Promoting

[Cadetter]

Hello,

What are effective ways that you/your squadron use/uses to motivate Cadets to promote?

Thanks,
Cadetter

[MIKE]

Assign cadets to phase and grade appropriate roles, with like expectations on performance.

[Cadetter]

Thanks, but already doing that (well... with the exception of C/CC), but what when there's no sergeants but lots of airmen? Trying to figure how to motivate the airmen to promote.

[Huey Driver]

Check this document out, made by one of my CAC Reps.

[Cadetter]

Check this document out, made by one of my CAC Reps.

Thank you, sir. We have similar to Cadet of the Quarter, and a form of CGS should help basics promote. Where in 52-15 are the referenced SMART goals? (I did look, briefly.) One problem we have is that some cadet staff positions rotate every cadet change of command, and the others are only available upon the holder's promotion (i.e. first shirt gets Mitchell).

[Huey Driver]

Check this document out, made by one of my CAC Reps.

Where in 52-15 are the referenced SMART goals? (I did look, briefly.)

CAPP 52-15, Section 2.3, on page 12.

[wacapgh]

Thanks, but already doing that (well... with the exception of C/CC), but what when there's no sergeants but lots of airmen? Trying to figure how to motivate the airmen to promote.

It will help if we know a bit more about the cadets in your squadron -
Do you have any Cadet Officers? If yes, how many and what are their grades?

As MIKE said, matching up grade = positions/responsibilities is a good motivator.

If you have a C/SrA acting as Flight Sergeant, then you have removed a big part of the incentive to get that Wright Brothers milestone. The airman has the "privileges" of being a sergeant without having to work for the promotion.

Check out CAPP 52-15

http://capmembers.com/media/cms/P052_015_21F7ACED34F45.pdf

Appendix 2 has some great examples of how to work setting up your chain of command.

[Cadetter]

Element leaders: Airmen
Both the first shirt and flight sergeant are C/SNCOs, but the first sergeant is getting the Mitchell soon.
FC, CC, and DC are phase III.

For active C/Officers other than FC, CC, and DC:
One phase IV cadet, a previous C/CC

Edited to add: There's an additional SNCO who will be getting their Mitchell soon

[Cadetter]

Forgot to add - we may soon have a C/SrA flight sergeant, once the Mitchells are awarded. This SrA is working on the Wright Brothers, so hopefully we won't.

The majority of our airmen haven't promoted in a while, which is why I'm asking for ways to motivate them.

[Cadetter]

Another reason our staff is anxious for the airmen to promote - staff's promotions depend on it.

[Eclipse]

The majority of our airmen haven't promoted in a while, which is why I'm asking for ways to motivate them.

You might also remind them that if they enjoy CAP, they need to promote, because if they don't, they may find themselves
with more free time.

Summer vacation is an especially dangerous time for cadets who haven't promoted in the previous months.
A lot of squadrons all but shut down for the summer (huge mistake), and a lot of families go away for extended periods
of time, which can further demotivate a lagging cadet.  Before you know it, a year has passed on those mosquito wings and they either quit or
have the "conversation" with the CC and are terminated.

One thing that is nearly universal, cadet do the "Spaatz Math" the day they get their first promotion, and
anything that even hints at changing that equation can be enough to get them thinking about quitting.

[Cadetter]

You might also remind them that if they enjoy CAP, they need to promote, because if they don't, they may find themselves
with more free time.

A lot of squadrons all but shut down for the summer (huge mistake), and a lot of families go away for extended periods
of time, which can further demotivate a lagging cadet.  Before you know it, a year has passed on those mosquito wings and they either quit or
have the "conversation" with the CC and are terminated.

Well, our squadron commander has been having us urge those on the 120 days' list. I frankly do not think 2b'ing them for not promoting when they otherwise are active is a good idea. Our squadron ain't shutting down, no worries there.

One thing that is nearly universal, cadet do the "Spaatz Math" the day they get their first promotion, and
anything that even hints at changing that equation can be enough to get them thinking about quitting.

Haha, well I did the Spaatz Math too... having a promotion or two held changed the equation =P

Some people have told me to use what motivation techniques work on me, which doesn't work well.

