Hi All,
I recently created a spreadsheet using the numbers app to plot search patterns in Foreflight. Let me know what you think:
(http://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/ag47/tomireland84/image_zps1fa817c9.jpg)
(http://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/ag47/tomireland84/image_zpsfbad51f7.jpg)
(http://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/ag47/tomireland84/image_zpsfa62db8b.jpg)
File here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/s780woyjdnx9c8j/SAR%20V02.1.numbers (https://www.dropbox.com/s/s780woyjdnx9c8j/SAR%20V02.1.numbers)
Cheers,
Tom
Could you also upload a version saved as an Excel spreadsheet for us non-Mac and iPad people? (If it's not too much hassle)
The data is probably specific to ForeFlight, and if you don't have an iPad, you certainly don't have ForeFlight. :)
Otherwise it's just Lat-Long and you can do that..
Quote from: JerseyCadet on December 24, 2012, 02:13:00 AM
Could you also upload a version saved as an Excel spreadsheet for us non-Mac and iPad people? (If it's not too much hassle)
I can but the file looses some functions as it was created in Numbers. As a2capt was saying the string of coordinates is specific to Foreflight, although it could be modified to suit another program. This works great with the iPhone also.
I was trying to get it working on my iPhone's Foreflight, but Santa treated me to an iPad, so I'll just use it on there! Anyway, thanks for the neat tool.
Tom, I've been trying to do this for a while. Now, how do you translate the results into foreflight's flight plan?
Quote from: Dolphin Driver on January 01, 2013, 02:24:43 PM
Tom, I've been trying to do this for a while. Now, how do you translate the results into foreflight's flight plan?
Hi,
In Numbers, select the output you need and tap 'copy':
(http://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/ag47/tomireland84/image_zps3dae7cfd.jpg)
What you copy looks something like this:
KSAV 32.0000N/80.0000W 32.0833N/80.0000W 32.0833N/80.0167W 32.0000N/80.0167W 32.0000N/80.0333W 32.0833N/80.0333W 32.0833N/80.0500W 32.0000N/80.0500W 32.0000N/80.0667W 32.0833N/80.0667W 32.0833N/80.0833W 32.0000N/80.0833W 32.0000N/80.1000W 32.0833N/80.1000W 32.0833N/80.1167W 32.0000N/80.1167W KSAV
Then paste the output into Foreflight here:
(http://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/ag47/tomireland84/image_zpsf1af76b1.jpg)
Hope this helps.
Tom
Brilliant! It was worth paying $10 for the numbers app. :clap:
Users should keep in mind that this program equates 1 minute of longitude with 1nm. But in north America, it's slightly less. So your pattern will look stretched vertically. This is probably ok as CAP seems to allow this to simplify navigation and keep search areas within a grid system. But if you're doing a sector search, it would be optimal to keep all legs at true nautical mile.
Tom, great work. If you have the time, any chance you can add a toggle to keep all legs at true nautical mile?
I've also emailed foreflight and asked them to add this feature. They said they want to build it but have no delivery date. I'd encourage everyone in this forum email them and put the pressure on. The email link is in the app somewhere WingX already has this feature and had I known, I'd have gone with them.
The SARProAir app also has search patterns and it keeps all legs at true nm. But has no ability to import to foreflight.
Thanks for your Work, Tom.
Quote from: Dolphin Driver on January 02, 2013, 06:17:04 PM
Users should keep in mind that this program equates 1 minute of longitude with 1nm. But in north America, it's slightly less. So your pattern will look stretched vertically. This is probably ok as CAP seems to allow this to simplify navigation and keep search areas within a grid system. But if you're doing a sector search, it would be optimal to keep all legs at true nautical mile.
Tom, great work. If you have the time, any chance you can add a toggle to keep all legs at true nautical mile?
Thanks for the compliment.
I was thinking about this issue, I more or less have the solution upstairs but it'll take some time to apply to the spreadsheet. The trouble is, depending on your latitude the conversion you have to make from minute to nm varies... This means that in every search pattern the coordinates will have different conversions to compensate... I'll figure it out at some point! :)
Another detail to make you aware of, the headings will be based off true north as opposed to magnetic.
