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Bye bye NCASE

Started by RiverAux, December 25, 2006, 10:57:39 PM

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RiverAux

Another intersting thing is that CAP is apparently trying to move away from our only real AE program for adults -- NCASE.  According to the Nov NEC minutes we're going to try to shift it over to a consortium of aerospace organizations and not run it directly.  Apparently we haven't been getting enough people to show up to make it worth while. 

Seems to me that CAP really needs to re-think its AE mission.  As I see it, rather than as the third pillar of CAP we have been treating it as a subsidiary of the cadet program.  Besides the Yeager award there isn't any real AE program for seniors and there isn't really any apparent program for bringing AE to the public other than to kids.  But, we can probably say that we do (to quote one of our reasons for being established in the US Code): "provide aviation education and training especially to its senior and cadet members."

But, where is a powerpoint program that I as a senior member can give at a Kiwanis Club or other such group that will "Encourage and aid citizens of the United States in contributing their efforts, services, and resources in developing aviation and in maintaining air supremacy" and exactly what is CAP's strategy "To encourage and foster civil aviation in local communities"?

If all our AE program is really going to be about is giving some materials to teachers and making cadets pass tests then we need to stop saying it is one of the primary purposes of CAP. 


Major Carrales

I think the AE program needs to be more refined and redefined.


Originally the itent of AE was different than today.  Back in CAPs founding and created 3 missions era,  I imagine a scene of Flight helmet wearing men in ridding pants riding into a county fair in a bi-plane and ministering to a crowd of boater, bowler and fedora wearing country folk all pointing and saying "Look, Mortimer...its one of them new fangled autogyros!"

This, according to by father and grandfather, was exactally what aviation life was like to the commonman in my neck of the wood in the 40s, 50s and 60s.

But today, I think the approach needs to be more technical.  A concentration on application centered AE instead of a basic intro.  Teach "aviationsmanship (?)" and make willing cadets into people poised to take to the sky.  CAP Officers to might benefit from "Professional Development" oriented AE.

"We have been given the power to change CAP, let's keep the momentum going!"

Major Joe Ely "Sparky" Carrales, CAP
Commander
Coastal Bend Cadet Squadron
SWR-TX-454

DNall

Quote from: RiverAux on December 25, 2006, 10:57:39 PM
But, where is a powerpoint program that I as a senior member can give at a Kiwanis Club or other such group that will "Encourage and aid citizens of the United States in contributing their efforts, services, and resources in developing aviation and in maintaining air supremacy" and exactly what is CAP's strategy "To encourage and foster civil aviation in local communities"?
That would be recruiting!

I'm disappointed they want to push NCASE off rather than figure out how to fix the problems that keep it from being successful (namely w/o airlift it's too costly to attend). It is by the way just about the only external AE we do. I think the better strategy would be to seek out AFA & AOPA as partners.

I do agree though that the program needs redefining. I'd start by saying the AF doesn't fund such a program for good will. They do it cause the juxt of the program is supposed to be producing aviation minded young leaders for the military, and a public that supports a stong Air & Space force when talking to their congressman.

Now then, I'm all for a better defined AE program on the senior side. Yeager is nice, but it needs to go back to closed book, but maybe could be split in two sections to be more managable. Then there's instructor aspects & external aspects that can be covered. Some of that might well fall under the spec track that needs some work, but some might also be written into the overall PD program so everyone has to do a little at some point if they want to move up.

Quote from: Major Carrales on December 25, 2006, 11:39:02 PM
"aviationsmanship (?)"
Airmanship is the word you're looking for. Not the AF related version, that's just the word.

RiverAux

QuoteThat would be recruiting!

No, it would be promoting aviation and air supremacy.  CAP already has presentations to use in recruiting CAP members.  But where are the presentations showing the benefits of having a local airport or the importance of aerospace in maintaining our position in the world? 

JohnKachenmeister

We are SUPPOSED to be advocating aviation and air supremacy on behalf of the Air Force, and advocating for general aviation on behalf of the GA community.  We have abrogated those missions to the Air Force Association and the Aircraft Owners' and Pilots' Association respectively.