[Eclipse]

I frankly do not think 2b'ing them for not promoting when they otherwise are active is a good idea.

"Otherwise Active" is the problem.  Regular promotion prepares them to accept the challenges and responsibilities of grade-appropriate
roles in the unit.  Allow the non-progression to linger too long and you wind up with a cadre or older cadets who
may be overwhelming the leadership simply by age or experience, while not be qualified to do so.

As they get older they should also be locking to participate in outside activities, and cadets who don't progress will
find themselves at a disadvantage there as well.

It's all part of the same games, and CAP is not a rec center, everyone there, end-to-end, is there for a purpose.

[Cadetter]

Well, I have a hard time telling cadets they must promote or be 2b'd when they're busy with school. I agree that cadets should promote regularly. Many of our cadets came in last year, got their first stripe within a month, and haven't promoted since. Also, our squadron only recently began having leadership expectations for promotions, so despite the grade of XYZ, a cadet isn't necessarily prepared for a grade-appropriate role.

There are, like with most squadrons, the categories of cadets who come. The main ones I pick out are:

-Cadets who are dedicated to CAP, i.e. attend meetings, participate in activities when possible, actively work on promoting, etc. Most of these cadets are on staff.

-Cadets who would be the same as above if other extracurricular activities didn't get in the way

-Cadets who come for the friends.

-Cadets who joined for the fun of promoting. (Only two of these)

-Cadets who joined because Mom said so.

-Others, assorted - not meant to make the cadets sound like veggies =P

[Eclipse]

School always comes first, that's a given, but 1-2 promotions a year, at a minimum, is not
an unreasonable expectation for the average cadet.  Much of this is won or lost in the expectations.
I've routinely dealt with cadets and parents who say "CAP is too hard."  or "You expect too much.",
but these same cadets are involved in sports or other organizations which have little tolerance for
missed practices, or other hard-fast baseline expectations.

If promotion is viewed as "optional", that's how it will be treated.  If it is viewed as an expectation of
membership, then there will not be any surprise when the "conversations" happen.

The other problem is that this attitude is not universal, and is especially a problem at large activities
which are desperate for staff.  As an encampment commander I would never even consider a cadet
for staff positions, especially the Exe jobs, if they aren't progressing at a reasonable rate, but
many activity POCs dont' even ask the question, let alone care, thus propagating the problem.

With that said, that assumes there are regular testing opportunities, the unit is doing PT as a matter
of the regular schedule, etc., etc.

If you have a non-progressing cadet spending meeting time on drilling, or an AE lecture, or even ES training, who isn't taking
their online tests, have them sit down in front of a PC and take their next test instead - they probably
know more then they think.  Same goes for PT - you can't win if you don't play.

The further out from the last promotion a cadet is, the more emphasis should be placed on testing and
the less on everything else.

Yes, things get harder as you move up, but for the most part, the average cadet who is keeping up with
an averagely active squadron should not have much issue passing the tests, and if they are, that's a command
failure.

[Cadetter]

CAP is too hard on some parents, who are otherwise busy and even have a difficult time taking their cadet to weekly meetings.

Promoting isn't optional. I don't like saying up or out, though. Some cadets decide they are to immature for promotion, and hence do not promote.

Most of our cadets have regular access to computers. The three who don't are the most active promoters. Our unit offers drill tests every week except PT.

Well, my wing cadet summer encampment commander hasn't promoted in a year or two. Then again, he's staffed 10 encampments, gone on IACE more than once (I think), and is the only person qualified.

As for not passing tests - Our cadets have particular trouble passing Curry, and some with the Wright Brothers. Another has trouble with Aerospace module 5.

(Edited to remove sarcasm.)

[SamFranklin]

I think the cadet (?) who started this thread asked the right question. How do you motivate cadets to work hard for promotion?

Behavioral scientists would tell you that positive reenforcement is the most effective method, especially in a youth activity that offers young people so many awesome opportunities. For this reason I oppose
commanders having the prerogative to terminate cadets' memberships. That serves no one.

