Spring 2011 NEC Agenda

[Ned]

And it returns to committee to specifically consider logos and branding.  Goal is to reduce rather than increase.

[JC004]

And it returns to committee to specifically consider logos and branding.  Goal is to reduce rather than increase.

:clap:  :clap:  :clap:  :clap:  :clap:  :clap:  :clap:  :clap:  :clap:  :clap:

Victory!

What, no comments on the web stream?  You guys are unnaturally quiet.  Makes me nervious.   

People were quiet because they were busy poking their NEC members with sharp sticks.  Others were hiding in case they needed to revolt, should they have approved it.

[WESSginger]

We both know that this will do nothing. Its going to pass because of the way it is worded. The NEC will vote yes because "optional" wont hurt anyone....right? 

The NEC also made the Wing Patch optional, but try to find a Wing that doesn't require the wear on BDU's

Alabama wing does not require you to wear the Wing Patch.

[RADIOMAN015]

OH no......the triangle thingy is being discussed

And they are discussing the very points that have been raised here -

• We already have three or so logos
  
  
• They are even using the word "branding" in the discussion
  
  
•   Why should it be optional?  Should we use and stick to a single choice?
  
  
• Compare this to the updated and current ARC and YMCA lgogs.
  
  
• Shouldn't we have a "non-military style" logo available when we partner/outreach to educational organizations in AE and STEM work?  IOW, different logos for different constiutencies.
  
  

It's actually a reasoned discussion.

Well before the video feed frozen permanently the National HQ Staff member did make what I think was an important observation -- It does differentiate us because our command patch is in the same shape and general format as every other military as well as federal agency uses, so you really have to get very close to the individual to see it is CAP.  I would agree with him on that.  HOWEVER, when you start to talk about one mandatory patch/logo pin, you are talking a lot of money to get this changed over for the entire membership and logistically can our vendor even support it

Why not just have it as an option for a few years and see IF it really makes any difference     Frankly the reason CAP isn't known well is because we lack an appropriate public relations plan being properly implemented to various target markets (which CAP seems to ignore in ANY of the marketing/public relations plans).   I also think on disaster relief and other missions the use of military uniforms (especially BDU's) causes public confusion as to who we are.   Maybe we would be better offer ensuring that the CAP ES patch "The Dog with the headphones on" should be mandatory on all Blue & Regular BDU's just as a start.  This would be a good differentiation to me.
RM

       

[Smokey]

That dog patch has got to go....and as usual radioman, you once again show how you feel about our realtionship to anything military....we know already..OK?

[RADIOMAN015]

That dog patch has got to go....and as usual radioman, you once again show how you feel about our realtionship to anything military....we know already..OK?

CIVIL Air Patrol members are not military members and the uniforms need to CLEARLY indicate this.  The Dog ES Patch is a VERY good differentiation (In fact I'm going to buy one and put it on my Blue BDU's).   Unfortunately, the use of the current military uniforms really doesn't differentiate us enough.

I am sure we can fight about this all day long with pros and cons, BUT somehow in whatever we do there's got to be a way for people to immediately see we are CIVIL AIR PATROL, and not ROTC, AF, AFR, or ANG or another military service, sort of like the Red Cross & The Salvation Army :angel:
RM

[Spaceman3750]

That dog patch has got to go....and as usual radioman, you once again show how you feel about our realtionship to anything military....we know already..OK?

CIVIL Air Patrol members are not military members and the uniforms need to CLEARLY indicate this.  The Dog ES Patch is a VERY good differentiation (In fact I'm going to buy one and put it on my Blue BDU's).   Unfortunately, the use of the current military uniforms really doesn't differentiate us enough.

I am sure we can fight about this all day long with pros and cons, BUT somehow in whatever we do there's got to be a way for people to immediately see we are CIVIL AIR PATROL, and not ROTC, AF, AFR, or ANG or another military service, sort of like the Red Cross & The Salvation Army :angel:
RM

So then go join the Red Cross & Salvation Army :angel:. They need good volunteers, and they both wear red!

[Eclipse]

sort of like the Red Cross & The Salvation Army

First, there is no other organization like the Civil Air Patrol, we are unique in our charter and capabilities, so comparisons to organizations that occasionally perform work in the same space as us is inappropriate, second, the ARC and SA have less tolerance for empty shirts and people who ignore their training
requirements than CAP.

[JC004]

...
Why not just have it as an option for a few years and see IF it really makes any difference     Frankly the reason CAP isn't known well is because we lack an appropriate public relations plan being properly implemented to various target markets (which CAP seems to ignore in ANY of the marketing/public relations plans).
...

Optional and additional logos are CONTRARY to effective marketing plans.

[RADIOMAN015]

sort of like the Red Cross & The Salvation Army

First, there is no other organization like the Civil Air Patrol, we are unique in our charter and capabilities, so comparisons to organizations that occasionally perform work in the same space as us is inappropriate, second, the ARC and SA have less tolerance for empty shirts and people who ignore their training
requirements than CAP.

I think the Red Cross is happy with whomever they can get to volunteer (they are always looking for volunteers in my area).   Again with CAP, do people join CAP because they want to LOOK LIKE THEY ARE IN THE MILITARY, or do they join CAP because of CAP's stated missions/objectives    You know as well as I that many of our missions can be performed with a CAP logo golf shirt with NO mission impairment.  Surely when one gets in the field, appropriate field gear is needed (which by the way is NOT cotton CAP BDU type uniforms/field jackets which in fact are a danger in most severe weather environments).  Frankly maybe the simplest differentiation is having the  triangle thing on an orange reflective vest (which meets the new safety standards)  and just wear the safest clothing for the environment, whatever that would be.
RM   

[SarDragon]

That dog patch has got to go....and as usual radioman, you once again show how you feel about our realtionship to anything military....we know already..OK?