Quote from: Dolphin Driver on January 02, 2013, 06:17:04 PM
I've also emailed foreflight and asked them to add this feature. They said they want to build it but have no delivery date. I'd encourage everyone in this forum email them and put the pressure on. The email link is in the app somewhere WingX already has this feature and had I known, I'd have gone with them.
I talked with them also. Keep the pressure on!!
Cheers,
Tom.
You could probably do the same with a Google Drive spreadsheet and the Drive app (as opposed to the Numbers app)...I've been using it a lot, plus you could very quickly share it. You can take the spreadsheet offline as well and have it with you in the plane.
Except that for $10 you have an all encompassed solution usable when there's no interwebs. Once you've got the data entry down, you can put that stuff in pretty fast.
http://williams.best.vwh.net/avform.htm (http://williams.best.vwh.net/avform.htm)
I have found this to be very useful for navigation math.
Quote from: a2capt on January 03, 2013, 03:37:48 PM
Except that for $10 you have an all encompassed solution usable when there's no interwebs. Once you've got the data entry down, you can put that stuff in pretty fast.
The Google Spreadsheet is pretty comprehensive itself, and by clicking a little button, you have full offline access to the file, plus the ability to edit it seamlessly from multiple devices simultaneously.
Quote from: Robborsari on January 03, 2013, 05:29:53 PM
http://williams.best.vwh.net/avform.htm (http://williams.best.vwh.net/avform.htm)
I have found this to be very useful for navigation math.
Excellent Thanks!
Quote from: JeffDG on January 03, 2013, 07:08:48 PM
Quote from: a2capt on January 03, 2013, 03:37:48 PM
Except that for $10 you have an all encompassed solution usable when there's no interwebs. Once you've got the data entry down, you can put that stuff in pretty fast.
The Google Spreadsheet is pretty comprehensive itself, and by clicking a little button, you have full offline access to the file, plus the ability to edit it seamlessly from multiple devices simultaneously.
I didn't block or hide anything on the spreadsheet so feel free to alter/adapt it to other software.
Tom
Ok,
Now you can choose Minutes or Nautical Miles!!
https://www.dropbox.com/s/wa3t83uvgniuemg/SAR%20V02.2.numbers (https://www.dropbox.com/s/wa3t83uvgniuemg/SAR%20V02.2.numbers)
Enjoy :)
Tom,
It works great. Thanks for all your work. This will go a long way towards reducing workload during a demanding case.
re: tom's comment about true vs mag bearings.
i teach setting the dg to true vs mag any time a lat/lon based pattern is to be flown, because lat and lon are referenced to true north.
take ur regular parallel track search, for instance. i teach eyes looking outside the aircraft as much as possible, with glances down to the dg to insure the proper "true" heading is being flown, and infrequent glances to the gps to check and see how this heading is doing, in keeping us close to the desired line. i run the gps so that it is just showing lat and lon.
this way, as the course is reversed, the wind correction is the only correction needed to be applied to the proper course heading. for instance, winds out of the north may require a 4 degree crab angle to be alternatively added and subtracted on each leg. with a magnetically referenced dg, the (westerly, in our case) variation has to be added, and then the crab angle alternatively added and subtracted. this additional mental work to me is unnecessary.
i see no advantage to flying patterns with the dg set to magnetic north.
what do u think?
bill
Slightly away from the topic, but I'm considering whether to pay for Foreflight or WingX. I have WingX on my iPa(i)d Mini, but didn't get a lot of time to play with it during the 30-day test drive period.
My flying is ALL VFR, either in my 150 or in my Stits Playboy. I've seen comments that FF is not as capable for VFR as WingX.
Any comments about either?
Buzz:
Get the 30 day trail version of Foreflight and try it then decide for youself.
In our Aero Club the instructors are about evenly divided between the two. Both are outstanding platforms and deliver outstanding product. Both are pilot friendly, the 'Honchos' at both companies are easily approachable and responsive to user questions.
I have used both, like both, and recommend both. So in the end it will be your personal preference.
So back to the opening line, get the trial version of both, play with and fly with both, and then pick whichever one suits your needs best.
Okay, thanks. I was wondering if there was a clear winner, and I guess not.
BTW, anyone thinking about buying an iPa(i)d for a GPS, everything I've found is that the internal GPS is little more useful than an afterburner on a turtle. For about $100, you can get a good external GPS antenna which links with Bluetooth (or a jailbroken iPa(i)d can use GPS from an Android phone). This means that unless you want the model with the cellular connection, you can get the WiFi model and not have to pay for phone service.
