Warning - Nothing to do with CAP #2

[Trung Si Ma]

As some of you know, I'm in England for a couple of weeks for business and somehow, we actually got a day off.  While others were out touring the numerous wonderful sights of London, I went out to Biggin Hill and rented a C-172.

Renting an aircraft while traveling is not a new experience for me, but this is a whole new country.  The initial paperwork was eerily similar – passport to prove citizenship and legality to be there plus one additional government issued picture ID.  I was going to use my concealed carry permit, but decided that they probably wouldn't see the humor of it, so I used my retired military ID.  Photo copies of my license and medical and, since I was taking one of their instructors up with me, they just wrote down the date of my BFR.  (Side note – their currency requirements are exactly the same as ours)

Walked out to the aircraft with the instructor and was surprised to find out the he didn't have many more hours than I had and that I had more landings then he did!  I'm just an average pilot back home with just over 400 hours and almost 1000 landings, but was told that the numbers would be closer over here if the numbers were reversed, i.e. more hours than landings.  Pay attention, this comes up later and there might even be a test.  He was also instructing solely to build hours to so that he could fly a "real" airplane in a couple of hours.

We did a preflight that I thought was very cursorily, so I asked him if I could show him the preflight that I had been taught when I first started flying.  As I re-did the walk around, I showed him why I was checking some of the things that I was checking.  He was impressed with the thoroughness, but thought that I went overboard.  I explained that I learned how to do it in Alaska and there was a wee bit of distance between airports, but he thought I was wasting my time.  Oh well, to each his own.

As we got into the aircraft and I went into the standard crew briefing (where to meet for a fire on the ground, positive transfer of aircraft controls, vigilance during taxi, sterile cockpit, etc), it was clear that this was all new to him.  So was my insistence on doing the Cessna "seat wiggle" before taxi and again during the run up.  Other than these minor disagreements, everything was good up through the departure hold line.  The instructor now wrote down the time since he only gets paid from "brakes off" to "brakes on".  It made me understand why he was willing to rush through the preflight and get onto the paying part.  I don't agree with it, but I do understand it.

For takeoff, he wanted to do a short field departure "for noise" and so we did.  We flew around for almost two hours (tach time) and then returned.  While we were flying, the winds changed and now instead of 5G8 knots 15 degrees off of runway heading, they were now 10G14 40 degrees off of the runway.  Piece of cake, I'm from Oklahoma and this qualifies as CALM.  For the instructor, it was not a pleasant event and he was very worried about landing in that high a crosswind.  This was a definite case where landing fees (9GBP for a touch and go and 29GBP for a complete stop) got in the way of going out and practicing how to land in a crosswind.  The instructor told me that if the winds had been forecast that high, we would not have gone out.  I told him that this was the kind of cross wind that would bring pilots out  to practice their landings back home.  He was still unhappy.  OK, so I showed off.  Nice crab into the wind transitioning into a nice slip resulted in some chirped tires. 

During the debrief, I was accused of being overly confident on the crosswind landing and told to look for calmer days in which to fly.  He also wasn't happy that I went looking for grass runways (he'd never been on one) and other "un-normal" places to fly into and out of.  Oh, and tail draggers are an antiquated and unsafe aircraft type to fly.  No, he doesn't have time in them either.

The cost of the experience was right at $365.85 for a pleasant day flying around.  The aircraft was 110GBP per hour with a 9GBP per hour fuel surcharge.  The instructor fee was 25GBP, and again he only gets paid brakes off – brakes on.  The nice thing is that they charge by tach time (1.8, 2.1 by Hobbs) plus 14GBP for the map that I keeping as a souvenir.  That's based on a dollar – pound rate of 1.39:1 for an hourly rate of $174 and change for a 172.

But I flew out of Biggin Hill!

[♠SARKID♠]

Sounds like the big pong isn't all that separates our two countries

[RogueLeader]

I've flown with him before in OK, and I can just picture the FI worried face at seeing Trung Si Ma's confidant face at was going on.

[PHall]

It's a "different" kind of flying they do there in the UK and Western Europe for that matter.
Stuff that is "normal" for us in North America is almost an emergency there.

[RogueLeader]

No wonder the germans had trouble with our pilots, we had worse weather to train in, so we could handle it.

[DG]

It is the same in Australia, I found last year.

A pilot having 300 hours is considered to be a very high time pilot.