Bob said CAP is not a Rec Center, CAP is more purposeful than that. I suppose I agree with the sentiment, but not the presumed (?) conclusion that an "up or out" policy is warranted. With kids, who are by nature uncertain about their interests, some are apt to wax and wane in their CAP participation. To the stagnant cadet, I say, get with it bud, you're missing out, we'll help you succeed. The stagnant cadet won't hold a cool job, but I certainly won't push him out of CAP; I want to bring him further into CAP. 

It blows my mind to hear that so many units 2b cadets for absenteeism or failure to progress. That's something like malpractice for a youth serving organization.

[Cadetter]

I think the cadet (?) who started this thread asked the right question. How do you motivate cadets to work hard for promotion?

Behavioral scientists would tell you that positive reenforcement is the most effective method, especially in a youth activity that offers young people so many awesome opportunities. For this reason I oppose
commanders having the prerogative to terminate cadets' memberships. That serves no one.

Well, it is good for commanders to have the prerogative, but it should be rarely used. JMNSHO

Bob said CAP is not a Rec Center, CAP is more purposeful than that. I suppose I agree with the sentiment, but not the presumed (?) conclusion that an "up or out" policy is warranted. With kids, who are by nature uncertain about their interests, some are apt to wax and wane in their CAP participation. To the stagnant cadet, I say, get with it bud, you're missing out, we'll help you succeed. The stagnant cadet won't hold a cool job, but I certainly won't push him out of CAP; I want to bring him further into CAP. 

It blows my mind to hear that so many units 2b cadets for absenteeism or failure to progress. That's something like malpractice for a youth serving organization.

Yes, presumed. I pretty much say that to stagnant cadets too. This year's cadets are hard to motivate for some reason, though.

I work hard for promotion because I enjoy challenges. The tests aren't terribly challenging for me yet, but the "leadership lab" is.

I'm not asking for ways to threaten (not the best word here, granted) cadets to promote. Whether I like it or not, that base is covered. I'm looking for ways to teach self motivation. (Note: some of our cadets might consider getting their Mitchell for advanced AF grade. These cadets have 7 years or so left in the program, so they're not in a hurry.)

[Eclipse]

It blows my mind to hear that so many units 2b cadets for absenteeism or failure to progress. That's something like malpractice for a youth serving organization.

It's a core component of the program, not to mention part of the Cadet Oath.

Leeway for school and life is always acceptable, as is flexibility of circumstance, but if you're clocking
into your second or third year with no progression, and yet you expect to have a voice or leadership
role in the unit, it's time for the "conversation".

That sets the exact opposite message CAP is expecting Unit CC's to promote (pun intended).

[Eclipse]

These cadets have 7 years or so left in the program, so they're not in a hurry.)

Those 7 years FLY by, (just last week I joined CAP 15 years ago) but really, most have about 3-4, maybe 5 before their Spaatz clock runs out and they
use that to just disengage.

The same thing happens to Boy Scouts with Eagle.  As soon as Eagle is not attainable, many use that as the excuse.

We need to be pushing them, not allowing them the benefit of excuses.   They will thank you later.

[SamFranklin]

I'm looking for ways to teach self motivation.

Perhaps that's the problem right there. Why would an unmotivated cadet want to learn self-motivation?

First they need to develop a basic enthusiasm for the program. Acquiring "self-motivation," better known through the concept of intrinsic reward, is a high level developmental milestone, likely beyond the reach of younger adolescents. A more effective strategy for the age group is to use extrinsic rewards in positive reenforcement. Sorry, I realize that's jargon, but aim at social and esteem needs. "hey, the rocketry program is really cool because xyzabc, and graduates qualify for the rocketry badge, which is modeled on the old AF missile badge." That extrinsic reward could motivate and buy you time to reach bigger developmental goals later on. Do that a few times until higher order milestones like self motivation are developmentally within reach. Hope that helps.

[SamFranklin]

It's a core component of the program, not to mention part of the Cadet Oath.

... The conversation.

Indeed, advancing ed and training rapidly is a core part of the program. No dispute. But the consequence of early termination does not necessarily follow.

