Term of Address for a C/CMSgt serving as First Sergeant?

[davidsinn]

That's what I'm talking about. People seem to be under the impression that ALL 1st Sergeants are like that. I have no opinion that I am "Speciallar," but I know my duties and excell in them, which may or may not make me more special. Am I special because I show up to EVERY meeting? Am I special because I work EVERY event? Am I special because I'm the first shirt? Answer to all: No. But I am dedicated in what I do, and I will continue to be so until school or parents force me out, and I would go out fighting.

We're under the impression that you are like that because you stated you will only accept being called 1st sergeant when the regs quite clearly say otherwise. Also it appears that you wear the diamond in your chevrons. That is also not allowed any longer.

[Salty]

As a point of reference, when I was in the USAF, the First Sergeant was called by his/her rank or addressed as sir/ma'am.  I've never seen anybody call the First Sergeant by that title.  The only time the First Sergeant was called that was if you were referring to the position.

[lordmonar]

My 2 cents: If a cadet has been appointed to a particular position, you should respect that, from both up and down the chain of command. I call the XO in my squadron "XO," and so I expect the same respect. Though if I were working some event composed of other squadrons, I would happily respond to "Chief". But at the squadron, I take nothing but "1st Sergeant" or other names for "1st sergeant". But that's just me.

There is a difference between calling your XO "hey XO can you look at this" and having all your cadets saying "Yes XO!" "No XO!" when reporting or in formation.

In the context that the OP put it.....if the XO/CCF/CC asks a question....you respond with "sir/ma'am" or maybe "Sgt" or "Chief".....but not by their duty title.

[SarDragon]

My commander when I was with 99/OS/NHQ-113 was the First Shirt of the base services squadron. Never in all the times that I visited his office during working hours did I ever hear him addressed as First Sergeant. It was his rank, or sir, or, in a very few instances, his first name.

[Abby.L]

This goes into something that was said earlier. How would you identify the first sergeant in a group of SNCOs? I understand that it's not in the regs, but some rules need to be broken. Also, the Primary reason that I take nothing but "1st Sergeant" is not because it sounds cool, as some would say, but because it is necisary to distinguish myself from the other NCOs. As well, my commander will not accept anyone not calling me 1st Sergeant. So would it not be something that, if you REALLY wanted to fix, would have to be fixed in the higher echelons? And I find that kinda weird that no one in your Wing/Squadron/Ect. called the 1st Sergeant by that title. That's not something I would expect. But we are CAP, and although we are associated with the Air Force, we hold different traditions. This is why you see ribbons on the blues shirt, why you hear "1st Sergeant" at encampment, and why you shun the lack of polish on some cadet's shoes. These are all traditions(or nightmares) that we have that the Air Force does not. Is there anything wrong with this? No, as we are a different organization.

[Salty]

The diamond is how you'd know.

[MIKE]

Diamonds not authorized.

[Salty]

Any particular reason why it isn't?

[Abby.L]

I understand the diamond, but as Davidsinn said earlier, the diamond is not within regulations. So in a world where all regs are upheld, how would we know? Just describe him/her to whoever needs him/her?

...Or.... We could learn that a little rule breaking is fine with the intention of assisting the cadets in the learning process, and allowing people to find the Shirt easily?

[Extremepredjudice]

Any particular reason why it isn't?

It was taken out.

Calling the 1st sergeant by his title is also a sogn of respect. It is tradition, also.

[Abby.L]

Any particular reason why it isn't?

It was taken out.

Calling the 1st sergeant by his title is also a sogn of respect. It is tradition, also.

That's why I do what I do. And yea, it was taken out. But I'll wear 'em till I get officer.