The 16GB units will work, but you're going to be happier with at least 32GB.
Quote from: Buzz on January 14, 2013, 07:17:55 PMBTW, anyone thinking about buying an iPa(i)d for a GPS, everything I've found is that the internal GPS is little more useful than an afterburner on a turtle. For about $100, you can get a good external GPS antenna which links with Bluetooth
The internal GPS also sucks major battery power, disabling the internal GPS and switching to an external bluetooth GPS will give the tablet much longer battery life.
Quote from: Buzz on January 14, 2013, 07:17:55 PM
BTW, anyone thinking about buying an iPa(i)d for a GPS, everything I've found is that the internal GPS is little more useful than an afterburner on a turtle. For about $100, you can get a good external GPS antenna which links with Bluetooth (or a jailbroken iPa(i)d can use GPS from an Android phone). This means that unless you want the model with the cellular connection, you can get the WiFi model and not have to pay for phone service.
I bought the 16GB model with no 3G or GPS, so no cellular contract there. Instead, bought a Duel Electronics external GPS for the iPad and turned on my iPhone's WiFi hotspot. Much cheaper over time compared to buying a more expensive iPad and having a more expensive cell contract.
I bought a Samsung Galaxy 10.1 Android tablet. I buy month-to-month 3G service from Verizon for $20/month for 1GB of data, I can start/stop service any month, there's no contract. It works fantastic and the ability to get weather, check NOTAMS, process credit cards (I'm a CFI), check email, etc... is just perfect. With Avilution AviationMaps as my chart/GPS/flight planner (think Foreflight but for $5/month data updates), I love it.
With Tom Ireland's okay, here is an updated Numbers spreadsheet for SAR use with Foreflight.
A 5 pt star pattern had been requested and that has been added.
The Parallel Track pattern can now be calculated for any heading.
The Expanding Square now includes both cardinal direction option and diagonal option.
Enjoy!
https://www.dropbox.com/s/qbcp0ltflt9dg1k/SAR%20V03.0.numbers (https://www.dropbox.com/s/qbcp0ltflt9dg1k/SAR%20V03.0.numbers)
Great addition but the output result appears to be a creeping line search rather than a parallel track or grid search. The original speadsheet did a grid search. It would be good to have both a regular grid search as well as the creeping line search as both are useful tools.
Another useful tool would be the offset route search especially one that could search parallel to the route covering a section from point A to B out to 20 NM either side of the center line. Basically what you already have but going parallel to the route centerline rather than across it.
I've also found the output from these speadsheets work well in the Garmin Pilot app. The input is just a little different from ForeFlight in that you enter your departure and destination airport in the Active Flight Plan window and then paste the route coordinates in the Trip Planning window route line minus the airports.
No joy in WingX so far.
Keep up the good work as these make the flight apps very CAP useful.
Sorry about that. You're right of course. The original Parallel Track is back in along with the Creeping Line. I'll give some thought to the offset route. The problem there is going to be the calculation of the offset distance at the apex of each turn.
SAR V03.1
https://www.dropbox.com/s/pek5k31x03or2gc/SAR%20V03.1.numbers (https://www.dropbox.com/s/pek5k31x03or2gc/SAR%20V03.1.numbers)
Let me know of any problems, bug, suggestions.
Works well!
One of my guys was playing with the flight plan share function in ForeFlight and discovered that it is basically creating a URL that, if opened in the iPad, will launch ForeFlight and enter the route without having to cut and paste.
Example: foreflightmobile://maps/search q=APT@KDTO+33N/97.90063W+33N/98W+33N/98.09937W+33.05N/98.09937W+33.05N/97.90063W+33.1N/97.90063W+33.1N/98.09937W+33.15N/98.09937W+33.15N/97.90063W+33.2N/97.90063W+33.2N/98.09937W+33.25N/98.09937W+33.25N/97.90063W+33.3N/97.90063W+33.3N/98.09937W+33.35N/98.09937W+33.35N/97.90063W+33.4N/97.90063W+33.4N/98.09937W+APT@KGLE
Could you add a macro button in the Numbers sheet to to build the URL and launch it?