If by "the conversation" you mean a teachable moment through positive reenforcement, yes, that's very much in order. But if you mean it's ultimatum time, I'd suggest that the literature on motivational theory runs the other way.

[Cadetter]

I'm looking for ways to teach self motivation.

Perhaps that's the problem right there. Why would an unmotivated cadet want to learn self-motivation?

Well, I did.

First they need to develop a basic enthusiasm for the program. Acquiring "self-motivation," better known through the concept of intrinsic reward, is a high level developmental milestone, likely beyond the reach of younger adolescents. A more effective strategy for the age group is to use extrinsic rewards in positive reenforcement. Sorry, I realize that's jargon, but aim at social and esteem needs. "hey, the rocketry program is really cool because xyzabc, and graduates qualify for the rocketry badge, which is modeled on the old AF missile badge." That extrinsic reward could motivate and buy you time to reach bigger developmental goals later on. Do that a few times until higher order milestones like self motivation are developmentally within reach. Hope that helps.

Maslow's hierarchy?

We are trying to find tangible benefits. What, for instance, is a extrinsic benefit of getting the Wright Brothers? Curry/Arnold/Feik/etc?

[Eclipse]

If by "the conversation" you mean a teachable moment through positive reenforcement, yes, that's very much in order. But if you mean it's ultimatum time, I'd suggest that the literature on motivational theory runs the other way.

It's both, and the aren't mutually exclusive.

Having the "conversation" with a cadet who is looking at year two or three of non-progression is hardly "early".

[Cadetter]

Well, we had a cadet this year who hadn't promoted for two or three years, who wanted to be first sergeant. They didn't attend meetings more than once every half year. They are a member of our squadron's ghost squadron atm.

I agree those years fly by. However, it is their CAP life. I intend to receive my Spaatz. Only five cadets in my squadron besides myself intend to do so.

[Eclipse]

We are trying to find tangible benefits. What, for instance, is a extrinsic benefit of getting the Wright Brothers? Curry/Arnold/Feik/etc?

E-3 is the military is in your future, many outside activities, CAC, NCC, various other NCSAs, etc., all open up to,
or are more readily available to cadets who are progressing at an acceptable rate, if for no other reason then
many of these activities have pretty high competition, especially if you want to be on staff.

[SamFranklin]

If by "the conversation" you mean a teachable moment through positive reenforcement, yes, that's very much in order. But if you mean it's ultimatum time, I'd suggest that the literature on motivational theory runs the other way.

It's both, and the aren't mutually exclusive.

Having the "conversation" with a cadet who is looking at year two or three of non-progression is hardly "early".

Help me understand what you're saying. How can an ultimatum be presented consistent with positive reenforcement?

Back to lurker status. Sorry, I just can't up with the volume here.

[Cadetter]

We are trying to find tangible benefits. What, for instance, is a extrinsic benefit of getting the Wright Brothers? Curry/Arnold/Feik/etc?

E-3 is the military is in your future, many outside activities, CAC, NCC, various other NCSAs, etc., all open up to,
or are more readily available to cadets who are progressing at an acceptable rate, if for no other reason then
many of these activities have pretty high competition, especially if you want to be on staff.

Most cadets in my squadron don't intend to join the military. Three of the ones who do will get their Spaatz.

CAC - when CAC reps are A1Cs?

Most our cadets don't really care about outside of state activities. We don't have national ones here that I know of.

[Eclipse]

CAC - when CAC reps are A1Cs?

Most our cadets don't really care about outside of state activities. We don't have national ones here that I know of.

Here's two of your problems right there, things easy to fix.

The Squadron is the Heart of CAP, but it should not be considered the end-all or be-all.

If your unit leadership is not stressing participating outside the unit, for everyone, cadet and senior,
that's a significant failure, and is to the detriment of the member(s) and the organization.

[Eclipse]

=
Help me understand what you're saying. How can an ultimatum be presented consistent with positive reenforcement?

Part of being a leader and mentor, to anyone, is accepting that these difficult conversations are necessary for
everyone's good, including the organization.

In many cases, the perception that life is an open-ended book with no deadlines or expectations are the reason
people fail.  A reminder of that can get people back on track.