An instrument rating is considered to be only for the most elite of pilots.

VFR night is considered to be so dangerous, that it requires an instrument rating.  So most operations are limited to VFR day.

When I told them I had 3500 hours, and was not a former military pilot (because of my eyesight), they thought they were dealing with a loonie bird, because no one could have that much "private" time.

Then, everyone runs around with epaulets, and calls themelves the "Royal" flying club, the "Royal" flight school, etc.  You're not really any good unless you can say "Royal" in your name.

I chalked it up to cost.  A 182 rents for $250. an hour.  And every touch and go was about $10. and full stop $25 for landing fees.

And aviation fuel was very high.  Petrol (Autogas) was $2 per liter and 100LL much higher.  Even though AU is a net exporter of petroleum.  But the government sets all fuel prices.  And taxes are high.

Taxes are very high over there, because everything is socialized.  Health care.  Pensions.  Goverment services.

When I inquired as to a CFI position, and said I could teach G1000 or other TAA, including Cirrus and Avidyne, the response was "That won't do you any good over here."  When I asked why not, the response came back, "Because we don't have any of those over here anywhere."  Only round dial.

Everything is very British, which surprised me.  I had always thought Aussies were independent blokes, but I found out first hand, that notion is wrong, the British empire is alive and well.  God save the Queen.

Be grateful for what we still have, here in these United States.

[SaBeR33]

It's hard to believe the guy the OP flew with was an instructor pilot. Trung Si Ma was instructing him, so the former should have been charging the latter and not the other way around. What has happened to the British for them to not have higher standards?

[Fifinella]

As a current "resident" in the UK, all I will say is, "I'm not surprised, and no further comment." 

Glad you enjoyed the experience, though, TSM.

[Trung Si Ma]

Its not just here, I see it a lot while traveling.  A few instruct because they really want to, some do it to help pay for their flying, but most are just building time to move "up".

Judy - you were going to tell us about your meeting with the air cadets - did I miss it?

Don

[Fifinella]

Talked about it here: http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=7013.0

Will be going again this Thursday, and should have more to share after they food poison me I sample their survival cooking.

[Pumbaa]

What has happened to the British for them to not have higher standards?

The sad thing is this is what is coming to the US...  We have lost our "Rugged Individualism".. We are becoming a nation of sissies like Europe has become.  As the UK goes the US goes about 20-30 years later...

I start ground school training shortly....  Hope to get my ticket by the end of the year...

[caprr275]

When I was flying in Belgium last summer on IACE, I became good friends with one of the Belgium air cadets who was out pushing gliders around. He had just got back from the USA, he went to Embry Riddle Prescott for 2 years in which he got his Private, Instrument and Commercial Single and Multi.  He had about 250 hours when he got home. What blew my mind was that he was leaving the next week to get his type rating in a B 373!  At 20 years old he is a first officer on a 373!!!

I still wish I could move other there and fly something like that this early in my life

Pumbaa good luck you will love it

[PHall]

What blew my mind was that he was leaving the next week to get his type rating in a B 373!  At 20 years old he is a first officer on a 373!!!

Okay, I'll bite, what the heck is a B 373?

You wouldn't by chance be referring to the Boeing 737 would you?

[caprr275]

yes i ment a Boeing 737... wow dislexia and beer is not mixing tonight

[DG]

When I was flying in Belgium last summer on IACE, I became good friends with one of the Belgium air cadets who was out pushing gliders around. He had just got back from the USA, he went to Embry Riddle Prescott for 2 years in which he got his Private, Instrument and Commercial Single and Multi.  He had about 250 hours when he got home. What blew my mind was that he was leaving the next week to get his type rating in a B 373!  At 20 years old he is a first officer on a 373!!!

Are you saying if I go to Belgium with 250 hours, I can be a first officer on a B737?

[SarDragon]

Probably train to be one. I have a friend who got into airliners in the '70s with no prior flight experience and worked his way up to the left seat before heart problems grounded him. Don't recall what he flew for his first lessons, but the airline totally trained him.

[JAFO78]

Note to self, don't fly private aircraft outside of US. It is safer here.
Don't fly commercial airlines in Europe your Captain just might be a 18 year old CAP Cadet fresh from solo encampment.  ROFLMAO

[caprr275]

You have to convert your FAA certificates to the European standard but more or less yes you can