Color Guard Rifles

[ladyreferee]

Airsoft anything these days has nice big orange tips.  When the tips are taken off, you get in trouble with not only the manufacturer for altering the gun, but also your local policeman who lives next door and sees you playing in the backyard with it.  But they sure are fun!  We have a whole neighborhood arsenal at our house....

[MIKE]

They can really sting when you get shot in the [FPoC] on full-auto. 

[addo1]

Theyt can really sting when you get shot in the [FPoC] on full-auto. 

Oh, yeah!! Had a few too many experiences....

[MIKE]

Paint balls hurt more though... and leave welts.

[addo1]

Paint balls hurt more though... and leave welts.

Never actually played paintball... I can only imagine!!!

[L Cid]

I agree with smgilbert101.  They have many airsoft editions which look really neat, but I think they are not very sturdy and they might cause problems.  I think I might know of another website with M14 Drill rifles, but I will have to check!

I'm looking forward to your checking on that site.  Any chance you found it by now?
Thanks!

Tags - MIKE

[addo1]

  Strange, I can't find it anywhere     But, I am still looking.

[floridacyclist]

Shame I've never seen an M-16 drill rifle. I learned the manual of arms with it and somehow I doubt you'd get much argument from the cadets either LOL

[addo1]

I agree with smgilbert101.  They have many airsoft editions which look really neat, but I think they are not very sturdy and they might cause problems.  I think I might know of another website with M14 Drill rifles, but I will have to check!

I'm looking forward to your checking on that site.  Any chance you found it by now?
Thanks!

Tags - MIKE

That site went out of buisness just a couple of days ago.    Sorry!

[NIN]

My AEO is an AF JROTC instructor, too, and he donated two brand new Drill America rifles to the squadron for the color guard:

http://www.glendale.com/detail.aspx?ID=415

They're sweet, but we use our "old" drill rifles for practice training and then transition to the heaver M-1-style rifles for the folks who are actually participating on the color guard. 

(You learn the moves on the lighter rifles, then move to the 8lb monsters!)

[Major Lord]

It looks a little "plasticky" does it look like a real firearm or more like those "Davy Crockett" cap guns they represent as springfields?

Major Lord

[baronet68]

1-4. c. Weapons. There will be no firearms, air guns, paint guns or any device that could be used as a weapon at any cadet activity. The only exceptions to this policy are:
(1) Deactivated Firearms. Cadets may use facsimile or deactivated firearms only as part of an honor guard or color guard. A deactivated firearm is one that will prevent the insertion of ammunition or the firing of a weapon. A facsimile is a copy that is not capable of firing ammunition. ...

So, would this mean that you could use firearms to do grass drills during color guard practice?

[DHollywood]

Airsoft anything these days has nice big orange tips.  When the tips are taken off, you get in trouble with not only the manufacturer for altering the gun, but also your local policeman who lives next door and sees you playing in the backyard with it.  But they sure are fun!  We have a whole neighborhood arsenal at our house....

Actually the ONLY law requireing the orange tip applies to the sale of the airsoft rifle.

There is no law that prohibits the removal

of the orange tip.  Perhaps a local regulation might purport to do so, but it would not pass constitutional muster.

I participate in several very large scale national military simulation events each year (upwards of 600 people) and none of us have orange tips.   

A realistic looking M14 airsoft rifle with wood furniture would cost no less than about $500, probably even more.  Drill replicas are much less expensive.  And when that cadet drops that $500 airsoft rifle its done. 

IMHAO

[Major Lord]

Lt. Thorpe is a little off base when it comes to Kalifornia: Here is the law:

12553.  (a) (1) Any person who changes, alters, removes, or
obliterates any coloration or markings that are required by any
applicable state or federal law or regulation, for any imitation
firearm, or device described in subdivision (c) of Section 12555, in
any way that makes the imitation firearm or device look more like a
firearm is guilty of a misdemeanor.

Here is why we can do it as CAP but not as private citizens:

12555.  (a) Any person who, for commercial purposes, purchases,
sells, manufactures, ships, transports, distributes, or receives, by
mail order or in any other manner, an imitation firearm except as
authorized by this section shall be liable for a civil fine in an
action brought by the city attorney or the district attorney of not
more than ten thousand dollars ($10,000) for each violation.
   (b) The manufacture, purchase, sale, shipping, transport,
distribution, or receipt, by mail or in any other manner, of
imitation firearms is authorized if the device is manufactured,
purchased, sold, shipped, transported, distributed, or received for
any of the following purposes:
   (1) Solely for export in interstate or foreign commerce.
   (2) Solely for lawful use in theatrical productions, including
motion picture, television, and stage productions.
   (3) For use in a certified or regulated sporting event or
competition.
   (4) For use in military or civil defense activities, or ceremonial
activities.