Cadets non-progressing without legitimate reasons are not good for anyone, especially the cadet in question.

[Cadetter]

CAC - when CAC reps are A1Cs?

Most our cadets don't really care about outside of state activities. We don't have national ones here that I know of.

Here's two of your problems right there, things easy to fix.

The Squadron is the Heart of CAP, but it should not be considered the end-all or be-all.

If your unit leadership is not stressing participating outside the unit, for everyone, cadet and senior,
that's a significant failure, and is to the detriment of the member(s) and the organization.

Our cadets participate outside the UNIT, not outside the STATE. Most haven't gone to a single outside the state activity. Sometimes they cost more than the cadets can afford.

[a2capt]

..for some units, the most obvious participation is in the next wing.

[Alaric]

CAC - when CAC reps are A1Cs?

Most our cadets don't really care about outside of state activities. We don't have national ones here that I know of.

Here's two of your problems right there, things easy to fix.

The Squadron is the Heart of CAP, but it should not be considered the end-all or be-all.

If your unit leadership is not stressing participating outside the unit, for everyone, cadet and senior,
that's a significant failure, and is to the detriment of the member(s) and the organization.

Our cadets participate outside the UNIT, not outside the STATE. Most haven't gone to a single outside the state activity. Sometimes they cost more than the cadets can afford.

I can see not going out of state depending on where you are, when I lived in Texas few people went out of state due to the distance and cost

[Cadetter]

Well, our state isn't nearly as large as Texas, but it's most our cadets aren't rich. A lot of our cadets aren't going to summer encampment due to finances, and that's in-state.

[Cadetter]

..for some units, the most obvious participation is in the next wing.

Yes, if you're near the state line.

[Cadetter]

And I just got "the talk" on participating in activities.

At least we've got some cadets trying to promote, we just need them succeeding. The part that they pass the easiest is drill, because the first half of our meeting is inspection and drill ('cept for PT nights). I am "googling'' and finding what I can to motivate cadets - most effective way in our squadron seems to be "we need you to promote, because we need _________ to help us succeed as a squadron."                                                                                        (airmen, sergeants, etc)

[Eclipse]

...because the first half of our meeting is inspection and drill ('cept for PT nights)

If you're devoting half of most meetings on drill and inspection, you have an easy place to start.

Most nights drill should be left to formations, and if an inspection takes more then 10 minutes, total, you're doing it wrong.
A weekly inspection, presuming it is necessary, should be an "up-down / left-right" affair, not a root canal.

From 50k feet it sounds like your emphasis is in the wrong place, or if not, then at a minimum you should de-emphasize
what your cadets are already doing well with, and place the attention where they need assistance.

[Cadetter]

Inspection takes 3 minutes per 15 cadets.

The cadets don't attend regularly if we don't have drill. It seems to be their favorite part of CP. And they are improving, but are not "doing well." Once we start doing better at drill, we will have 15 minutes or so on a meeting night.

[Eclipse]

CAP is not a drill team, it's a small part of a larger whole.

Regardless of the excuses, 1/2 a meeting more then once a month on drill is too much, certainly it should not
be most of them.

It sounds like you are zeroing in on your problems, whether you expected to do it this way or not.

The AE, Leadership, CI, not to mention ES, should be engaging enough for them to want to be there for
those as well.

Drill is actually a small part of CAP, but a lot of unit treat it like it's CAP's primary purpose.
It's also used any and every time a leader has not prepared a proper lesson plan.

Time to look at your 13-week schedule and make some hard choices about where you are spending your time.

[lordmonar]

Eclipse....I think you do not have enough SA on the actual situation to be determine what is or is not too much time on one area of Cadetter's squadron.

Cadetter.....good job trying to get some help....I now suggest that you go to your squadron leadership with these issues....and see what sort of plan you can figure out.

If this thread keeps going the way it currently is.....it is going to change into one of those name calling matches where Eclipse and I start arguing the meaning of "is" again.

[Cadetter]

Thanks... and the 1/2 drill time is for THIS MONTH ONLY.