AE has always been the stepchild of CAP.  Personally, I think the fix is to find within our ranks in each wing some officers who yearn and burn to do aerospace education in the community, and structure a senior squadron or flight for them with no other mission than AE.  Let them run with it, and amaze us with the results when they are released from the burdens of managing cadets and maintaining mission proficiency.
Another former CAP officer

RiverAux

Part of the problem is that it is such a nebulous mission.  The CG Aux has as one of its main missions recreational boating safety.  Its clear what they are trying to do -- reduce boating accidents and save lives through boater education safety classes, doing boating safety checks, etc. 

What are the goals of CAP's AE program?  How are they measured?   Is it even necessary?  After all I think pretty much everyone recognizes the importance of satellites, air travel, etc. 

Just for fun I spent a few minutes browsing CAP's site trying to find out exactly what the AE program's goals were and couldn't really come up with anything concrete. 

So,  I went to the AE regulation (CAPR 280-2).  Interestingly, it mentions 2 of the 3 AE-related purposes of CAP but it totally ignores the part about developing civil aviation.

All in all, I'm fairly happy with our internal AE program.  Sure, its not great for seniors, but I don't think they're terribly interested in general AE anyway. 

So, what are the goals of the external AE program according to the reg? Well, they don't really say but basically seem to indicate that we're focused on providing AE to kids in schools, either directly or through educating their teachers.  And, I do think we've got a lot of stuff available to do this. 

But, to what end? 

The natural fit for CAP probably would have been to develop into the premier aviation safety organization in the country.  It probably should have been us, rather than the AOPA, that took the lead in this area.  It just seems like such a natural.  But, aviation safety isn't something we seem to be either mandated or interested in promoting. 

JohnKachenmeister

River:

Of course, you are correct. 

The AE mission was one which was tacked on by Congress, and one that has never been clearly defined.

But that lack of definition creates an opportunity, which CAP is letting slip away.  Or already has let slip away, depending upon your level of pessimism.

Even using AE as an extension of SAR and sponsoring survival classes for GA pilots would be better than the unfocused "Talk to teachers" approach we have now.
Another former CAP officer

A.Member

#7
Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on December 26, 2006, 03:30:14 AM
We are SUPPOSED to be advocating aviation and air supremacy on behalf of the Air Force, and advocating for general aviation on behalf of the GA community.  We have abrogated those missions to the Air Force Association and the Aircraft Owners' and Pilots' Association respectively.
While that may not be technically correct, I do agree.  Other organizations have filled the gap.  That doesn't mean we can't be equally effective as, say the AOPA, but the program needs a serious overhaul/refocus.

Quote from: RiverAuxAll in all, I'm fairly happy with our internal AE program.  Sure, it's not great for seniors, but I don't think they're terribly interested in general AE anyway.
Personally, I think the AE program is weak.  This mission has been a distant 3rd and it really shouldn't be.  The idea is to promote aviation.  Aviation is at the core of the organization.  We're not the Civil Ground Patrol.  As discussed, more robust programs are need both for cadets as well as adults. 

Any formal adult program is virtually non-existent.  I'm not down on the Yeager as some people appear to be - it has value - but once you complete it, then what?  I don't have any answers but much more is needed.   In addition, the promotion of aviation to adults outside the organization is non-existent - that needs to change.  Some out of the box thinking is really needed here.

As for the cadet programs, let's see what we have:
*  AE modules - the text overall is not bad but more useful hands on activities should be supported.     
*  AEX program - a crappy program that National throws at squadrons.  It is far too elementary for nearly all cadets but especially the older ones.  A complete redo.
*  Model Rocketry - our cadets love rockets but the program doesn't seem to be pushed by National.  Rockets can be expensive, although grants, etc. can be obtained to subsidize some of the cost.  Still, it seems the program is just missing something to make it feel useful.

We should really be the premier organization on any aerospace related issue - not just like any other club you can join (i.e. model rocketry or r/c airplanes).  Some random thoughts - I'd really like to see:
*  significantly greater support for a broader range of hands on activities (actual detailed walkthroughs of aircraft, tours of facilities, museums, industry experts, etc.). 
*  O-flights more directly tied to AE exercises. 
*  Some greater CAP sponsored campaign to drive the public promotion of aviation.  The future of GA is under attack - what can we do to not only ensure it's existance but to help it thrive?
*  a concerted effort to really lobby our resources to provide us with access to some of the unique tools, facilities, etc. that could set us apart and help the program/organization excel. 
*  Help USAF better understand the available potential at a "local level". 