[lordmonar]

This goes into something that was said earlier. How would you identify the first sergeant in a group of SNCOs? I understand that it's not in the regs, but some rules need to be broken. Also, the Primary reason that I take nothing but "1st Sergeant" is not because it sounds cool, as some would say, but because it is necisary to distinguish myself from the other NCOs. As well, my commander will not accept anyone not calling me 1st Sergeant. So would it not be something that, if you REALLY wanted to fix, would have to be fixed in the higher echelons? And I find that kinda weird that no one in your Wing/Squadron/Ect. called the 1st Sergeant by that title. That's not something I would expect. But we are CAP, and although we are associated with the Air Force, we hold different traditions. This is why you see ribbons on the blues shirt, why you hear "1st Sergeant" at encampment, and why you shun the lack of polish on some cadet's shoes. These are all traditions(or nightmares) that we have that the Air Force does not. Is there anything wrong with this? No, as we are a different organization.

Okay.  On a certain level you are correct.....there is a time an place to say "this regulation/directive/order is stupid" and to do the right thing.

Having said that.....it takes years of learning the regs, the organisation and your command to know when you can do this.
My point is as CADET CMSgt you do not.......I SAY AGAIN......do not have that level of expertise and/or maturity to start going into that area of leadership.

Before YOU get yourself....or more importantly your commander into trouble.....follow the regs as written.  Any questions you problems you encounter should be take to your deputy commander for cadets or squadron commander.  Let them make the call and then press on.

End of lecture.

[Salty]

Ideally I'd have the shirt make it a point to make himself/herself known to new and old cadets constantly.  I'd probably do this by having the shirt brief the cadets once or twice a month as a reminder of who the shirt is, what their job is, and how the shirt is there to help them.  I think all this could be done without the need to have to refer to the shirt by position title instead of rank.

When I was the cadet commander of my squadron my cadets referred to me by rank not as cadet commander.

I'm not opposed to calling the shirt by his title but I think the rank carries more weight than the appointed position and I don't think it should be mandatory to call the shirt by his title.

[tsrup]

Any particular reason why it isn't?

It was taken out.

Calling the 1st sergeant by his title is also a sogn of respect. It is tradition, also.

That's why I'm special, and I'll continue to break the regulations, just so nobody forgets.

FTFY,
again.

[SarDragon]

Levilockling, I think you need to sit back and consider that you are addressing a crowd with dozens of years of CAP and military experience, far outweighing yours. Your world view seems to be very narrow, and colored by your own perceived awesomeness.

Just because you think something is kool, or even right, doesn't make it so. Many of us, in our youth probably had similar views, but learned, sooner than later, that the wisdom shared by our peers and mentors was good to pay attention to. I's not seeing that you have done this yet. Carrying an attitude like this into the adult world is going to reach right up and bite you in the ass.

Relax, learn the rules, and how to follow them, and become a good example for those around you, instead of the bad one you are now.

[Extremepredjudice]

Levilockling, I think you need to sit back and consider that you are addressing a crowd with dozens of years of CAP and military experience, far outweighing yours. Your world view seems to be very narrow, and colored by your own perceived awesomeness.

Just because you think something is kool, or even right, doesn't make it so. Many of us, in our youth probably had similar views, but learned, sooner than later, that the wisdom shared by our peers and mentors was good to pay attention to. I's not seeing that you have done this yet. Carrying an attitude like this into the adult world is going to reach right up and bite you in the ass.

Relax, learn the rules, and how to follow them, and become a good example for those around you, instead of the bad one you are now.

sir,

Just because you are older doesn't mean you are always right. Yes you have had more experiences, but everyone is wrong sometimes. Sometimes the regs can be wrong. Believe it or not.

[tsrup]

Levilockling, I think you need to sit back and consider that you are addressing a crowd with dozens of years of CAP and military experience, far outweighing yours. Your world view seems to be very narrow, and colored by your own perceived awesomeness.

Just because you think something is kool, or even right, doesn't make it so. Many of us, in our youth probably had similar views, but learned, sooner than later, that the wisdom shared by our peers and mentors was good to pay attention to. I's not seeing that you have done this yet. Carrying an attitude like this into the adult world is going to reach right up and bite you in the ass.