I have gone to my squadron leadership, and we are working on it. I am creating a list of ways to motivate cadets to promote, and for some reason I'm not thinking well, although I do have some. Which is why I started this thread.

[Eclipse]

Eclipse....I think you do not have enough SA on the actual situation to be determine what is or is not too much time on one area of Cadetter's squadron.

I wouldn't argue that, but we can only discuss what is provided.

One thing that is true, what you're doing now, apparently, isn't working, so justifying what you're doing now
isn't going to get things to change.

The only thing that gets things to change, is change.   And you might not make the right choices the first try,
but the sooner you start, the better for everyone.

[PA Guy]

Well, our state isn't nearly as large as Texas, but it's most our cadets aren't rich. A lot of our cadets aren't going to summer encampment due to finances, and that's in-state.

What are you and your unit doing to find financial help for those cadets? Have you tried unit fund raisers.? Hit up the local vet groups? Check with the encampment  commander if scholarships are available?  Anything to raise a few bucks. Use your imagination.

[Cadetter]

1-3 fundraisers per month.

[Eclipse]

Define "fundraiser".

[Cadetter]

[lmgtfy]define fundraiser[/lmgtfy]

And our squadron offers small scholarships for summer encampment and NCSAs.

[Eclipse]

I know what a fundraiser is, what does it mean when you say you do them three times a month?

[MajorM]

Where are the Cadet Programs seniors in this?  I have found the most significant motivation for s"slow-roll" cadets is when a senior engages them, expresses an interest and tells then to test.  Almost every time within a week they've tested.  This isn't meant to usurp the role of cadet leadership but to augment it.  There's a power that an invested, caring adult has that a cadet leader can't always replicate.

[Cadetter]

Our squadron commander has been personally urging cadets on the 120 days' list, and our deputy commander has been encouraging cadets to promote as well.

[skywise123]

CAP is too hard on some parents, who are otherwise busy and even have a difficult time taking their cadet to weekly meetings.

Promoting isn't optional. I don't like saying up or out, though. Some cadets decide they are to immature for promotion, and hence do not promote.

Most of our cadets have regular access to computers. The three who don't are the most active promoters. Our unit offers drill tests every week except PT.

Well, my wing cadet summer encampment commander hasn't promoted in a year or two. Then again, he's staffed 10 encampments, gone on IACE more than once (I think), and is the only person qualified.

As for not passing tests - Our cadets have particular trouble passing Curry, and some with the Wright Brothers. Another has trouble with Aerospace module 5.

(Edited to remove sarcasm.)

I feel very sad when I read this.  My son has been a cadet for over a year and has yet to pass his PT so he can't get his first promotion. He has passed every written test with flying colors.  He is the best Cadet in AE but he can't pass PT.  We have tried working with him.  Running nightly.  And now joining a gym and getting a personal trainer but he still can't pass.  I guess you are saying he is not suitable for CAP.  He is always smiling when he leaves the meetings but has gotten to dread going to PT because he's embarassed.  The Colonel & the squad all cheer him on but he just can't do it.  He is asking to quit but I wanted him to join to develop his leadership skills.. not to learn to give up. 

What should I/could I do?  Is it time to give up before he hits another birthday making PT ever harder still?

[Eclipse]

What should I/could I do?  Is it time to give up before he hits another birthday making PT ever harder still?

Another birthday?  How long has this gone on and at what level?
What is he missing?  Everything or just one part?

If he has a legitimate physical limitation he can be assessed by a physician and provide documentation that he
fits into Category 2-4:

Category I - Unrestricted

Category II - Temporarily Restricted (at the discretion of the Unit CC and generally not for more then 6 months)

Category III – Partially Restricted (requires physician)

Category IV- Indefinitely Restricted (requires physician)

Cadets in Cat II can promote achievements, but not milestones  Thety are not allowed to even attempt PT until the category
is changed back to CAT I, and it's not an "in and out" thing.  In order to progress past milestones, they have to be in Cat III or IV.

Honestly, most reasonably active cadets can pass the PT, especially the early rounds, without too much additional effort.
If he is unable, then he may have a legitimate physical limitation (more then one struggling cadet has been found to
have a serious ailment because of an exam prompted by failing PT), if not, then it is what it is.  CAP has objective standards,
and they have to be met by those who are deemed capable of meeting them.