As for the original question, I can't speak to the value of NCASE because I've never been to one.   However, if any of the material that is put out by National is an indication (AEX program, as an example), I wouldn't have very high expectations for it (hopefully that's not true).  For an organization that supposedly prides itself on the promotion of aviation, accessibility does seem to be an obstacle. 

Like I said, I don't necessarily have the answers but discussions like these are where solutions start.
"For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

DNall

Quote from: RiverAux on December 26, 2006, 02:37:32 AM
QuoteThat would be recruiting!

No, it would be promoting aviation and air supremacy.  CAP already has presentations to use in recruiting CAP members.  But where are the presentations showing the benefits of having a local airport or the importance of aerospace in maintaining our position in the world? 
Complete sentences my friend: "Encourage and aid citizens of the United States in contributing their efforts, services, and resources in developing aviation and in maintaining air supremacy" That means bring your skills/resources/etc as a CAP member... where your job is to dev/maintain aviation/air supremacy (AF mission). Or if you don't want to join CAP, then at least support the AF mission & us as we help w/ that mission. External AE ties into that, and isn't typically done at the Sq level. I'm not saying we don't need more & better AEOs, but there's a laundry list of things that come first.


RiverAux

That doesn't even make sense.  You're saying that one of the purposes of the CAP is to get people to join CAP? No, it is obvious to me, and you hit on it later, that this is what we're now calling the external AE "program". 


ZigZag911

One fruitful area for support and public education would be in making the case for generala viation to the citizens of our communities.

In some areas CAO has become actively involved in saving GA airports slated for other development...but it would be so much more effective to get themessage out BEFORE issues arise

sandman

My question is: is external AE (or even internal AE) relevant in this day and age? With the web and "mainstream" media (I enjoy the "Military Channel" and the "History Channel" among others), what more can the AE program offer the general public? ???
MAJ, US Army (Ret)
Major, Civil Air Patrol
Major, 163rd ATKW Support, Joint Medical Command

JohnKachenmeister

Quote from: sandman on December 26, 2006, 11:54:05 PM
My question is: is external AE (or even internal AE) relevant in this day and age? With the web and "mainstream" media (I enjoy the "Military Channel" and the "History Channel" among others), what more can the AE program offer the general public? ???

Actually, Sandy, what have we EVER offered?

And you are right, cable TV can reach a wide, if niche, audience.  Why aren't WE producing educational/documentary videos?  I'd rather see that than another re-run of "The Blue Angels Year" or "BUDS-- How We Screw With SEALS."

Why coudn't WE produce a series of 1/2 hour shows on CAP heroes?  We have a 65 year history of heroism; sinking submarines, running SAR, directing traffic...

D'Oh!
Another former CAP officer

sandman

Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on December 27, 2006, 12:27:59 AM
Quote from: sandman on December 26, 2006, 11:54:05 PM
My question is: is external AE (or even internal AE) relevant in this day and age? With the web and "mainstream" media (I enjoy the "Military Channel" and the "History Channel" among others), what more can the AE program offer the general public? ???

Actually, Sandy, what have we EVER offered?
That's what I meant to say....and I go by sandy clause during the holidays (just a phrase I'm going through) ;D

Quote from: John K.

And you are right, cable TV can reach a wide, if niche, audience.  Why aren't WE producing educational/documentary videos?  I'd rather see that than another re-run of "The Blue Angels Year" or "BUDS-- How We Screw With SEALS."

Why coudn't WE produce a series of 1/2 hour shows on CAP heroes?  We have a 65 year history of heroism; sinking submarines, running SAR, directing traffic...

D'Oh!

Anybody care to donate a few million for production? Just send me the monies and I'll help set up the production company...after all, I'm right next to Hollyweird   ;D ;D
MAJ, US Army (Ret)
Major, Civil Air Patrol
Major, 163rd ATKW Support, Joint Medical Command

A.Member

#14
Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on December 27, 2006, 12:27:59 AM
And you are right, cable TV can reach a wide, if niche, audience.  Why aren't WE producing educational/documentary videos?  I'd rather see that than another re-run of "The Blue Angels Year" or "BUDS-- How We Screw With SEALS."

Why coudn't WE produce a series of 1/2 hour shows on CAP heroes?  We have a 65 year history of heroism; sinking submarines, running SAR, directing traffic...