OK, what's your idea of an acceptable ES patch? The T-34/Beech is OK, but it, IMHO, is even more dated than the dog. I am not in favor of ditching the ES patch completely, because it's the only way people in ES get to advertise that fact.

[EMT-83]

... I think the Red Cross is happy with whomever they can get to volunteer (they are always looking for volunteers in my area)...

Actually, ARC has very strict training requirements for their volunteers who, by the way, must undergo a background investigation not unlike ours.

Don't confuse a "spontaneous volunteer" who may be of limited use during an immediate crisis situation, with a trained ARC volunteer.

[Spaceman3750]

... I think the Red Cross is happy with whomever they can get to volunteer (they are always looking for volunteers in my area)...

Actually, ARC has very strict training requirements for their volunteers who, by the way, must undergo a background investigation not unlike ours.

Don't confuse a "spontaneous volunteer" who may be of limited use during an immediate crisis situation, with a trained ARC volunteer.

Actually, ARC's is a bit more thorough than ours. Ours looks for felonies and child abuse type stuff only. ARC does a full background check, runs a credit report, and checks references.

[Eclipse]

That dog patch has got to go....and as usual radioman, you once again show how you feel about our realtionship to anything military....we know already..OK?

OK, what's your idea of an acceptable ES patch? The T-34/Beech is OK, but it, IMHO, is even more dated than the dog. I am not in favor of ditching the ES patch completely, because it's the only way people in ES get to advertise that fact.

Why do they need to advertise?

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I am sure we can fight about this all day long with pros and cons, BUT somehow in whatever we do there's got to be a way for people to immediately see we are CIVIL AIR PATROL, and not ROTC, AF, AFR, or ANG or another military service, sort of like the Red Cross & The Salvation Army :angel:
RM

RM, that seems to be your quest in life, to get us to "know" we are CIVIL Air Patrol.

There's only one problem...

WE ALREADY KNOW.

If the general public has any questions, they can ASK, and often do.  I have explained CAP to everyone from the general public to military veterans (most of which had heard of CAP, they just didn't know we still existed) to law enforcement officers (again, many of whom were already familiar with CAP).

I had an opportunity to do just that this past week.  I was on my way home from a unit meeting and I stopped for a quick bite to eat.  I was wearing my CSU, which I will wear up until 11:59:59 31 December 2011.  I was in and out in 15 minutes, and as I was leaving, the cleaning crew came up to me before I got into my car.  They said, "we've been trying to figure out which service you're in."  I told them I was a Captain in the Civil Air Patrol, the volunteer Auxiliary of the United States Air Force, and a little about our mission.

Their only comment had nothing to do with uniforms, "wannabe" status, etc.

All they said was "man, you should get paid for that!"

As to your supposed "reasons" why people join CAP ("to look like they're in the military"), is that the result of quantifiable research on your part or your own suppositions based on your own distaste for the quasi-military aspects of CAP, which have been there a heck of a lot longer than you and I have?

The day if, and when, CAP adopts your "scarlet-letter" shoulder marks and nameplates, I'm outta here.

[rmcmanus]

I back the others RM.  For most activities, CAP allows individuals who dislike military-style uniforms to wear those that are more "civilian-like."  You are certainly entitled to your opinion, and this forum supports that, but the fact remains that you continually restate your dislike for the military relationship of CAP at every opportunity; regardless of the topic under discussion. 

[AirDX]

the ARC and SA have less tolerance for empty shirts and people who ignore their training requirements than CAP.

+1

[SarDragon]

That dog patch has got to go....and as usual radioman, you once again show how you feel about our realtionship to anything military....we know already..OK?

OK, what's your idea of an acceptable ES patch? The T-34/Beech is OK, but it, IMHO, is even more dated than the dog. I am not in favor of ditching the ES patch completely, because it's the only way people in ES get to advertise that fact.

Why do they need to advertise?

Why not?

Almost everyone else gets to wear something on their 'mission' uniform advertising their jobs and accomplishments. Why can't the non-aircrew, non-comm  ES folks do the same?

[cap235629]

That dog patch has got to go....and as usual radioman, you once again show how you feel about our realtionship to anything military....we know already..OK?

OK, what's your idea of an acceptable ES patch? The T-34/Beech is OK, but it, IMHO, is even more dated than the dog. I am not in favor of ditching the ES patch completely, because it's the only way people in ES get to advertise that fact.

Why do they need to advertise?

Why not?

Almost everyone else gets to wear something on their 'mission' uniform advertising their jobs and accomplishments. Why can't the non-aircrew, non-comm  ES folks do the same?

isn't the GT Badge enough?

[Spaceman3750]

That dog patch has got to go....and as usual radioman, you once again show how you feel about our realtionship to anything military....we know already..OK?

OK, what's your idea of an acceptable ES patch? The T-34/Beech is OK, but it, IMHO, is even more dated than the dog. I am not in favor of ditching the ES patch completely, because it's the only way people in ES get to advertise that fact.

Why do they need to advertise?

Why not?

Almost everyone else gets to wear something on their 'mission' uniform advertising their jobs and accomplishments. Why can't the non-aircrew, non-comm  ES folks do the same?

isn't the GT Badge enough?

I'm actually way more proud of my GTL badge than that stupid ES patch.