The whole route is appended/connected or strung along with + and it seems to work with any of the formats shown on page 23 of the Foreflight Pilot's Guide. LAT/LONGS can be entered as 33N/98.09937W, Airports are APT@xxxx = xxxx is the identifier like KDTO, VORs, Intersections and userdefined waypoints are entered as NAV@aaaa = aaaa is the name of the navaid.
If you change it to the example below it will open WingX but it won't accept the route as it seems WingX didn't implement that part of the query string. Will try to get it to work in Garmin Pilot if we can figure out what the query string is if they even support it.
wingxpro7://maps/search?q=APT@KDTO+33N/97.90063W+33N/98W+33N/98.09937W+33.05N/98.09937W+33.05N/97.90063W+33.1N/97.90063W+33.1N/98.09937W+33.15N/98.09937W+33.15N/97.90063W+33.2N/97.90063W+33.2N/98.09937W+33.25N/98.09937W+33.25N/97.90063W+33.3N/97.90063W+33.3N/98.09937W+33.35N/98.09937W+33.35N/97.90063W+33.4N/97.90063W+33.4N/98.09937W+APT@KGLE
Unfortunately, the iPad version of Numbers doesn't support macros. I can work on setting up an output format that can be copied and pasted
for WingX users. Would that format be as you provided? Would it have to include the "q="?
I need some help!
I'm setting up a Track Line Search flight planning module for Tom Ireland's SAR Worksheet but I
have no experience in either planning or flying that type of search pattern.
Since Numbers for iPad does not support macros, I can't set up a looping routine with variables,
so each waypoint has to be separately calculated.
What I need are suggestions as to how many turn points to include in the missing targets presumed
route and how many parallel tracks to include per sortie.
I realize the answer is more likely a function of time, distance to be covered, available fuel, crew
fatigue, bladder factor and any number of other variable. I'm looking more for real world average
numbers based on experience, but all suggestions would be appreciated.
I've been playing around with this, maybe I'm missing something obvious, is there any way to run the parallel track search to the south rather than north? It almost looks like you could click the cells to toggle the direction, but I'm not figuring it out.
Thanks.
Try entering the Spacing as a negative number. If that doesn't do it, let me know. BTW I'm going to post an update shortly that adds a Route Search module. It's being beta tested right now
Here is the latest update to the SAR Worksheet.
A Route Search module is now included and Degree converters have been modified to adjust for rounding errors.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/qn1nevrv2k9ipaw/SAR%20V04.1.numbers (https://www.dropbox.com/s/qn1nevrv2k9ipaw/SAR%20V04.1.numbers)
Enjoy.
In response to several requests various changes and additions have been made to the SAR worksheet. Here is the latest revision:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6yg31ucwbs66dwx/SAR%20V04.2.numbers (https://www.dropbox.com/s/6yg31ucwbs66dwx/SAR%20V04.2.numbers)
Hope it is helpful.
Many thanks for this application! The link for the later version reports the dropbox is empty. Would you consider reloading it so I can upgrade? The moderators should consider a sticky for this one.
ah, sweet! I've been using Foreflight with a Dual Bluetooth GPS (wi-fi only) for maybe a year or more. For a while I compared the accuracy to the panel mount and a Garmin 96C handheld. Not any diffrences to speak of. I did notice this weekend that when touching the Tac chart to get a point lat/long on my iPad that the value was rounded, and not good enough to mark a position. The Dual has good battery life, and I've had it on for up to six hours.
But this is too cool, really looks good. I got a funny look from someone when using Foreflight in a SAREX, too! This fills some of the gap created by the loss of search paterns in the G1000 and the G400/430 replacements for the GX55/60 boxes. Another note, for IFR, the Foreflight approach plates only scale-down so far. When comparing the display on approach with a G400, you can see the G400 is much more precise.
I heard someone said they're just gonna velcro their iPad o the panel and fly all their missions that way. :)
Try this link. Let me know if you still can't get to the file. I'll be happy to send it direct.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/2bw1a70peki20jd/SAR%20V04.31.numbers (https://www.dropbox.com/s/2bw1a70peki20jd/SAR%20V04.31.numbers)
All of the links to the file seem to be broken. Could you please re-post a link or send me the file directly? Thank you!
Rumour has it that ForeFlight 5.4 will have CAP stuff...