keeping up a quality force.

[flyguy06]

I agree with Monty,

Just because you are "eligible" for a rank doesnt mean you "have" to get.

Plus, i dont see what all the fuss is about. Whats the difference in pay between an E-1 and an E-3? About $70 (just a guess).

Why are we spending time talking about trying to get someone on the sevice as an E-3? We should be trying to encourage our cadets to go to college and become officers if they have military aspirations.

I am not an elitest. I was enlisted for 11 years as an 11B soldier, so btdt.

[mikeylikey]

I agree with Monty,

Just because you are "eligible" for a rank doesnt mean you "have" to get.

Plus, i dont see what all the fuss is about. Whats the difference in pay between an E-1 and an E-3? About $70 (just a guess).

I am not an elitest. I was enlisted for 11 years as an 11B soldier, so btdt.

Then you would know rank is everything.  If you are an E-1/2, I will come to you before I go to the E-3 to rake the gravel parking lot outside the battalion HQ.  Coming in as an E-3 means you have a slight jump on your peers.  And you are making around $330.00 more than an E-1 per month and at the end of the year that adds up to almost $4,000.00

I am sure everyone can use $4,000 more a year right?