D'Oh!
I actually think you're on to something.  Even if it's not having a series, how about advertising - PSAs, whatever.   That's our audience.

I've always thought that if a person could track down the right writer/director (or even get the screenplay written), a feature length movie (from "Hollywood" - for the theaters) on our WWII exploits are incredibly fascinating, almost completely unknown outside the organization, and make for a fantastic story.  If told/presented correctly, it would be huge in many respects. 

The fact that these niche channels/programs exist should illustrate exactly how much interest there is in aviation.  How can we, as an organization, exploit that?  I want to see aviation thrive at all levels.  That is supposedly is one of our core missions.  We need to make this a priority.
"For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

JohnKachenmeister

Nice try.  Somebody wanted to start a CAP Heritage Flight, and I told them if they bought the planes, I'd fly them.  I'm still waiting.

Actually, I don't think it would take "Millions."   We have tons of historical and archival footage, and stills that can be interspersed into a production.  By using moving cameras, pan and zoom, we can create the illusion of movement with stills.

We have a collection of historical insignia, and volunteer actors, actresses, and technicians that could be used in production.

On top of that, we have the Science channel... How about taping one of our zipper-suited sun-gods talking about the science of flight?  We could do a whole series on that alone, and it wouldn't take much past a speaker, a camera crew, and some computer-generated graphics.

I'd just bet we have SOMEWHERE among the 56,000 CAP volunteers a few guys with TV/Video experience.
Another former CAP officer

A.Member

Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on December 27, 2006, 01:09:38 AM
Nice try.  Somebody wanted to start a CAP Heritage Flight, and I told them if they bought the planes, I'd fly them.  I'm still waiting.
The problem is that no one even knows about CAP to support such a fantastic endeavor.   Once the word is out, I think a Hertige Flight could take place...would almost be demanded.  That's why a feature film told like "The Right Stuff" or "Band of Brothers" would be so significant.  Something that entertains and inspires.  It would generate significant interestfrom so many aspects. 

Not to say I'd want a film like Top Gun but the Navy, to this day, is still reaping the benefits of that production.  The point is, I think we could/should justify having such a production done professionally by real writers, directors, and actors.  Just throwing out ideas. 

"For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

RiverAux

I hate to say it, but the failure to get CAP coverage on Wings (now the military channel) has got to be laid at the feet of the National PA program.  While I've got to believe they've tried, it obviously hasn't worked.  Any one of us could probably come up with 1 or 2 dozen angles that would work for 15-30 minute segments.  

However, to be fair, this would require granting the  networks fairly complete access to various CAP activities and that is something that can scare the bejeezus out of an organization.  Say, for example, we granted them full-access to an actual missing airplane search mission and they caught on film some base staff member making a huge mistake (sending 2 CAP planes to the same grid).  Even if nothing bad happened, it could make us look bad.  

However, as the old saying goes, "No guts, no glory!"

sandman

Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on December 27, 2006, 01:09:38 AM
Actually, I don't think it would take "Millions.".....
Um, no. I need the millions to do it properly ;)

Really though, it would take a heafty sum to coax a reputable company to produce it and sell it to the History Channel or something similar. Editing fees are somewhat expensive too. But there are a lot of creative people out there with some powerful software and who knows....something good could be grafted together. Worth a shot anybody?
MAJ, US Army (Ret)
Major, Civil Air Patrol
Major, 163rd ATKW Support, Joint Medical Command

Major Carrales

Quote from: sandman on December 27, 2006, 01:19:18 AM
Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on December 27, 2006, 01:09:38 AM
Actually, I don't think it would take "Millions.".....
Um, no. I need the millions to do it properly ;)

Really though, it would take a heafty sum to coax a reputable company to produce it and sell it to the History Channel or something similar. Editing fees are somewhat expensive too. But there are a lot of creative people out there with some powerful software and who knows....something good could be grafted together. Worth a shot anybody?

We made a film about the USS Lexington as part of a TEACHING AMERICAN HISTORY GRANT...

It was fun...

http://www.tah.esc2.net/project_lexington.html

The only way would be to apply for a special AE grant.
"We have been given the power to change CAP, let's keep the momentum going!"

Major Joe Ely "Sparky" Carrales, CAP
Commander
Coastal Bend Cadet Squadron
SWR-TX-454