Relax, learn the rules, and how to follow them, and become a good example for those around you, instead of the bad one you are now.

sir,

Just because you are older doesn't mean you are always right. Yes you have had more experiences, but everyone is wrong sometimes. Sometimes the regs can be wrong. Believe it or not.

But this is not one of those times.

And it is the duty of the First Sergeant (and all those in positions of authority) to carry out the regulations as written regardless of personal opinion.  That's part of being an adult. 

If there is a problem with the regulation, forward it up the chain of command for review. 

[SarDragon]

Levilockling, I think you need to sit back and consider that you are addressing a crowd with dozens of years of CAP and military experience, far outweighing yours. Your world view seems to be very narrow, and colored by your own perceived awesomeness.

Just because you think something is kool, or even right, doesn't make it so. Many of us, in our youth probably had similar views, but learned, sooner than later, that the wisdom shared by our peers and mentors was good to pay attention to. I's not seeing that you have done this yet. Carrying an attitude like this into the adult world is going to reach right up and bite you in the ass.

Relax, learn the rules, and how to follow them, and become a good example for those around you, instead of the bad one you are now.

sir,

Just because you are older doesn't mean you are always right. Yes you have had more experiences, but everyone is wrong sometimes. Sometimes the regs can be wrong. Believe it or not.

Just because you, and perhaps others, believe that a reg is wrong, doesn't give you, or anyone at your, or my, level license to ignore or disobey it. That's that integrity thing in the Core Values.

[lordmonar]

Levilockling, I think you need to sit back and consider that you are addressing a crowd with dozens of years of CAP and military experience, far outweighing yours. Your world view seems to be very narrow, and colored by your own perceived awesomeness.

Just because you think something is kool, or even right, doesn't make it so. Many of us, in our youth probably had similar views, but learned, sooner than later, that the wisdom shared by our peers and mentors was good to pay attention to. I's not seeing that you have done this yet. Carrying an attitude like this into the adult world is going to reach right up and bite you in the ass.

Relax, learn the rules, and how to follow them, and become a good example for those around you, instead of the bad one you are now.

sir,

Just because you are older doesn't mean you are always right. Yes you have had more experiences, but everyone is wrong sometimes. Sometimes the regs can be wrong. Believe it or not.

Nope....you are absolutely right......just because we are old does not mean we are right.
But we have been there done that and got the kick in the butt for being wrong when we were young and dumb.
Our advice is just that.  Advice....take it or leave it.....we are only trying to help you avoid the pitfalls we fell into way back when the dinosaurs ruled the world.

Blowing off our advices just because a bunch of old farts on CAPTALK gave it to you is just as stupid as us old guys ignoring inovation because it comes from new guy/kid.

Where the problem lies....it the choice of tactics being used.  If you want to quote "how the real USAF does it" or "tradition" then you have to listen to the words of wisdom from those who have BTDT and lived and some cases created those traditions.

Bottom line as SarDragon said is that if you carry over your big frog in a little pond into the real world you are going to get slapped down....sometimes very hard.

We simply would like you to learn that lesson here where the hurt is small and manageable.

YMMV.

[Extremepredjudice]

Sir, I get what you are trying to say, and I respect you and other captalk users. I take your opinions and advice seriously, and try and change my behavior/attitude (when applicable)

That said, I wonder what 1st sergeants at encampment will think when I tell them they are wearing unauthorized acrouments. Or that I don't have to call 'em 1st shirt.

There is a time when it matters, and a time you should just go with the flow. A time to stand up, and a time to run away and hide... 

In the grand scheme of things, does calling a chief first sergeant matter? It isn't the end of the world.


Besides, many of you said you called your first sergeants (in the military) by 1st shirt/shirt. Shirt/1st shirt are relatively the same as first sergeant. Everyone calls their 1st shirt something different. My squadron calls ours dad.(it is a color guard thing)