Most States have a similar statute and there may be some recent Federal Laws on this as well.

Major Lord

[NIN]

It looks a little "plasticky" does it look like a real firearm or more like those "Davy Crockett" cap guns they represent as springfields?

Nah, they look nice.  They're glass-filled fiberglass stocks with metal accouterments.  Solid.  Not plastic-looking at all.  And heavy as all hell.

They make an upper receiver assembly for them that allows you to rack the action for inspection arms.

[Major Lord]

Excellent! I was thinking about building up a couple of AR-15's on dummy receivers, but I may give these a look-see first. The website said that you can order a returnable unit for inspection. They are a heck of a lot less expensive than building M-16 dummy guns. (although the dummy guns would look just like the real thing)

Major Lord

[NIN]

Excellent! I was thinking about building up a couple of AR-15's on dummy receivers, but I may give these a look-see first. The website said that you can order a returnable unit for inspection. They are a heck of a lot less expensive than building M-16 dummy guns. (although the dummy guns would look just like the real thing)

Yeah, I thought about writing to Colt and seeing if we could get a couple "reject" lower receivers (ie. the machining was goofed so they couldn't put any guts into it, like trigger, safety, sear, hammer, etc) and then building up the uppers with a couple shot-out barrels.   Too expensive.

My cadets know the rule: you drop one of these babies, you get down with it.

(Top tip: buy a couple rifle cases for them. They're nice enough you want to protect the furniture)

[Flying Pig]

My cadets know the rule: you drop one of these babies, you get down with it.


Believe it or not, when I was in the Marines (Infantry), I got two weeks restriction to the barracks and suspension of promotion to Sgt for 6 months for making a Marine do 20 push ups for dropping his rifle.  And Im not leaving anything out of the story!  The C.O. said I should have made the Marine write an essay on the issues with dropping a rifle.

That was just after that video came out in the late 90's of the Marines getting their Gold Wings punched into their chest.

Im personally all for following your weapon though......Whats worse is that guy who did the pushups didnt care, it was  a bystander from a totally different unit who made the complaint.  The guy who did the push ups actually spoke on my behalf.  Anyway....enough on that tanget.

To quote Gen Chesty Puller....Your not a Marine until youve been NJP'd   (Non Judicial Punishment)

[Major Lord]

You can buy "80%"receivers and just not drill out all the holes you would need to to make it a fully operational weapon. My plan is to not drill any holes except the cross pins and and the buffer tube and glue the controls (trigger, safety/selector) with JB weld. There were complete GI M-16 parts sets avaiable for as low as 250.00 in good shape as of last year.

Major Lord

[DHollywood]

Lt. Thorpe is a little off base when it comes to Kalifornia: Here is the law:

12553.  (a) (1) Any person who changes, alters, removes, or
obliterates any coloration or markings that are required by any
applicable state or federal law or regulation, for any imitation
firearm, or device described in subdivision (c) of Section 12555, in
any way that makes the imitation firearm or device look more like a
firearm is guilty of a misdemeanor.

Here is why we can do it as CAP but not as private citizens:

12555.  (a) Any person who, for commercial purposes, purchases,
sells, manufactures, ships, transports, distributes, or receives, by
mail order or in any other manner, an imitation firearm except as
authorized by this section shall be liable for a civil fine in an
action brought by the city attorney or the district attorney of not
more than ten thousand dollars ($10,000) for each violation.
   (b) The manufacture, purchase, sale, shipping, transport,
distribution, or receipt, by mail or in any other manner, of
imitation firearms is authorized if the device is manufactured,
purchased, sold, shipped, transported, distributed, or received for
any of the following purposes:
   (1) Solely for export in interstate or foreign commerce.
   (2) Solely for lawful use in theatrical productions, including
motion picture, television, and stage productions.
   (3) For use in a certified or regulated sporting event or
competition.
   (4) For use in military or civil defense activities, or ceremonial
activities.

Most States have a similar statute and there may be some recent Federal Laws on this as well.

Major Lord

Would you mind providing the entire citation for whichever code that is?

Commifornia does tend to push the constitutional limits of federally occupied regulatory areas for sure.

As for the airsoft events where we all remove those silly orange tips:

2) Solely for lawful use in theatrical productions, including
motion picture, television, and stage productions.
3) For use in a certified or regulated sporting event or
competition.

Airsoft milsim events are both in fact.

A closer analysis of the code you cite reveals that the code does not itself create a requirement for the orange tip, it merely creates a state offense for a federally required orange tip.

A good lawyer can fit nearly any scenario into any of these exemptions.

A bad lawyer wrote that code.