[Eclipse]

[lmgtfy]define fundraiser[/lmgtfy]

And our squadron offers small scholarships for summer encampment and NCSAs.

You never answered this question. 

What is a "fundraiser" as per the "three" your unit is doing a month?

So far you've indicated that you spend 1/2 your meeting time a month on drill, and do three fundraisers a
month.  From 50k feet that looks like a lot of time spent on areas not helping your cadets promote.

[NC Hokie]

I feel very sad when I read this.  My son has been a cadet for over a year and has yet to pass his PT so he can't get his first promotion. He has passed every written test with flying colors.  He is the best Cadet in AE but he can't pass PT.  We have tried working with him.  Running nightly.  And now joining a gym and getting a personal trainer but he still can't pass.  I guess you are saying he is not suitable for CAP.  He is always smiling when he leaves the meetings but has gotten to dread going to PT because he's embarassed.  The Colonel & the squad all cheer him on but he just can't do it.  He is asking to quit but I wanted him to join to develop his leadership skills.. not to learn to give up. 

What should I/could I do?  Is it time to give up before he hits another birthday making PT ever harder still?

Is there ANY physiological reason that he cannot pass the parts of the CPFT that he is having trouble with?  If so, and with proper documentation from his physician, he can be placed into one of the restricted physical fitness categories, which may help.

Are you sure that the CPFT is being administered properly?  He only has to pass one of the runs and two of the other three events to pass the CPFT, but I have heard of units that require a passing score on all five events.

Finally, page 6 of the New Cadet Guide (http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/New_Cadet_Guide_Collected__Reduced_15A1D3E72608D.pdf) has a good running plan for cadets that struggle with the mile run.

[a2capt]

PT can be medically waived at the unit level for non-milestone promotions.

It will take a doctors note to waive it at the milestone level.

A unit waiver isn't a cop-out, a free pass, etc. because the milestone will still ultimately be a show stopper, but in cases where the cadet is working on it, improving, just not fast enough, but perhaps a stripe will only help with motivation..

When we've gone that route, we still require PT participation, and typically it's an issue where the cadet may be having issue with just one area of PT, typically the run, but sometimes it's one of the other areas, and since you've got to pass two of three, and one must be a running activity .. it can be a challenge in the beginning.

Yup, it only gets harder as the age adds up, and they -definitely- have to be doing more PT than just the once a month opportunity at CAP, to get over that hump, and use all the opportunities in school to their fullest.

[Cadetter]

[lmgtfy]define fundraiser[/lmgtfy]

And our squadron offers small scholarships for summer encampment and NCSAs.

You never answered this question. 

What is a "fundraiser" as per the "three" your unit is doing a month?

So far you've indicated that you spend 1/2 your meeting time a month on drill, and do three fundraisers a
month.  From 50k feet that looks like a lot of time spent on areas not helping your cadets promote.

We go out and park cars, clean up somewhere, etc., and they're fundraisers. Not always 3 per month, 1-3 per month.

We're now spending 15-30 min on drill. More leadership and aerospace classes from the textbook.

CAP is too hard on some parents, who are otherwise busy and even have a difficult time taking their cadet to weekly meetings.

Promoting isn't optional. I don't like saying up or out, though. Some cadets decide they are to immature for promotion, and hence do not promote.

Most of our cadets have regular access to computers. The three who don't are the most active promoters. Our unit offers drill tests every week except PT.

Well, my wing cadet summer encampment commander hasn't promoted in a year or two. Then again, he's staffed 10 encampments, gone on IACE more than once (I think), and is the only person qualified.

As for not passing tests - Our cadets have particular trouble passing Curry, and some with the Wright Brothers. Another has trouble with Aerospace module 5.

(Edited to remove sarcasm.)

