Discussion of Moving CAP To Air Force Reserve Command

[abdsp51]

All three are important and there are some squadrons where some aspects of our missions are just not available for them.

[lordmonar]

I feel better about this discussion now...was afraid I was going to start a riot. LOL!

Anyhow, I actually think the split would have the opposite effect on membership...I think with focused marketing we could have a net increase in participation in each organization long-term. In the short term, I agree about there being a significant number of squadrons shutdown or drastically modified, but I argue that this might not be a bad thing. While my experience lies in a particularly large wing and can't speak for the how the rest of the country may vary, I can say that something like 10 to 20 percent regular participation from both cadets and seniors alike is not uncommon and that ES participation of cadets has been fairly limited to training and exercises with them only very rarely participating in something real. Unless the squadron has custody of an aircraft either full or part time, their focus is almost exclusively on Cadet programs anyhow.

Well.....at some point you have to understand that once split.......they are two seperate orgainsations.  We already have a built in split between ES and CP in the form of senior and cadet squadrons.  Those who want to focus on just ES can join or form Senior Squadrons and those who want to focus on just CP can form Cadet squadrons.   Splitting into two organisations would kill the composite squadrons.   It would remove ALL ES access from the cadets.  It would remove all access to O-rides from the cadets.  It would remove access to all those CAP vehicles from the cadets.

I see CAP as suffering an identity crisis of sorts, with many outsiders confused or misinformed about what we do. Heck, I think that many members around here are confused and misinformed too. Cadet programs has become the marketing tool of choice for the organization, and why not it's a big part of the work that's done, but I that ends up hurting our efforts to bring in quality people for ES-only. Just look at our public facing website, you have to read closely and click on something to figure out anything about ES because CP dominates. Seniors involved in CP would still participate in CP, I don't think that there would be a mass-exodus there. Furthermore, I don't believe cadets would drop out or decide not to join because of a lack of ES (at least not around here, we can't get them to care about ES because they're too busy with other stuff).

That's a markeing and education problem.....not an organisational problem.  Remember that your area of CAP is not all of CAP.  Some cadet and composite squadrons have a strong cadet presence in ES.  The question to ask is how does the ES mission affect YOUR cadet program?  Are you loosing cadets becasue you are doing too much ES?  Stop doing ES.  It is not requried for the cadet program.  If your composite squadron is focusing too much on ES and not enough CP......split off and form you own cadet squadron and go it alone....or better yet ask wing CP and wing CC to help educate your commander on how to better balance the two missions.

As far as ES goes, the seniors who enjoy supporting that would likely need to consolidate into fewer units. The organization would have to be a bit more strategic in their placement.

I heard someone say that ES is the unique item that sets us apart from other cadet programs, I argue that the aerospace aspect is the unique part, because cadets around here don't do a great deal of ES (YMMV).

lots of organisations have AE as the core center.  Young eagles, Air Explorers, and AFJROTC just to name three.  CAP is the only organisation where cadets can participate directly in ES MISSIONS.....that is real world SAR and DR activities.  That has always been our big advantage over AFJROTC.

There is nothing about this hypothetical that limits either organization from supporting the other (ex. o-rides, AE, ES training/exercises).

No.....just like there is nothing about CAP that limits us form supporting the BSA, Red Cross, Salvation Army, PLO or any other organisation.  But beware your unintentional consequences........once split.....the two organisations can/will drift apart to the point where they don't even talk to each other.  Just look at BSA and GSA.....at one time they were almost one organisation....but over time they hardly have any contact with each other at the unit level.

This would improve the ability to associate more closely with more appropriate USAF commands (if that even matters at this point) that make more sense for each program, potentially improving working relationships with each.

Won't have any affect on the ES side of thing associateing more closely with othe USAF commands.   We work just find with 1st AF and ACC just fine....even if our money and oversight comes from AETC.

I think it would reduce the bitter battles over which is more important. Many groups down here focust almost exclusively on CP, and couldn't care less about ES, and others its the other way around. This leaves subordinate units to fend for themselves one way or the other already. Frustration reigns, participation is weak, and membership turnover is horrendous.

I don't know what bitter battles you are talking about....but it won't help out......it simply means that there will be some new organisations call the AF Cadet Corps and AF Auxillary.....who both belong to the USAF.....neither one will talk to the other.....just as CAP hardly ever talks to the other military AUX's. (MARS and CGAUX).

The CP org can focus on creating a military style program for their cadets,

We got that now.

while the ES can drop the act and concentrate on building a more focused and better skilled force of volunteers.

I don't quite know what you are alluding to here........but....are you suggesting that CAP's cadet program is somehow interfereing with the professional development and ES skills of the rest of CAP?   I'm gonna have to call the BS flag on this one. 

Marketing for ES program would certainly improve, since all I see right now is pictures of kids in uniforms and talk about encampment or other activities. If I'm not looking to participate in CP, and all I see is cadets on marketing materials, then I'm going to move on to something else with my energy (Angel Flight, CGAux, etc.) unless I already know about what CAP is about from other people.

I don't see any outside marketing.......so I don't know how splitting into two organisations is going to somehow magicly make the successor to the CAP ES organisation somehow better then the current CAP marketers.

Also.......you know splitting the oraganisations now makes you have two sets of over head.  Two wing commanders and staff, two BoGs, Two NHQ staffs.......that means you are first cutting the manpower in half and at the same time building a whole new command infrasture.