I feel very sad when I read this.  My son has been a cadet for over a year and has yet to pass his PT so he can't get his first promotion. He has passed every written test with flying colors.  He is the best Cadet in AE but he can't pass PT.  We have tried working with him.  Running nightly.  And now joining a gym and getting a personal trainer but he still can't pass.  I guess you are saying he is not suitable for CAP.  He is always smiling when he leaves the meetings but has gotten to dread going to PT because he's embarassed.  The Colonel & the squad all cheer him on but he just can't do it.  He is asking to quit but I wanted him to join to develop his leadership skills.. not to learn to give up. 

What should I/could I do?  Is it time to give up before he hits another birthday making PT ever harder still?

I am not saying he's not suitable for CAP. Our two most motivated cadets can't pass PT. They're definitely suitable for CAP. And I can't even get a single pushup!

[NC Hokie]

PT can be medically waived at the unit level for non-milestone promotions.

Can you provide a citation for that?  I remember hearing/seeing that somewhere, but I couldn't find it in 52-16.

[Eclipse]

^ Category II is commander's discretion up until the next milestone.

(Note III & IV require Physician's evaluation, II does not, ergo, it's up to the CC).

[Cadetter]

PT can be medically waived at the unit level for non-milestone promotions.

Can you provide a citation for that?  I remember hearing/seeing that somewhere, but I couldn't find it in 52-16.

Look under CAPR 52-16, 2-12.

[NC Hokie]

PT can be medically waived at the unit level for non-milestone promotions.

Can you provide a citation for that?  I remember hearing/seeing that somewhere, but I couldn't find it in 52-16.

Sorry, didn't catch "medically" the first three times I read your comment.

[skywise123]

I am not saying he's not suitable for CAP. Our two most motivated cadets can't pass PT. They're definitely suitable for CAP. And I can't even get a single pushup!
[/quote]


I feel much better now then.  Because my son couldn't do any when he joined, he can do 5-9 now depending on the night and is 20 seconds short on the mile.  But it's very frustrating to fail every week.  He has the best AE scores and attends most meetings and even weekend fundraiser which are always fun.  But some of the newer recruits have promoted several times and he's still not even an Airmen.

Our Commander is kind of strict though.  I've considered switching to another unit but I'd rather not.

[Eclipse]

I've considered switching to another unit but I'd rather not.

The standards won't be any different at another squadron, though admittedly CAP has an ongoing issues with the
consistency of application of the program for both adults and cadets.

The first thing any good commander is going to ask you when you discuss a transfer is "Why?", followed up
by a conversation with your current CC,  and if the only legit reason is because your son is struggling with PT
a transfer should be out of the question.

We're not supposed to encourage members to "shop units" to find lower standards when they can't meet the minimums.

Your best bet is to discuss a CAT II situation in the near term, while continuing to work on his progress.  If you wind
up having a CAT II restriction approved, then there's no point in working on the current achievement level, you
need to start pressing towards the PT requirements of the next milestone.

[Майор Хаткевич]

If a cadet has an issue, it IS possible (say for obesity) to put a cadet in Cat II, have him work on his PT, but allow him to promote without passing. Some will view it as "letting someone slide", but the other side of the coin is letting this cadet participate without discouragement. Of course at some point less than 6 months in, there better be some sort of progress.

[a2capt]

...which is why Cat II is good for non-milestones only, at the unit level. Requires a professional, external diagnosis to move past the milestone.

[lordmonar]

Personally......I would make the following changes to PT.

Keep the Mitchel standards as is.

At curry the standard to to take the test and establish a base line.

For each promotion from there on....the cadet must show improvement in each category or meet the Mitchell standard.

So  Cadet can only do one push up for Curry....he needs to do at least 2 for Arnold.  If he did 10 for Curry he must do 11 for Arnold.

Past Mitchell we leave the standard at the Mitchell level.

YMMV.

[Eclipse]

Past Mitchell we leave the standard at the Mitchell level.

An interesting idea, because at least the ability to maintain that standard will be important going forward.

The expectations into Phase IV get pretty aggressive, and I've seen Spaatz cadets miss because of
a single point of PT - cadets who are otherwise considered >very< fit, but just can't get to the mile time.

In one case I know of personally, the cadet was a marathoner, he could run at his pace forever, but
could not get into the mindset for the mile time.